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Ryan Tannehill Top 10 qb?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Barnwell usually has a good pulse on our team but until pigs fly then there is no chance we move on from Tannehill with Gase here. Much more likely both Tannehill and Cutler are on the roster than neither next season.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Other than dates and cap numbers virtually EVERTYHING barnwell said is wrong
     
  3. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I got to agree with Fin D on this one. He pretty much throws his argument out the window when he says Tannehill hasn't grown. Its fine if your argument is that after his growth he still might not be a franchise QB. But to deny that he has grown??? That just seems laughable to me.
     
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  4. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    If the team is going to stick with Tannehill, it needs to seriously assess whether it should keep Suh, because Suh’s effect on the pass defense is minimal, and his salary prohibits the team from improving the pass defense enough to complement Tannehill like it would need to.

    As I said above, if you’re going to have a quarterback who functions roughly in the average range, you’d better have one of the league’s best past defenses, and you can’t do that when one of your defensive tackles, who has a minimal effect on the pass defense, is soaking up all of the defense’s money.

    That’s a very stuck situation.
     
  5. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    I think it matters less whether he has grown, and more the level to which he has grown. The level to which he has grown determines how you need to complement him as a team.

    If he had grown to Aaron Rodgers’s level, for example, you wouldn’t need to have any more than an average pass defense.
     
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  6. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    in Suh's defense the guy has played 98% of snaps and he is doubled team on pretty much 99% of them so to say he has minimal is a little unfair to him, I don't know anyone in the nfl who is dbl teamed more than him and succeeds at a high rate. if we get rid of suh I think our pass rush would be horrible because now wake would get double teamed even more than he gets chipped out the back field as it is.

    you are very right its a very sticky situation!!!
     
  7. DHitchens

    DHitchens Active Member

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    I would agree with that if the team hadn’t had one of the worst pass defenses in the league this year. Certainly it can continue to have one of the worst pass defenses in the league without Suh.
     
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  8. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    someone's opinion is not wrong or right man, you need to realize that and stop thinking the way you think is the only way and that's correct, my opinion is in agreement with him RT is average, if you think hes is a super bowl caliber qb then fine, but to label someone as wrong based of opinion is sad. he writes for espn and we write on a blog tell me which one is more credible!! its fine to not agree with hime or anyone else but be opened minded a lil.
     
  9. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    oh ya your right, I really think it has become so accustomed in Miami that we can get to the qb with 4 guys, but in this day in age its rare for teams to have a pass rush like we have had in the past 10+ years.

    that's why im glad Burke decided to start blitzing more.
     
  10. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I think maybe he meant grown as if RT hasnt shown he is a pro bowl or superbowl caliber guy? not as in his game, his game has grown but I still do not think in my opinion from his 1st 2 years or the last 3 years has changed that he is an avg qb not super bowl or pro bowl caliber, could he have a good yr and get there who knows we will see i guess, like I have said 100000 times I hope he proves me wrong and all of you right, but I don't see it.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This has nothing to do with my opinion. Thill has improved objectively. Miami is not super bold in FA. The dolphins are sticking with thill in 2018. Numerous people believe he will take the next step.

    That's every major "fact" he brought up.
     
  12. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    weren't we bold last year with the Maxwell and all that and with the suh signing? a belief is an opinion, like I said before his numbers improved but maybe he thinks as in the super bowl or pro bowl caliber.

    Im pretty sure RT is starting as well I just seen it and thought it was interesting.
     
  13. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, would it really kill them not to constantly introduce him as the ex-A&M receiver - he's played at QB longer than he has as a receiver. I know that ESPN like to bash us but come on......

    Also, the Pro Bowl is a popularity competition, hardly a surprise that he has never got the nod when ESPN bash him constantly
     
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  14. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, he's nursing a knee injury, which would certainly limit your pass rushing - Parker, take note, he's still playing & playing to a high level
     
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  15. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Especially as the knock on him coming out was that he wasn't very bright - he enjoyed sticking it to the teams that passed on him!
     
  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I mostly agree except Flacco. That team was average all the way around. Run game, defense were average in the regular season.

    That said I've always stated that Tanny is good enormously though that you keep him, but not so good you forego keeping an eye on an upgrade.
     
  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What did Philbin and Lazor fix in 2014 when Tannehill went on that similar run? Audible? Nope. Commitment to run? Hell no. Oline?

    He had a great run in 2014, after a bad start. He had a great run in 2016, after a bad start.

    What is the least common denominator in these two instances?
     
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Ummm...that you're a Brady/Pats fan? lol

    Seriously though, are you claiming that RT can be top 10 even when put into a crappy situation? His 2014 and 2015 seasons were nearly identical. The biggest difference was in 2015 his comp% was 6 points lower. And if you consider that in 2016 his season was nearly identical to the previous 2 I think we can make a case for RT playing well over nearly a full three year period. And he did so with three different coaches.

    Also, in 2014 when RT had his "bad start" he faced the 8th, 4th, and 2nd ranked defenses 2 of which belonged to the Bills and Pats and 1 to KC. To get more in depth, Brady had a worse passer rating than RT that year when they played KC.
     
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  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    A new article from Barnwell on ESPN. I generally consider him to be well versed in general NFL knowledge with a good head for stats and practical application. This was a long article which probably encompassed half the league in what could be an unprecedented year for QB movement.
    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...k-dominoes-players-change-teams-offseason-why

    The following is the relevant bit on THill and Miami.

    He also mentions Cousins and Bradford as potential targets if we were to move on, neither of which I would be completely sold on personally.

    I think his analysis though, mirrors what a lot of posters on this board feel as well. I would include myself in that. THill is ... ok. Just ok. Perhaps he was on the verge of a big step up, but that doesn't really matter now. There is no telling what a full year off plus the injuries will do. There is no guarantee he will outplay anyone else. We can quibble over specific odds, but meh. I also would guess that Barnwell is not locally plugged in, so I get that local sources here are reporting THill is still the guy. However, I don't see any reason that could all be a smokescreen.

    If I had to bet money, I'd probably put it on THill as the starter. If push comes to shove though and we really do have a good shot at a player with a higher ceiling, I think we would be foolish to at least not heavily investigate.
     
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  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I think all teams are constantly on the look out for their next franchise QB. All of them.

    That being said, not being able to guarantee RT will outplay anyone else is a non sequitur. There is literally no guarantee that any player in the NFL will play a certain way. Ever. Never has been and never will be.

    Now, is there a high chance that Rodgers will come back next year and play great. Yes. Wilson? Yes.

    If you apply those same standards to RT there is a lot better chance that he plays better than a rookie or even any of the FA QB's next season.
     
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  21. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Between him and Tannehill and Alex Smith the days of giving up on young quarterbacks early should be gone.

    He was literally thought of as the worst quarterback in the NFL last year now he is playing on some stupid level
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Then you're disagreeing with Fin D and saying, he didn't need commitment to run game, medium oline and audibles since he's been similar the last 3 years he's played? I'm not saying anything about Tanny in particular, but Fin D's position he needed those groceries.

    You disagree with him, so we don't have a debate here.
     
  23. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's got a 89 rating, *insert The Wolf's pulp fiction quote of not starting to give each other fellatio just yet.*

    The only thing he's improved since 2015 is he's throwing less INTs. Which is huge. But he's being asked to do a lot less than the last two years.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    INTs, pocket movement and aggressiveness on the deep balls...I think there's three things that really came together last year.
     
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  25. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Don't flip this around. lol...

    You've been very critical of RT until last season. And I even thought that he played his best last season. However, cbrad pointed out that last season wasn't his best..stats-wise at least. So, I looked into his last three seasons. 2014 and 2016 were really close. In 2015 there was a little drop off, but that was mainly due to his comp%.

    Saying that, RT playing at an above average level (average passer rating being ~87), overall, over the last three seasons means a lot.

    And I don't disagree with FinD. Over the last 8 games and before he was hurt, RT played at a top 10 level. Which is better than above average.
     
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  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    "an"

    And if you look at his last 8 games he's posted a 120 passer rating or higher 4 times. he had 2 stinkers in there, but the other two were decent.

    So 4 elite games
    2 average-above average
    2- crap


    He's playing really well.
     
  27. The Finest

    The Finest Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dolphins are one of the least aggressive teams in FA

    Except for that one time in 2013
     
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  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Suh wasn't last year. There was nothing BOLD about the Maxwell trade.

    I'm asking you politely to stop telling me what an opinion is as if I didn't know.

    Barnwell, made statements that he passed off as facts. Those facts were wrong. All I did was say he got them wrong. Phins_to_Win said it best:

     
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  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You mean the first year that he had real WRs, with Juice and Wallace actually playing well?

    I mean I guess he should have done better with Hartline, Bess, Legdoodoo.

    Then on top of it, as we all know, teams got wise to Lazor's offense.
     
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  30. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Hopefully Lamar Jackson ends up falling to us in the draft...
     
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  31. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Again, let's not start fellating each other just yet. He's playing better. He's not playing on another level for any extended amount of time. He's had 3 great games in a row. That followed absolute stink bombs. Anyone can play out of their minds for 3-4 games. Blake has shown he can revert to an absolute terrible QB in just one offseason.
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So now it's not just the big 3:

    1 - commitment to run game
    2 - better than terrible oline
    3 - audible

    None of which (maybe oline, I'll go back and look) were there in 2014.

    So now it's: Surprise of Lazor's offense, and good WRs.

    Your hypothesis is falling apart.

    I wonder what he needs next year!
     
  33. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    then why did you say it was based on facts he didn't list anything all he said which I would assume is his opinion based of this sentence
    "He's good enough to win games with, but after 77 starts as a pro, has anyone ever gotten the sense that the 2012 first-round pick is about to make it to the Pro Bowl or win a championship?" was there any facts no, so its an opinion which you combated with your opinion.

    what am I missing or what did you read into?
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What are you talking about?

    Ok. When Thill first got here, the problem wasn't offensive line. the problem was he had the worst WR group in league (possibly in history). Go back and look, you'll see I was saying EXACTLY that then. by 2014, we had Landry and Wallace. We also had a decent oline. In 2015, our line went to crap. As I said then and since, when a line is that bad, you need to give your QB tools to combat it. Instead of giving him tools like a commitment to the run game and being able to audible out of a play, they made sure we passed more and couldn't audible so the defense (by then) knew what was coming.

    Again, you guys can argue this until you're blue in the face, but it has literally been proven to be true.
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    ok.
    I've already explained this to you, but I'll do it again. I hope this will resolve the confusion.

    "He also hasn't really grown much as a pro, having settled into a range as an average quarterback from 2014-16."
    This is incorrect. He has objectively improved his game every year.

    He's good enough to win games with, but after 77 starts as a pro, has anyone ever gotten the sense that the 2012 first-round pick is about to make it to the Pro Bowl or win a championship?
    This is incorrect. Numerous people think he was about to take the next step and still do next year.

    A more conservative organization would stick with Tannehill, but the Dolphins are as aggressive as any team in football when going after talent,
    This is incorrect. We are far from an aggressive team in FA or the draft.

    and if they sense an opportunity in free agency or in the 2018 draft, it would hardly be a surprise to see them push all-in for a new franchise quarterback.
    This is incorrect. It would be a huge surprise to see them go for a new franchise QB.
     
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  36. mor911

    mor911 pooping

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    I would be super surprised if they waste draft picks on a QB. Unless they are going for a Brady with a lucky late pick. There are far bigger holes for high drafts than QB.
     
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  37. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    and I agreed they probably wouldn't move from RT its was a scenario writing piece by him, but you stated it was based on facts and nothing was said that was factual and saying "Numerous people think he was about to take the next step and still do next year." is an opinion not a fact so therefore yours is an opinion as well as his. which is why I said your opinion isn't right or wrong neither is his or mine, its just an opinion.
     
  38. mor911

    mor911 pooping

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    I think he was trying to explain why that writer sucks.
     
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  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The bold is not true. Here's what i said:

     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I can see them using a 2nd or a 3rd if someone they love drops.
     

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