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Pittsburgh NOT with the dagger!!!!! :(

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    NE with 1 min left go ahead with TD and 2pt conversion.

    Steelers with MASSIVE 2 pass drive for a TD.

    If the conversion is good they're up by 4.

    30+ seconds left...


    CRAP they might change the ruling on the TD. No catch. Which is crap... Stupid catching/running rules.
     
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  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Overturned. Incomplete pass.

    Crap rule.
     
  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Patriots intercepted third attempt.

    Game over.

    How depressing.
     
  4. shadokp

    shadokp Active Member

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    How often does this seem to happen? I hope Pitt can bump them out of the playoffs. I will not watch another Superbowl with the Patriots in in it.
     
  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Gronk plays MN and we get killed.
     
  6. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Anyone see what a franchise qb can do? Look at SF now
     
  7. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    Made me sick watching that. Against any other team, ANY OTHER TEAM apart from that set of cheating 'C U Next TuesdayS' and that's a touchdown. Fk's sake, can this league not bend over any further for these t**ts? I don't think that I can hate that team any more if I tried.
     
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  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, SF is now 3-0 with Garoppolo. His overall rating this year looks like it's at 97.95. If he keeps this up, then it's another QB we missed on.
     
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  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well.. technically the refs seem to have gotten it right:
    https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/completing-a-catch/
     
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  10. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    I thought that carry the ball to the ground crap was only on out of bounds catches. So you're not allowed to reach for the goal line unless you've become a runner?

    Wow at NE winning on another BS technicality.
     
  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I disagree completely. He made the catch mid-air and went down to his knees as he hauled the ball into his torso. Then he made a football move extending for the endzone.....that was technically a fumble, not an incompletion. His INITIAL contact with the ground had the ball secured with both hands....it was his second contact that caused the ball to shift.

    I'm sorry, they got that wrong. Bad, bad call handing the dirt-bag Pats another crown.
     
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    This is exactly what the rule should be. If a catcher demonstrates a secure grip on the ball with control then it's a catch, anything after that is a fumble. Higher reward, higher risk, and falls completely in line with the rules as a runner. It's that 'turning into a runner' crap that confuses the matter. You catch it with your hands, it's caught. Anything after that is a fumble.
     
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  13. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Edit: Never mind. Deleted my post. Not worth it... I’ll just use the block list again....
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  14. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah I agree with Galant that that's what the rule SHOULD be, but you read the quote I posted (note the "until AFTER initial contact with the ground" part) and that's not the actual rule. As IdrA said.. it's a BS technicality, but from a purely technical perspective they got it right because the receiver didn't demonstrate control of the ball after he hit the ground.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know....the way I read it, if you hit the ground (as he did with his knees), he has to maintain control throughout the "catch". I say he did that as he pulled it into his chest. I think the extension reaching for the goal line was a separate act, a football move, which wouldn't fall under this rule since he was bringing the ball inward as he hit the ground.

    Maybe I'm wrong by letter of the law, but I shouldn't be wrong here and I think most NFL fans would agree. He caught the ball, went to a knee and then made a football move...that's a freaking TD.

    Here's another way to look at it. Let's say the Pats defender had touched him before he extended...which means he was down by contact and the "football move" extending for the endzone doesn't count. Now is it a catch? I don't see how you can say it isn't. And if the first part of that is a catch, it's impossible for extra actions to change it into a non-catch.
     
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  16. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/1...touchdown-replay-overturned-steelers-patriots

    "The ball definitely touches the ground at the end of the play. That’s clear. Less clear is whether James had otherwise grasped and controlled it by that point. It’s made cloudier because we don’t see the ball hit the ground while it’s wiggling.

    While we’re on the subject of really specific NFL rules, the league requires that there be indisputable video evidence to overturn calls on the field. You don’t have to work that hard to dispute that James lost control, and that’s even if we take it as a given that the ball’s movements in his hands were because it touched the ground.

    This clause in the NFL rulebook doesn’t make the replay officials’ case any easier to make: “If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided that the player continues to maintain control.”

    The NFL’s explanation doesn’t address uncertainty around whether the ball hit the ground while it was moving in James’ hands. It also doesn’t explain why James couldn’t be in control of the ball as it touches the ground at the end of the play...

    There’s a perfectly good argument that James didn’t catch the ball.
    It boils down to rules being rules. Even though James had the ball and reached for the goal line, he didn’t possess it through the catch by the NFL’s definition.

    But, rules being rules, the NFL’s replay staff also needs to be certain that either contact with the ground knocked the ball out of James’ possession, or that he didn’t possess it when it touched the ground at the end.

    There are so many disputable things here that “indisputable” is impossible."
     
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  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I agree...the ball is allowed to move when he hits the ground, the question is if he retains possession without the ground's help. It's all a very grey area and I think there's no excuse for that. A catch is one of the most basic concepts of football. There should never be any doubt on what defines a catch and I think their rules only make it worse.
     
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  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    To me that’s as a TD catch. Not just because it would have likely beaten NE but because he caught the ball. Turned up field. His knees goes down untouched and he reaches across the line. TD. Right then and there. The fact he goes to the ground and the ground “causes “ an incompletion is ridiculous to me. Especially since it’s well after he turns, his knee hits, still untouched and reaches across the line for the TD.
     
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  19. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    Anyone see the TD the jets had taken away early in the year? Austin Sefarian-Jenkins reached across the front corner of the end zone for a TD but they ruled he lost control of the ball he had within his 2 hands and arms at his chest. But the ball moved a bit so they were able to take the TD away and call it a touch back and award the cheatriots the ball and save them 7. The following week their opponent also had a TD taken away controversially. This is the third time they have benefited from some interpretation helping to decide a game. Makes you wonder.
    Frees up some time for other stuff though. I won't feel compelled to watch the NFL playoffs or SB. Plus, the cheats can likely get #6 and hopefully #7 next year allowing for all kinds of Lance Armstrong comparisons!
     
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  20. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. At the very least, you can’t reach for the end zone with the ball in your hands if you don’t first make a catch. If he didn’t have control he wouldn’t have been able to get the ball across the line.
     
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  21. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    The obvious hate and animosity most of you have for the Patriots is so obvious in your posts its not even funny.
    The ball moved when it hit the ground as his left hand also came off the ball.
    INCOMPLETE- without any doubt.
    Pittsburgh has noone to blame but themselves.
    They could have easily kicked the field goal to tie the game - instead they chose to go for the win.
    Gutsy call that failed
    With home field thru out the playoffs at stake Tomlin definately has balls.
    And once again the Patriots win the division
    Which you guys just can't stand
     
  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    By the letter of the rule, it was not a catch. By every other reasonable measure it clearly was. It's Dez Bryant all over again. The NFL absolutely butchered this rule and they will change it this offseason. It does not behoove them in any fashion to keep it.
     
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  23. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The absolute testicles of you to come on here and talk this way is laughable. My guess is that if Pittsburgh won, you would be a Steeler fan today and sticking it PATS fans. You come on here now passing yourself off as a loyal fan of ANY team is sickening...and wholly despicable. Which you guys can't stand? which guys? Actual loyal fans of teams?!! Of all the millions of football fans in the world, the last one....the absolute last one who should have the right to say anything to anyone about THEIR FOOTBALL TEAM IS YOU!!! And sadly , nobody is even close to be second to last on that list.
     
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  24. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Which part of this is not completely rational. They are not just hated by Dolfans but we are among the top haters and rightfully so. It is the nature of the game. If we had won 5 lombardi's in the last 1.5 decades everyone would hate us too, especially with all the illegal and/questionable BS the Patsies have done. Deflategate, Spygate etc. Not to mention the favor they seem to have in every crucial moment of playing with the officials. I still remember the night it all started, in the snow against Oakland, the not seen in generations (if ever?) tuck rule...
     
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  25. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    if that was not a catch then, a runner/qb who reaches over the goal line should have to maintain possession which they do not a lot of times once its crossed its a td. the knee going down was the main thing to look at, once the knee went down he turned and reached the ball towards the goal line, which I would say is an intended "football move" so if he has to maintain that then Brady can no longer qb sneak jump over the pile reach out and bring the ball back and has to maintain possession its is pretty much the same thing to me. the refs literally have their hand in too many games, anybody watching football including romo knew it was a td, then after 43 slow motion actions its all of a sudden not a catch. I could see if he caught the ball in the end zone and went down and it bobbled being a no catch, but catching it on the 2 yard line going sideways going down to a knee then reaching for the goal line is such a different thing. Bogus call.

    But I put that that loss in big ben, he should have thrown a fade or thrown it away being in fg position on 3rd down with no timeouts and 12 seconds left you have to kick the fg or throw one pass to the back of the end zone it was a bad decision, however if he completed it im sure I would be saying it was gutsy and ben is a savage, but no one wants to go to OT with the pats ever.

    IMO I would have went for it on 4th and 1 right before the pats went and scored the td and the 2 point, pitt was running the ball very easy and I think they could have got that 4th and short, I just would have never gave the ball back to tom at that point.
     
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  26. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

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    My hope is that since it was the Steeler's that caught the end of the bad rule, the rule will get changed. I am not holding my breath though.
     
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  27. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    2 penalties for 4 yards compared to 6 for 63 yards on pitt. just seems to happen too often with the patriots especially in big games, I wonder how much money kraft spends on refs a year. does that go against their salary cap lol
     
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  28. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    So that is 2 games the Pats "won" because of refs over turning calls that would have beaten them.
     
  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    From the way I understand it, Kraft just gives Goodell the annual "reach around" at the team Christmas party and then Goodell handles the bribing of refs and the shunning of other team owners.
     
  30. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    haha I always wondered why the top of krafts head is so square, its to fit under the desk easier!!!
     
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  31. Phin McCool

    Phin McCool Well-Known Member

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    If the call was made for the ball bobbling in his hand when it touched the ground, it was actually in the end zone when it touched the ground. I'm happy to be corrected on this but surely once the ball breaks the plane, it's a touchdown, play over???
     
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  32. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Did you read what I posted in the "Other NFL" , section ?
     
  33. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    only time that's not in affect is when its pertaining to a catch, they simply said he didn't complete the catch. Dealing with a catch they have to maintain the whole "process" going to the ground. The problem is, to me he made a football move when his knee hit and he lunged towards the goal line. So if it moved that would have been a fumble and surely should have been called a td as soon as the ball broke the plain like if he was just a normal runner. to me it was a bogus call I thought he had the ball in enough time running east to west and then changing directions and lunged south I assume it was already caught at that point. I'm pretty sure everyone including the patriots knew it was a td until it was reviewed 30000 times. just another tuck rule win for the pats.
     
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  34. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Lol they totally did think it was a TD - none of them were arguing or calling for the review or anything. Instant Replay has become a scourge on the league and gone way beyond original intent and has spawned bizarre rules like this one. It's not hard - the dude caught the ball. That was a catch in everything but a rule technicality because the NFL loves nothing so much as to shoot itself in the damn foot constantly. The problem is that the knee + lunge itself didn't count as "going to the ground" or whatever they call it. Assinine that James would have been better off just curing into a ball on the 2 instead of trying for the score. Once that ball breaks the plane in his possession after that knee hit, done for me.

    And replay should never take more than 10/15 seconds IMO - if you can't make a new call in the timeframe, move on. I want OBVIOUS and blatant miscalls reversed, not every last thing nitpicked and scrutinized for 10 minutes. Or hell, take it out of the game refs hands and just have a central command do it. Wire the ref for a 15 second pause, either overturn the call and reset or accept the call and move on.
     
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  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I'll go look at it now.
     
  36. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your reasoning. If that was not a TD they need to go back and tale a whole lot of TD's off the board for many years, because how often do guys jump into the end zone and let the ball go as they stretch out? They always allow the TD to stand because the play is over once they break the plane. So in order not to count yesterday's TD they need to reason that he never gained control of the ball and didn't complete the catch. In other words, they say that he did not demonstrate control as he caught the ball cleanly with 2 hands, brought it in to himself, turned and reached back out with it to get it over the goal line. All of that was a bobble? LOL @ NFL. This is why I no longer spend money on this league. I wish some rich guy would start up the USFL again. I mean the XFL could rival this joke of a league as far as integrity and consistency goes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
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  37. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Well, apparently that is not the rule. But it should be, shouldn't it? Didn't it used to be?
     
  38. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Do you remember the 49er and Cowboys dynasties in the 1980's and 1990's?

    Why don't we hear anything similar about those teams?

    It's because they were never caught cheating.
     
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  39. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    He sets Goodell's salary. He has been on the compensation committee for many years. Goodell makes more than every player and should top the quarter billion dollar mark for his earnings since 2007 by next year. Hard to believe. He got some nice raises under Kraft and a really nice one after 2007 IIRC. Hmmm...what happened in 2007 that could have cause Kraft to want to raise Goodell's salary? Anyway, he also heads the cable contracts committee, which is a huge source of revenue for teams, but I forget the exact name of that one. Make no mistake, Kraft is a very powerful owner. Jerry Jones would like to overthrow Goodell as his contract talks are happening now, but it looks like he will fail on legal grounds.
     
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  40. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    From the NFL rulebook: "“If the ball touches the ground AFTER the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided that the player continues to maintain control.”
    I believe he did demonstrate and maintain control. The ground certainly didn't help him make the catch, which was what spawned all of these catch rules back in the late 90's. A playoff game involving Tampa Bay was the catalyst IIRC. I forget the receiver, but I think Shaun King threw it. There's certainly no indisputable evidence that James lost control. He had control and made 2 moves before it hit the ground anyway. He brought it towards himself (not a trap, he had it cleanly), then reached for the goal line. Too bad this happened.
     
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