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Is There a Fix for This Offense?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Actually No, it's not on
    Actually No, it's not on ajayi, it's on gase for continuously trying to run it into 8 and 9 man fronts when he should be using more play action and passing it over the top of the defense to make them pay.

    Ajayi is just tired of running into a brick wall he is trying to make something happen. I would do the same if I was him. Gase is running too much inside zone because that is the only thing he knows how to run.

    Ajayi is an outside zone runner but gase has no experience running outside zone.

    Gase needs to adjust to his players and make the best out of what they are good at, instead he is trying to force guys to run the limited amount of plays he knows even if it goes against their talents.

    The entire offensive failure is mostly on gase, he has shown a complete lack of creativity and flexibility in his playcalling and in the way he utilizes his players.
     
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  2. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The film doesn't lie- just fire up your dvr and pick any 3-5 run plays at random from any game this season. But instead of following Ajayi, follow the line. I think you'll be pretty surprised at what you see.
     
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  3. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    SLANTS!
     
  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I have done that and on most plays I see that the oline doesn't control the LOS, doesn't open any significant holes and a lot of times gets blown up by defenders who are in the backfield before ajayi even has time to get the handoff and hit any hole.

    Whenever they do open up a hole it is miniscule and would only lead to a couple yard gain because again as I said gase continues to try and run into a brick wall against 8 and 9 man fronts when he has only 6 blockers to work with. It's simple math but gase doesnt seem to understand that. Defenses are concentrating on stopping the run hence we should make them pay with the play action pass until they back off, then we can start using the run and keep the defense off balance. Instead hard head gase always comes out with the same predictable playcalling every game which everybody in the league has figured out by now and he seems incapable of changing.
     
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  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    by the way, those that said Cutler has no energy, try looking at Gase. The offense is a direct reflection off him on the sidelines, lack of energy, deer in headlights look. I think Gase, personally, wears his hat to close to his eyes. Maybe show your face a little and some energetic play calls?
     
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  6. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to argue- believe what you will.
     
  7. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The plays you reference where there is a slight hole and he bounces it out are the exception, not the rule. The rule is he normally has to run into a brick wall because our oline is getting their asses kicked and gase continuously tries to run against stacked fronts.
     
  8. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I think you need to watch the coaches tapes they have on NFL.com - not regular TV.
     
  9. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I have, yes it has happened on occasion, but it is not the main problem. The main problem is we continue to run it against stacked fronts and our oline is getting their asses kicked.

    Ajayi not hitting the right hole on occasion is the least of the problems.
     
  10. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Haha no you haven't.

    These guys are not sustaining their pass blocks right now. That means you have to stay committed to the run before you can catch the defense off guard with play-action unless you want to go max protect. Ajayi is not hitting the holes - he is often times moving laterally and trying to bounce everything outside because he doesn't want to have to work for the 3-4 years with 8 in the box.

    That forces Gase into a lot of 2nd and longs with poorly constructed passing routes instead favorable downs.
     
  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You don't know what you are talking about. The problem is we are trying to run it against defenses that are stacking the box to stop the run.

    Defenses are daring us to pass yet we insist on running it. Until gase gets out of his predictable script and starts challenging defenses with the passing game to get them to spread out our running game we will continue to be stuffed.

    We need to use the pass to open up the run, not the other way around as you suggest. We would go that route if defenses were actually concentrating on stopping the pass which they are not, they are concentrating on stopping the run and we are playing right into their strength instead of attacking the weakness.
     
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  12. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    Gase is the GURU though.

    I agree with using the pass to attack the defense when the box is stacked. A play action would be perfect. However, I doubt let’s the QBs audible.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    The plays I reference is about 7 out of 10 runs every game. As you said earlier, maybe sometimes there's a small hole and Ajayi could only get 2-3 yards.....I clearly said that as well. And that's why Gase is so mad right now- take the 3 yards and put our offense in a better position.

    Very few of Ajayi's yards this season are by design- that 21 yarder to start the game was him ignoring the coaches and doing what he felt like. And as fans, we say that's great- 21 yards on a cutback! But then Ajayi continued to try doing that over and over and over again the rest of the game. Besides that big run, he had 2 yards on the entire day and it's why Gase benched him for a good stretch in the 3rd quarter.
     
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  14. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think introducing new plays the week of a game is a big deal. The Pats do it, they're called wrinkles, and they usually do pretty well with it.

    The problem is, judging by Gase's presser, is that nobody is absorbing any of the information. QBs, OL, RBs, WRs, you name it. His offense, right now, is so scaled back and players still can't execute it. He can't win. I don't even think the scaled-back offense is that complicated- you can see that with the way that opposing defenses play us every week. The personnel, intellectually at this point, just can't get it done.

    He literally and figuratively cannot win (on offense) right now.
     
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  15. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    When we're sitting in our living rooms and can say based on the formation, they're running off left guard...and then that's what they do....it's a huge problem. We rean trips to one side five times this past game and guess what, we threw five screen passes. Huge problem. If I can see it then so can every defensive coordinator in the league- they're smarter than me and they're spending 20 hours watching tape to my 3.

    The only way we become competitive is to get back to a base offense- make one formation with a few minor variations and run everything out of it. Keep the routes simple and dink our way down the field. Use Aayi sparingly against stacked fronts...or actually call a darn sweep with some pulling guards to open up the outside. Gase was known for playing to his team's strength and I think he's doing a lousy job. The team is letting him down, yes, but he has to overcome that in a smarter way.

    Put a DE in there at fullback and run a power-I if you have to....whatever it takes.
     
  16. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Is it as simple as our linemen are getting bullied over in less than a second? How can you pass and run? Man to man, it's hard to believe. I believe Miami is showing something that is giving an edge to the defense? What I mean is, they are indicating run or where a play is going, based on the alignment of the personnel. It almost seems that the defense (which has been said in the past) knows what is going to happen.
     
  17. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    They averaged 21 ppg. And don't forget they had 12 people go on IR that season.

    And besides, the point was his offense was able to learn the playbook. The original claim was that it was too hard to learn. Well, it's not. Maybe it is for the dummies the Dolphins have lined up right now, and hence the reason he's dumbing down the offense, but in years past many offenses in the NFL have ran this system and ran it well.
     
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  18. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I posted awhile back and used a picture from the all 22 tape showing Ajayi not running where he's supposed to run. However, I DO think it's because of bad o-line play. He's so used to the hole not being there that he improvises on nearly every run.

    Saying that, he doesn't need to be benched. He needs to trust the line more. However, the line needs to play a lot better in order for him to gain some trust.
     
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  19. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    I have been thinking, the OL can't be that overpowered, right? Not in the NFL. They practice against Suh everyday. Could they be showing something on every play that is helping the defense? The ATL Falcon said something after the game in regards to that
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying to bench him for a few weeks or anything- but I'd bench him the first few series or something like that. Ajayi is CLEARLY our best player on offense and he has to be in the game.....but he has to be on the same page as the linemen as well.

    You're right, it's not great blocking because the math is pretty easy- you can't run into a loaded area and expect huge gains. And that's what every team is doing, you can read interviews from opponents each week and their only goal was stop Ajayi....everything else was secondary to stacking the line all the way across. Ajayi just has to hit those holes and take whatever he gets.

    That's why I've been saying that the o-line isn't necessarily playing bad...we're simply playing right into the opponent's game plan because we don't have any other choice. They are opening up holes at he first level a good bit of the time.
     
  21. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    A lot of this past game it was Moore calling the wrong protections. The o-line typically has one guy (or more) on most plays missing their block/assignment. However, even if one guy misses their block/assignment the RB's should still be able to get into the second level most of the time.
     
  22. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    one day's practice and the entire line was hurt
     
  23. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I don't recall anywhere Gase saying it was Moore calling the wrong protections all game long. What he did say is that the backs were missing their assignments.
     
  24. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Ya seriously right?

    Don't forget Moore rarely plays. So it's not like he sees these defensive fronts all the time and has mastered the O-line element.
     
  25. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    still they looked totally lost like a preseason game. now let's see a home game, later in the day, with 10-11 days prep
     
  26. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    lol...Did you not watch the game? Hell, even Romo said on a few occasions that Moore was calling the wrong protections and even pointed it out. In slow mo'. Not slow enough for ya'? lol
     
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  27. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    imagine we can be 5-3 after 8
     
  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    QB's generally call protections for passing plays...not runs. When we're running the football you're trying to make a wedge, so it's not like Moore would have to tell them how to block the DL. If the run is off-guard you're pushing outward left/right of that hole....a QB doesn't have to tell linemen that. The blocking schemes are incredibly simple and all based on where the defense lines up on the LOS. The only variation would be what Gase has the TE and weak side guard doing on those plays.

    You'll rarely hear a coach at any level say, "The line didn't know who to block on run plays," because you're building a 1 yard gap somewhere on the LOS. Passing is completely different though because you're protecting the entire LOS.
     
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  29. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

    ......... he said it twice man. I know counting isn't your strongest suit aka 2 = all game.
     
  30. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    He may have said it only twice. There were other times Moore called the wrong protection. You don't even know what you're watching.

    I never wrote "all game". I said "a lot". That's twice now in this thread that you've lied and wrote that I said something I didn't. I realize that you need to lie in order to force your agenda, but it doesn't work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
  31. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    easy danny, otherwise the nice police will arrest you
     
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  32. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Sorry bro, this is just not true. For example, identifying the Mike, one of the biggest things we see QB's doing in today's game, is setting the protection for both running and passing plays. Sometimes the center will do this, sometimes a team allows multiple people to call out the Mike, most of the time it's the QB.

    I do, however, love who you were thanked by.
     
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  33. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you're right. If you're blocking a space on the field then it doesn't matter who the Mike is....either he's in your runner's gap at the 2nd level or he's not. If he is, then it's Pouncey's job to punch him in the nuts. If he's not, then maybe the weak side guard is hitting him (depending on who's up front) or he's not blocked at all.

    I just did a quick search and everything I can find says that NFL teams do not identify the Mike on run plays unless they're trying to convince the defense that they're passing. I mean, you'd still have to identify who could cut into whatever gap so you're always accounting for the linebackers....I just don't think Moore or Cutler has anything to do what that on run plays.
     
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  34. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it was all on Moore. If you look at the plays it seemed some WR were running wrong routes. Why does Moore have to go to a wrist ban for plays? unless they threw in a bunch of new stuff.
     
  35. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Brady uses a wristband too. A lot of QB's do this.
     
  36. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Big ben also I think
     
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  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There is a difference though. Going from 84 to 100 is a QB having a decent day to a good day. 63 to 47 is a putrid day to an even more putrid day. It's like 114 to 130. An excellent day to a more excellent day. 16 point swings from 75-105 are more crucial than above and below IMO. The effect becomes more marginal as you go away from the "curve" so to speak.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2017
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  38. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    In running plays, the offensive tackles and guards are typically responsible for blocking the defensive linemen (Zone blocking is a little different). When the quarterback calls out the "Mike", it is typical that the guy who is being singled out will get a lot of attention on that play (maybe they will run right at him, or right away from him).

    For example, if a fullback's defensive assignment is to "block the Mike" but not necessarily a particular player, the quarterback is basically saying "for this particular play, and for your blocking assignment purposes 53 is the Mike, so block him!"

    There is a lot more involved for pass protection, but QB's (or center's) call out blocking responsibilities for run plays, too.
     
  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In Denver, the base was Manning/Moore's offense, with Gase's concepts being worked in. In Chicago, he wasn't the head coach. All he did was offense. Now he's trying to do the same, but oh yeah, in addition to the small workload that being a head coach in the NFL entails. In Chicago, he could dedicate 100% of his time to teaching the offense. Now?
     
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  40. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Man im glad you said it im tired of defending myself, but your 100% right cutler doesn't care neither does gase, gase looks like hes watching practice taking notes. In all honesty I think Gase (conspiracy here) whom my man DAN says is not calling plays kind of sabotaged the game plan against the ravens so moore didn't look good, so there was no controversy over cutler. I find it very hard to believe a "offensive guru" would call those plays for 60 minutes? horrible pass calls. By the way Moore looked like ish so maybe it wasn't all gase it was a whole team SH** SHOW, but im just still not convinced that a team can play that bad who beat Atlanta.
     
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