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Is There a Fix for This Offense?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I usually try to avoid posting on the day of a loss because everyone is so emotional....last night was painful to watch and of course we're pissed off. It's even harder because we don't know what the real problem is, why Gase is running predictable plays into the heart of the defense and what's going on with this team.

    Granted, if Moore was throwing those deep shots to Parker last night (instead of Grant), we probably had 2 or 3 scores. Stills missed a few that were either overthrown or PI that wasn't called. Landry and Ajayi were smothered all night and our line played horrible. Matt Moore was getting lit up and throwing the ball super fast....Romo even commented that he needed to hold it longer in the pocket a few times. But it wasn't Romo getting leveled out there either. I think that's why we brought in Carroo and started targeting him...at least it was a big body to throw to that couldn't be manhandled at the line. It was too little, too late though.

    What sucks to me is that we have a mini bye to sit back and pretend that things are going to get better, but it was fairly obvious that this is not a QB issue. The team just isn't in sync and when defenders are jumping routes pre snap, I don't know how you win. Like Romo said, we could run the dink offense until the team started to gel and guess what...it led to a pick 6 since that was the only thing we were doing.

    I'm not giving up on our team but darn, I can't tell you what needs to be improved. This looks like the basic fundamentals of football with how we line up, the formations we use and how we create space....there just was none of that last night.

    I'll try to end on some positive notes-

    1) Parker will be back next game. We desperately need him on the field.

    2) The defense looked pretty good despite giving up all those points. That came from frustration of only getting 2 minute breaks on the sideline before getting rushed right back in the game.

    3) Kiko's hit really screwed this team because the refs stopped calling anything our way- including late hits, PI and unsportsmanlike conduct. The Ravens got away with a lot.

    4) If I'm Miami, I'm spending the next 3-5 days on the playbook and getting everyone in sync as much as possible. Specifically, Gase needs to spend a lot of time with Moore, Landry, Ajayi and Stills...they need to find answers on how to create space and execute.

    5) My old high school coach had a cure for bad line play- he would run us until we puked...literally. Then he'd bench us. I understand it's hard to block when you have no idea who you're blocking until the snap, but we need to do better all the way around. Formation, playcall and execution.

    How do we fix this? I really don't know....and it shows that Gase doesn't know either. They need to go back to basic quickly and find those answers, even if it means a full roster shakeup. I'd be inclined to start Fales for the first series next week just to see what happens.
     
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  2. Seadog

    Seadog Active Member

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    Start with the OL

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    I like the post to be positive, but I have a really really hard time thinking Miami doesn't get royally blasted by the raiders, the raiders offense is 8 times better than the ravens and the defense is as good. oh and by the way cutler is coming back and I see a cutler 4 int game coming. Its always national tv games we ish the bed and I have to explain to everyone I know why I like the dolphins. I want one good showing on national tv. I think we are something like 1-8 in the past 9 nationally televised games and now we have 3 in a row. My guess would be we get non next yr lol. we sucked against the jets and last night. so we are 0-2 this yr with 2 to go.
     
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  4. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    The OL sucks not because of ability, but because of limited intellect. In fact, I think that's the case for the majority of the offense. A bunch of people who can run, jump, catch, etc with the best of them, but can't learn Gase's system.
     
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  5. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    the fans wanted moore, and moore came out in full force last night. Need an OC, still need an OL, and need a QB. Need to give up on the grant experiment.
     
  6. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Learn how to execute a screen. Cut Damien Williams and get someone who can be effective. Cut Julius Thomas and get someone who can make a defender miss. More misdirection and motion so we aren't telegraphing our play and letting opposing defense stack 8-9 people against Ajayi. Quick passes that hit receivers in motion (slants). Ajayi needs to hit the hole faster and harder, any dancing/stopping and the OL is letting people in.

    Kill off any ****, slow developing running plays. We get killed with that junk.
     
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  7. phins18

    phins18 Active Member

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    Once again, like i said back in march/april, this season was done when they stupidly brought back Bushrod, the single worst lineman in football last year, and then thought that only adding Ted Larsen was a smart thing to do. Larsen isnt a good player either, and our guard position has short circuited the offense for 6 years at this point. It is flat out pathetic.

    And id be totally cool with cutting mike pouncey after this year. Not nearly good enough for how highly people rate him and how much money he makes. It is unacceptable to spend 3 picks on lineman in the last 5-6 years and still have the worst line in football even though all 3 are starters.
     
  8. thetylernator

    thetylernator You're as cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

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    No team has been shut out as convincingly as we were in three years. Three ****ing years.

    I am generally an optimistic poster, but I am also a rational one; and if I know anything about this team, it's that we will not make the playoffs this season. No team gets drubbed that bad on national television and morphs into a contender overnight. The issues on offense run deep, and the Ravens exposed that hole for the entire league to see.

    Welcome to rock bottom, friends.
     
  9. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    If Gase needed to dumb things that down much - then this is an issue with his and the FO's personnel scouting. They've had these players since the beginning of last year except now Tunsil is playing LT. Gase also brought the O-line coaching in here.

    What's wild to me is that Gase's "scheme" is so complex that in lieu of injuries and other factors he has to jump all the way to the other extreme and call the most simplified game ever. There's no middle ground? What the hell was Matt Moore doing out there with a wristband? Oh it's because as Romo mentioned in-game Gase was drawing up brand new plays this week. Fantastic time for that Adam! Let's confuse the situation even more with untested plays they never practiced over the course of training camp.

    I'm not calling for his firing - but personally I find the way he tries to shuttle blame somewhat deplorable, especially when you're a first time head coach. He hasn't earned the right to admonish his offense like that considering he hasn't accomplished anything. With that Ravens pass rush - why didn't we simplify things in a matter of unbalanced lines or jumbo formations to try and get the running game going and try our best to NOT put the game in the hands of Matt Moore on a short week? This was a Ravens squad that pummeled us last year even with Tanny at QB.

    For God sakes Gase was calling go-routes for Jarvis Landry out there and don't get me started about the untimely bubble screens when your line isn't holding their blocks. Even after Mallet came in - they were giving us the intermediate stuff, but the entire offense quit. I'm still stunned by what I watched. The wheels totally came off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Interior OL, A serious TE threat, ....and...a power house QB. Can that be Tannehill?...maybe. I really liked how he progressed before he went down. I still have hope for him, but, at this point, the position is still a big ?. That's it.
     
  11. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    It was a season destroying loss. There is no excuse for the OL to be that bad, not when there has only been ONE real injury to a projected starter. It is the predictable play-calling and lack of offensive adjustments.

    I'd LOVE to see Gase step back and just be a head coach while Tanny calls the plays against the Raiders. Not like we can score LESS than ZERO points, right?
     
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  12. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Just to make it clear, and because someone likes to constantly tout that RT played poorly against the Ravens last year, too. I assume to make excuses for Moore.

    Last year RT was 29 of 40, 226 yards, 1 TD and 3 INT = 63 QBR

    Moore was 25 of 44, 176 yards, 0 TD's, and 2 INT's = 47 QBR

    Both poor, but let's not try to compare a 16 point difference in QBR. That's like saying an 84 QBR is similar to a 100 QBR. And let's not forget about the two 50+ yard pick-6's from everyone's favorite back-up.
     
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  13. Seadog

    Seadog Active Member

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    To be fair, the OL lost their dealer a couple weeks ago, they're withdrawing at this point...
     
  14. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, there's not much difference in those 16 points....you're talking about losing badly either way. You'd hope that a bad day for your QB is in the mid-70's.

    You know I'm a huge Moore fan and I can defend him like others have defended RT in the past- the line sucked, the receivers quit, the run game sucked, the coach was vanilla, etc. All of that is true and played a big factor in the loss.

    But at the same time, I saw Moore go deep maybe 6 times? 7? There's the 40 points we needed and that's 100% on Moore. He played decent under the circumstances but it was still a horrible night...his worst as a Dolphin. And there's no excuse for that.
     
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  15. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    NAILED IT!!!! there recovering, cold sweats, fevers all cold turkey!!!
     
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  16. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    I laughed. Not the craziest explanation for what we saw out there last night.....
     
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  17. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Moore is a Backup QB been that for many years, so expecting a fanchise QB from him is delusional (IMO).

    Cutler never really a legitimate franchise type QB, one could depend on. Experienced, but inconsistent and similar pickup like our OL where organization more hopeful of a gap filler with fingers crossed to exceed potential due to new system and coaching staff....( obviously not working)

    Sadly, I don't really see much hope and would see this team as reaching mediocrity on a consistent basis as success..

    Will need to 1.) upgrade at least 3/4 of our OL with real and proven quality and not more backups (money needs to be spent in this area). Including Pouncey (injury prone and not as impact as past)
    2.) IMO another QB in the event that Tanne. doesn't become all we hoped he would be. If thats all we can do then we should do it and work on other positions in future when possible. But these two problems are a must to start to get on that consistent decent level.

    3.) I'm also into a new coaching staff......One who has proven NFL experience and success as a HC and not another up and coming crap shot or experiment....(maybe one gets released like Reid did, man that would have been a score IMO...but we need some luck this off season and someone whos been here and done that on a successful level......JMO
     
  18. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Some people care about all the wrong things. Like it's some consolation prize to suck less.

    Tanny and Moore were both cow doo doo. Trying to split hairs and discuss which one was from a calf or a bull is a complete waste of time ....... not to mention petty. The play of both QB's helped contribute to a combined 78-6 scoreboard in two games. Any stats they accumulated were largely due to garbage time.
     
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  19. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I forgot to include this in my posts about Gase - but what good is it if you're this offensive genius but the system is too advanced for most OR you simply cannot teach it consistently?
     
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  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    He had no problems implementing and teaching it in Chicago or Denver. He also was able to win with it last season.
     
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  21. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I've always heard that Tannehill is off the charts smart....could he be the missing catalyst this season? I'm talking from an organizational level of getting folks in place, handing out assignments, making route adjustments and stuff like that. We know both Moore and Cutler are capable QB's in terms of executing, but we also know that Cutler is not a big communicator.

    Could it be that simple? Gase is dumbing it down because Tannehill isn't in there dumbing it down for everyone else?
     
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  22. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why we keep building up these high expectations for a Cutler/Moore ran offense. With Tannehill out we are a struggling offense, its to be expected. Cutler and Moore are not saviors that are going to turn us into a SB bound team. If anything the only thing these guys have done is confirmed that we should take a 2nd look at Tannehill. He might be a lot better then we have been giving him credit for.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes.

    I was saying it earlier this year that Thill is the check against Gase outsmarting himself. Numerous times last season Gase admitted he should have listened to Thill more, then he included him on the game planning. Its also no surprise that when everyone was questioning Thill's leadership ability, we find out the other offensive players just so happen too lose focus when he isn't their QB.
     
  24. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    For this season it can only be patched. We are not going to win a shootout against any team in the league not even the Browns.

    We have to keep the ball on Ajayis hands and control the time of possession.

    How do we do that? The offensive line has to play better, and it starts with a change of philosophy from coaching.

    Moving guys around in different blocking schemes, instead of just bulldozing the guy in front of you hoping it creates a hole.

    Running an unbalanced line like the Ravens did against us.

    Try new things, for gods sakes try new things..
     
  25. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    I hope THill is 100% next season.
     
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  26. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    In 2015 - Chicago was the 21st ranked offense in the NFL, not exactly celebratory material. They had the exact same ranking in 2014. The only significant difference was limited the exposure to Cutler and his turnovers.

    In Denver, he had the luxury of working with Peyton Manning. It's easier to run complex schemes with one of the NFL's greatest field chess players.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    these delayed runs are so bad for ajayi, its obvious he doesn't have that quick acceleration needed for those type of plays, he's a big boy.
     
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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I wish we would have called Peyton this offseason, even if it wasn't to be our quarterback. He is the NFL's greatest chess player and I would love to have him calling the plays (even if he's not running them himself).
     
  29. CanGasePlaybook

    CanGasePlaybook Active Member

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    Let’s really think about this....do you really believe that Gase was calling the shots with Peyton? NOOOO! Peyton was his own OC. That guy called the plays at the line. I’ve heard that he might be one of the smartest players to have played. I’d love to have Peyton calling our plays.
     
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  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I'm reading in other places from people who claim to watch coaches tape that Ajayi is not following his blocking at all ...... mostly trying to hit the home run on every carry.

    That's a HUGE problem if true because he's the centerpiece of this offense.
     
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  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't watch coaches tapes and I've been saying that all season! He hit the gaps for the most part in the Jets game, but he's bounced outside every other match-up. All you have to do is watch the guard and the tackle on the side of the ball the QB hands off to.....they'll tell you where Ajayi is supposed to go. Gase hasn't called any sweeps this season with Ajayi but about 85% of his runs end up outside the tackle.

    Why is this a problem? Our line is opening up holes and since Ajayi is not in them, linebackers and safeties are waltzing through untouched. That's because we're telegraphing our plays by the actual formations- if it's trips to one side, watch for the screen. If it's one WR on each side of the field, we're running. If the TE is in close off-tackle, we're running to that side of the field.

    I'm a former lineman so I watch this part of the game where the average fan may not, but the line is playing fairly well this season (far better than folks are saying). Ajayi just isn't hitting holes like he's supposed to and we seem to pass a lot more when Williams in on the field. Williams can't block anything though and since our offense is so darn one-dimensional, teams are bringing more heat than 6 guys can block (if you even bother to count Williams as the 6th blocker). And since we're continually running into the A gap and B gap by design, Fasano is a complete non-factor due to the scheme...no reason to even count him as a blocker even though he's doing everything right.

    Yet when a small hole opens in the A and Ajayi bounces to the outside....where we're pushing blocks in the first place....either Ajayi is going to out-power/out-dance the initial rush or he's going to get tackled in the backfield. A novice would say "**** blocking" but that's just not what's happening here. Ajayi may be one of the best in the business but he needs to be benched.
     
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  32. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Was this part of the issue early last season when he was benched as well?
     
  33. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Mods please sticky this post.

    Thanks for the breakdown KF! I never knew you were a lineman so this is very cool stuff to read. Damien Williams is a waste of a roster spot IMO. He should've been replaced a long time ago.
     
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  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    That was before game one so I'm not sure....we didn't get any film to actually say either way.

    It's hard to fault the guy because he runs so incredibly hard and violent, and if you see something open outside you do want him to bounce it out for the big gain. But with the way defenses are stacking the box and anticipating him bouncing out without any blockers involved, it's very easy to shut him down right now if he doesn't crash inside like the play calls for.

    The simple answer is to just run the ball a lot less...but then you run into the receivers not knowing the plays enough to really open up the offense- that's why we run so many darn screens. It's a really tough catch 22 at this point and we just need practices to fix it.
     
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  35. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Gase's last presser all makes more sense now. No wonder he's hinting at the RB's and WR's.
     
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  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Not a problem at all- folks don't like talking offensive line except when things look bad, so I rarely go into detail.

    Essentially though, when the ball is snapped, a lineman will either stand partially upright with their hands in front of him (pass play) or he will fire off the ball and hit someone (run play). If it's a run, the lineman will put their head on the side of the player where they're trying to run the ball and create a hole....they want to pop the defender with their shoulder pad and drive him 2-3 steps. Now remember, Ajayi should be past the 1st level in less than a second so it's not like you need to dominate...just set the edge and make 1-2 steps of space so he can get by.

    Most of our run designs are between guard and tackle IF the nose tackle is lined up outside of Pouncey (already in a gap), or between guard and center if the NT is right over Pouncey. The reason we do that is because Pouncey is one of the best around at getting to the linebacker and laying him on his ***, and the guard can easily block down on a NT if he's close to him in the gap. That means Tunsil or James kicks their guy out and you have a big, beautiful hole with Pouncey bearing down on the LB covering that gap. If Pouncey makes contact, Ajayi is going 5-8 yards untouched before his power becomes a factor...and that's how he got those massive gains last year. He was hitting the right gaps and working with his linemen.

    So for those who say Pouncey sucks this year....Ajayi is getting tackled in the backfield. That's not something that falls to the center since he's blocking the 2nd level. Pouncey (and the LB he's blocking) are a non-factor if the RB doesn't hit the right hole.

    What teams are doing though is cramming eight into the box so even if everyone does what they're supposed to do perfectly, there's a LB to slide into the gap and challenge Ajayi. So you have a center/LB to one side and a free LB on the other (this is where Fasano would come in at), and there's just not a lot of room to go to work. That's why Ajayi is bouncing outside, directly into Tunsil or James's block...and it's IMPOSSIBLE for those linemen to re-adjust after they're engaged and trying to drive someone. They're firing forward with everything they have...they just can't stop, take a step back and hit the same guy on the opposite side. And even if it were somehow possible, our tackles can't see Ajayi to know he's bouncing outside.

    So for those who say Tunsil/James sucks this year, you're expecting them to do the impossible. If Ajayi bounces outside, we are pushing defenders straight into where Ajayi eventually ends up going.

    On top of that, you're seeing corners/DB's creeping up to the line on expected run plays to set the edge even more, which would logically fall to Fasano IF the play was a sweep. Only, we're going through the A/B gap since it's the weakest point on the field with that many bodies up front. And if that's where the ball goes, that outside guy is a non-factor...he can run wherever he wants and not make a play. But now he's standing there with a free hit on Ajayi because our receivers aren't blocking them either.....because the ball is supposed to be going in the B gap.

    So this isn't on Fasano, Landry, Stills or anyone else either. It's solely on Ajayi.

    Like I said earlier, Ajayi is expected to bounce outside if the hole isn't there or he just happens to see broad daylight to the outside. But the holes are there, people are working their asses off to let us gain yardage, and Ajayi is seeing little space at the 2nd level so he's freelancing. It's hard to fault him on one hand because he fights so incredibly hard, but Gase is beside himself with frustration because his RB won't listen.

    Am I saying that our line never misses blocks? Not by a longshot. But there are holes to run through more often than not for a 2-5 yard gain. Ajayi is just trying too hard to carry the whole team that he's passing on the short gain and going for the home run....and losing yards in the process.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  37. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

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    Only fix's for this offense is not having this offense....next year... we will have our 15 to 20th shot to fix this offense. Hopefully whoever s there falls and hits some sense into his head and starts by a real OL up grade, but Im though holding my breath on that one.....been hoping that ever since the Wannstedt days......and Gase and buddies seem to still be in the denial stage of real OL help.......After his last PC I wonder what games he's actually watching......loading up on the RB's as the problem.....yikes !
     
  38. Grippa

    Grippa Member

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    Start Drake Ahead of Ajayi
    and hire Tony Romo as our OC ( the guy will be a great OC one day )
     
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  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If they did that next week, Drake would look like a superstar because he'd hit the holes every time in his first start. Your eyes would tell you that Drake is better than Ajayi and the J-train would quickly get the message....hit your holes and grind out whatever happens to be there. I'm all for starting Drake next week....the bench was what ignited Ajayi last season and I think he needs at least a 1/2 game timeout to realize that.

    As far as Romo goes (I'd still prefer Peyton myself) I'd love to see that. Guys who have been in the trenches just see so much more than a non-playing coach would in the heat of the moment.
     
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  40. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    This is pure and utter BS. AJAYI is bouncing it outside more because he is tired of running into a brick wall against 8 and 9 man fronts. Not only is the line NOT openning holes, but most of the time the defenders are in the backfield before ajayi even gets the handoff.

    Ajayi is NOT the problem , the coaches not knowing how to design and call running plays and the oline being made up of mostly soft pansy asses who can't control the LOS worth a damn is what the problem is.
     

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