They deserve Fan Mutiny until they fix offensive line.

I agree, and compounding this deficiency has been our scouting department whiffing and identifying OL talent over the years.

Dallas Thomas? Billy Milner? Wade Smith? The list goes on and on. Over the last two decades the organization has been miserable in drafting and accumulating offensive line talent.

 

I get the frustration but we did make the playoffs last year and Gase seems to be competent. No mutiny on my part.

Now if we have a losing record this year? Yeah I'll join in.

 

My hope is that Laremy Tunsil is the foundation of our new era, and turning around the offensive line woes. They got lucky drafting him, but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. Plus, I give the front office credit for having the moxie to pull the trigger, while other teams were frantic and passing on him.

I think once we find a talented replacement for Pouncey next year, the line will really start to gel and can be turned around into a position of strength. Pouncey is made of glass, and that has really hurt inside continuity.

 

I don't disagree that the front office has whiffed on the offensive line numerous times over the years, but I think calling for mutiny -- after the second pre-season game, no less -- is a bit premature. We have a young core of players all across the board, and a team that has recently experienced an unexpected setback in regards to their franchise quarterback. Thus, growing pains are to be expected, and this makes it difficult to shove the blame on one particular set of positions.

Laremy Tunsil, Mike Pouncey, and Ja'Wuan James have proven that they are capable of anchoring an above-average offensive line. Sure, there are questions with the depth behind them, but Coach Gase gets paid to figure these problems out. I'm not worried yet.

 

The o-line looked putrid. 3 starters didn't play though. I'll hold judgement until then.

 

Tunsil, Pouncey and James are all competent starters. Our rookie Aista will eventually be a #1 for a long time as well. That leaves 4 or 5 journeymen trying to fill one spot on our roster- it's definitely not time for doom and gloom. We're 2 weeks into camp....the sky is not falling.

 

Now you are just plain making crap up. Jake Long was an enormously popular draft pick and a fan favorite until he became crippled and we couldn't justify out bidding the Rams for his services.

 

Not quite. A few of us in the Matt Ryan camp were pissed we spent the #1 overall pick on Jake Long when we were qb hungry. If you recall Vernon Carey moved to RT that year and graded out well.

Drafting an LT #1 overall is like putting a deadbolt on a 3 in steel door on the front door of Ft Knox while the other 3 doors were unlocked and there was no gold (qb) inside.

This OL thing could blow up. Jawuan was okay and pretty good last year. Let's hope he isn't inconsistent anymore. Let's hope Pouncy isn't injured. Let's hope Tunsil can play LT in the NFL. Let's hope the guards aren't a disaster.

That's a lot of hoping.

 

We needed one quality guard from free agency. We didn't get any. The Eagles have rebuilt their offensive line with free agent luck. Brandon Brooks and now Warmack. We didn't even get one in 3 years. Not buying a new hat this year. That will show them my displeasure.

 

Last 11 years Pats picked OL in the 1st round once.

We did it four times.

But then again, who wants to imitate an approach that wins Superbowls consistently?

 

Ridiculous. Prospect and player are two different things. Just because a team drafts a first round caliber prospect, doesn't mean the player will evolve into a pro bowl caliber player. Dan Marino was a 1st round caliber prospect. He was a dominate force in the NFL. Tim Tebow was drafted in the 1st round. He plays baseball now.... Just because Miami has paid a premium for offensive lineman, doesn't mean that those lineman are good. Context matters...

And if we want to go one step further, NE is a better organization in every way, shape, and form than Miami and every other NFL team. They're not the rule.

 

Gee

Concern with the OL again, now theres a shocker... Seems to have been Miami's #1 concern for years and you see the guys we nab in FA and the ones we let get away. Now either you view that as successful of Not successful. Going after a OL in the first rd as often as its been on the table could be considered a clue by those in the OL screwed up camp. The fact that last part of the season last year shown somewhat improvement so the other-side can consider an up-grade from the hasbeens preceding.

Another potential bombshell on Gase to get done. Or for those liking Gase so much, some will put all the blame on T-bomb if unsuccessful. We've got a new HC and truthfully I'd think his recognition of a good OL and making sure we got one could be considered what the man in charge "Must Know 101". Now one, he's doing it with guys we just don't know enough about or two, we're stuck in that ground hog day of the last 12-15 years or when the Stach first was hired and the OL went over his head for a long time too. But I tell ya we need to much help in to many other areas to take up such a need at OL year after year after year....
and to have to be wondering AGAIN says a lot JMO....Hate to say it but I'm just used to it after all these years and have callouses where the doors been hitting me on the butt...surprised some still keep the door closed....

 

I believe that was his point, Clark. Pats pick olineman later and develop them instead of sinking high round choices on them and having them ultimately not pan out. The previous regimes both picked lineman high and then either didn't develop them or picked the wrong guys altogether.

 

I'm picking your post for my overall reply to this thread, so don't take it personal.

Our offensive line has been atrocious for a number of years despite some of the picks we have made as listed above. Long, Pouncy, James...the signing of Albert. These are actually some pretty damned good players but our OL has still been crap for years.

In your post, you state that drafting a LT #1 is like putting a deadbolt to the steel door at Fort Knox without any gold (QB) inside the vault. While I don't agree with your analogy, I understand what you're saying however, what good is that steel door, that deadbolt...even that big bar of gold inside of the vault if the guy on the outside of the vault can't open the steel door because he doesn't know the combination or lost the key to that deadbolt...yes, I'm referring to coaching!!!

You were one of the ones that were in the Matt Ryan camp but please, can you HONESTLY say that Matt Ryan under the tutelage of Tony Sparano, David Lee (QB Coach) and Dan Henning (Offensive Coordinator) would have had a successful career as the QB of the Dolphins...with Jeff Ireland as the General Manager drafting/signing players to surround you? Can you REALLY say that???? Ryan's career in Miami would have gone down the same road map as Chad Henne.

Football 101 DICTATES that offensively, you MUST have a solid offensive line. It doesn't matter who you have as a quarterback; it doesn't matter who you have as a running back...if you don't have an offensive line that can effectively block, that quarterback won't be able to drop back and is going to be running for his life...that running back (unless he is the freak of nature Barry Sanders) is going to get dropped in the backfield every single time.

 

The problem is people think picking in a given round automatically means something, it doesn't.

We need a better line no one questions that, but you don't need to spend high picks to do it. For the first time in a long time, we have a staff that may just be capable of developing talent.

Let's give them longer than one and half off seasons.

 

It can't be worse than what they inherited. In fact, I think the OL will gel nicely this year

 

People have a sense that the higher the pick the better the odds for success, which does have some level of reality about it.

Also FA's available should be even more in the picture. Vet. Players who have already shown a consistency and success maybe a better choice than someone you hope you can develop especially when you already have a crew of developies who many of us have wondered through the years if they will ever develop into a quality level needed to achieve success.....And we're talking starters here and not a huge batch of potential backups.

When people are not sure of a staffs developing potential and see the same caliber players brought in and sometimes proven talent passed by the natural tendency is to be concerned. Now if your right and we have the staff to develop well we will be OK...but if not also a possibility, we will be held back for more years and that I think is the fear a lot in here justifiably have, for the trust has been beaten down for over a decade.... But like it or not they are going to get more time to see just how efficient this teams staff truly is...and we All hope you are right...

 

We had a decent line with Long and Smiley and Grove. Yes I believe Matt Ryan would still be good.

I disagree about MUST having a solid offensive line. It helps. A lot. But it's not essential. Seahawks. Giants. Steelers. Some bad offensive lines and super bowl rings.

Ryan tannehill has had crappy coaching and we all saw development no? Is Tanny the only qb in the NFL that can develop with bad coaching? We have seen on this forum people say Brady and Wilson would haven been cut or 3rd string if drafted by Miami. I don't buy that. I think NFL quarterbacks can still develop with bad coaching. Will it hurt or stunt their development sure. But they can still learn the offense, learn to read defenses and hit the open guy. They'll show enough.

 

We invested FA money and draft resources to the line. Larsen and Fasano were both brought in to help block. We had some young guys last year that got some experience and we are working on them trying to get them developed. We have 3 first round picks projected as starters. We drafted a young mauler in Asiata who was voted best Olinemen in his conference and the strongest G at the combine.

Will those moves work out to make us better? Who knows. But its not like we stood pat on where we were from last year, and have been continually neglecting the Oline. That's not an accurate portrayal of our strategy the past decade.

Furthermore, I'd say last year the DLine was worse and bigger priority than the oline. Yes, not able to convert on offense was a problem. But giving up 2500 yards rushing is going to mean you're defense is going to be historically awful. Ours was.

But if you want to abandon them because of it, that is also your choice. I am optimistic. Yes, we've had some huge losses from injuries. Yes, I am sure we'll have more. But I won't abandon this team. I'll make a list of players I hope we get next year and hope for the best.

Enjoy your season doing whatever it is you intend to do instead of watching the Fins.

 

The difference is continuity. It's not about first round picks or high priced FAs. That's what fans think when they want a team to prioritize the OL, but we've done that and failed. For parts of this stretch of putrid OL play we've had some of the most expensive OLs and most high picks on the OL. OLs are built over time. It's about finding and developing parts that fit together and work as one. And having back-ups who can sub in seamlessly b/c they've all been doing it together the same way for years. Then even if you have to bring in an outsider he's learning from the coaches and 7 other guys who all do it the same way.

 

It's frustrating because of the resources we've put into it. But there are several teams that have been succeeding with really bad OL play, and some are potential Super Bowl teams this year in Seattle and the Giants.

The Giants work around it by finding pass catchers who get open quickly (OBJ, Shepard, Engram, Marshall though he's more of a physical mismatch). Seattle's QB is elusive and their run game is diverse. Obviously both teams' defenses are also excellent.

It's not impossible to field a contender with poor pass protection. But it's definitely more difficult.

 

In fairness to Wade Smith, after he was jettisoned in Miami, he became a very good guard for KC and especially for Houston. He played for 11 seasons altogether.

 

Whether we agree or not, they believed Ted Larsen was a quality zone blocking guard when he was signed in free agency. Unfortunately, he is injured.

 

I was hoping we'd sign Nick Mangold, but no one else has tried very hard to sign him yet either. I was hoping we'd draft Ethan Pocic too, and he was on the board when we took McMillan.

 

I listened to an interview w/ the Shehacks GM yesterday. The Shehacks fans have the same beaches about their O line as ours. Talking heads always busting their balls about it. Know what Schneidly said? He said it's HARD TO get top OL talent. 3-4 top prospects at LT every year for 32 teams. OL in college aren't playing the same game as the NFL. Superstar OL can also be Superstar DL. Which one pays more? It aint easy. Dallas sucked for years to get their OL and couldn't keep it all intact for more than three years. Centers are getting 9 million a year, Average Guards 12 in FA. Because there aren't enough really good ones to go around.

 

But, if you looked at the two teams that went to the SB last year, neither has an OLine on the level of Dallas. They both plugged in lower tier players at G, and didn't have top picks at C.

If I am building an NFL roster, a stud LT is critical. The other guys just have to be healthy and be able to adjust to the NFL game. The problem is identifying 3rd and 4th rounders that can play. We've drafted plenty of these guys that past 7-8 years...they've all sucked.

 

What people are missing here is that Philbin wanted "high moral character" in his linemen and we spent several years grabbing good guys instead of good football players. Then we let the left side of our line walk over the bully scandal, followed by grabbing Albert and watching him stay hurt half the time he was in Miami. Last year was especially rough with injuries and we haven't seen a true 1st string line in quite some time in Miami.

My point here is that the top five linemen we drafted/traded for have rarely been on the field together in recent years. It's not time to panic over what this year will look like.

 

I think that our biggest issue is our inability to properly evaluate o-line talent. We have sunk many mid round picks on o-line, but they have never panned out. The front office has attempted but failed. My philosophy has long been, "Know what it is that you don't know." Our front office certainly does not know how to evaluate offensive line talent. Does that mean we need to fire them? Absolutely not. Stephen Ross is a great owner and always comes to rescue in terms of providing cash resources to better the team. Go find a scout that specializes in finding o-line personnel and offer him a huge raise to come to Miami. Hell, hire a team that specializes in o-line. We need new eyes evaluating offensive line talent.

 

Yes, but you're talking about three generations of talent evaluations over a five year period...and three different philosophies on what makes a solid lineman. Sparano looked for brutal, ruthless blockers like Jake Long, Mike Pouncey and Incognito. Philbin looked for the high moral character and superior intelligence in folks like Johnathan Martin. Now we have Gase who's looking for specific players to fill very specific roles...but hes left with about six years of mismatched players to fill out his offensive line. So we brought in players like Tunsil and Asita that are big bodies that play with aggression- and we filled the gaps with journeymen who have those same qualities.

Plain and simple, this is the start of year two and people are acting like our line should already be better than the Cowboys. Need I remind you that only a handful of backs have ever rushed for 200+ yards three times in a single season? Ajayi is the least known on that exclusive list and it's because of the same line that people are bashing right now....even though they started together only 3 games last season.

Simply put, we do not have an offensive line problem in Miami. Tunsil and James are solid on the outside. If healthy, Pouncey is the best in the business....and coaches believe that he is finally healthy. If not, Steen is about average for an NFL center and an excellent pickup for next to nothing...he may earn the starting guard spot. Then we have about 5-6 other veterans competing against three young guys for the final two guard spots- that's the best you could hope for in two drafts.

I know we didn't look great in preseason BUT BUT BUT we intentionally rotated linemen around as much as possible. Gase's goal is to get our entire squad comfortable at guard, tackle and even center so we're covered regardless of what happens with Pouncey. So I'll say it again- the sky is not falling in Miami. We are fine at offensive line and if we weren't, Gase would correct it. Give the man a little faith since he went from the worst line in the entire league to a team that won 9 of 11 down the stretch. In case you forgot, those were our LAST 11 GAMES and we're better now than we were then.

 

The last few years I've been on the front row of the "fix the OL" crowd. It frustrated me to see an obvious weakness find no solution. However, last year, after a certain duo were ditched things improved and I was hoping for 'passable'. Then Pouncey went down and more and more we were running on back-up players. I remember the dread that brought, the expectation that a surprising OL season would now give way to the previous years' turnstile performances. And then, it didn't happen. We had a patch-work line and yet somehow, it didn't collapse. When I think about it I'm still surprised. I remember thinking, "But the parts aren't that different. Something else must have changed." And that's what I'm hopeful for. I'm hoping that something else has changed, some 'X' factor. Could be the coaching or scheme, could be the culture or leadership. Could have been Tannehill in whole or part (which might not bode well now). Whatever the cause, last year's performance could indicate better things ahead for the Miami Dolphins in terms of OL play.

As has been pointed out, the Patsies have managed to do very well with mostly 'no name' players. Perhaps Gase and co. are findinga way to do that too. I hope so.

 

Hope isn't a plan.


'Hope' you're right.

 

Me too.
Fortunately I'm not head coach, so I don't need a plan.

 

Those two sentences don't seem to match. Sort of like these two....

"The plane has never flown without crashing. There is no need to worry yet."