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Here's What's Wrong With Cutler...Give Me A Minute...Wait I Know There Has To Be Something...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rickysabeast, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/s...-salguero/article165971317.html#storylink=rss

    Armando nails it. There is no reason right now that you can cite that is an issue with Cutler. In fact, you could argue we might have minutely upgraded from T-Hill. I for one am immensely proud of the Dolphins Execs for saving the season. We basically found the magic 1up mushroom just as King Koopa killed us by opening the fire drawbridge (If you don't understand this reference there's rat poison and a spoon in the cabinet you'll be missed).
     
  2. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Super Mario reference is post of the year


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  3. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    I need like a custom signature saying that. I shall bequeath it to the poster of the year for 2018.
     
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  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    If Cutler can play to the form he did under Gase in Chicago, there's nothing wrong with this move as it gives us a QB already knowledgeable with Gase's offense but if he can't...
     
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  5. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    Getting back to the article. In coach Gase's opinion MM is not a 16 game starter. I do blame the organization for undervaluing RTs injury and not adding personnel sooner, even Cutler. They were lucky to find a system guy. This org has to do a better job protecting the franchise with better OLinemen and qb's


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  6. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    The only thing I'd like to see is he needs to work on eliminating the word "they". It needs to have already been "We and Us" before the PC yesterday. I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs but it's a very big deal. Hopefully, he focuses on that.

    To me, the only way he can screw up (besides not throwing well and making bad throwing decisions) is to not tread lightly the first couple days. The team morale thing is a gossamer string tight rope. He needs to show respect to all the work everyones put in and just show how grateful he is to have gotten the opportunity to come and help out. The focus needs to be on beating those sixteen enemies on the schedule.
     
  7. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    If MM goes down, at least we have someone halfway decent, beggars can't be choosers after all, but we have to hope MM makes it through the season if we have any chance of making some noise, because captain TO isn't taking us anywhere.

    208 TDs - 146 INTs, a low number of TDs and a high number of INTs, it's about 3 INTs for every 4 TDs, not once in his career has he had a 2-1 TD/INT ratio, and that's the low water mark for acceptable, nor has he ever thrown for 30 TDs, he avgs 19 TDs and 13 INTs per year.

    Jay Cutler is a cautionary tale, don't be blinded by physical talent, he's been a below avg QB his entire career, yet his ability to throw the ball keeps teams trying, and failing, to get his potential out of him, and in truth, it's my fear with RT as well.

    Jay Cutler is a good back up, that's about all he is imo though.
     
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  8. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Hasn't anyone told you? Jay Cutler is the starter.

    MM would not make it through an entire season and I doubt his arm would either. He doesn't have the physical stature.
     
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  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I will be surprised if Moore is the starter. I can't see Cutler leaving retirement to come in and be the backup.
     
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  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Cutler has a better td to int ratio than Moore. Not by much, but its better. I mean all those things you're saying about Cutler apply equally to Moore.
     
  11. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    It's been a different story since MM got here, he has an 88.8 rating as a Dolphin, about a seasons worth of stats, and the bulk of these stats were when he took over a disaster winless team, who lost the QB, and the HC, and he got that team going in the right direction, winning.

    Last year, with playoffs on the line vs 2 division teams we struggle against, he plays great and helps secure a playoff birth.

    MM has done nothing but earn a starting job with the Miami Dolphins, I'm not sure why people aren't seeing that, imho.
     
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  12. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    OK this is getting out of hand now!!!!!! Jay cutler won 6 games and came in last in 2015!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why is everyone so stuck on one yr like he went to the superbowl, if you want a 1 yr to use as a benchmark then go with Favre's year at Minnesota!!!! cutlers yr in 2015 was decent but if you don't win then who cares!!!!!! a 2-1 td to INT ratio is decent wait check that just under 2-1 but everyone is acting like its was 3-1 or even 4-1 a starting qb check that a 10 yr qb should easily avg 2-1 a yr, and everyone is boosting it up like he was an mvp!!! and if I recall he got no MVP votes!!!! cam ran away with it. So stop looking at 1yr of 11 a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. Why cant people call it what it is, this is a spur of the moment signing on emotion for GASE MM has done enough to start and IMO if I were him id be pissed unless he likes getting paid to not play but he looks like too much of a gamer for all that. You can have high hopes all you want but this is just a lot of money for nothing and cutler wont win 12 games.

    what's unfair to MM if they are having a battle is that he is going to have to play Thursday and next week and cutler is going to get to come in and play games 3 and 4 with the starters MM is getting the shaft and its sad.

    to quote cutler: "Im a qb I don't have to be in shape" pretty much explains everything to me!!!!!
     
  13. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    your comparing apples to freaking hamburgers right now, cutler is a starter playing with starting players in practice and starter playbook, MM has played with backups his whole career and ask to come in on limited starter time on a 4 page playbook and succeed, in all honestly your argument is better for matt moore!!!! common Resnor you usually come with the heat keep it 100!!!!! you cant compare a backup to a starter you know that!!!!!
     
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  14. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    That to me, is Cutler in a nutshell, I don't think he's ever cared about football except for what it could do for him, it's like a clock in and clock out job for him.

    That's why he needs "body language" coaching, lol, so he can try to hide how he feels, iow, ACT like he cares that he just threw another INT, lol.
     
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  15. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    hahah man, you hit the nail on the head, his body language is horrible, ive always said he was a paycheck player. The fact his wife had to talk him into playing is a big red flag, he is 2 games under 500 for his career and you better believe if he was a gamer he would have played for the browns to make sure he wins and try to prove people wrong about him. but no his wife and a 10 mill check brought him back.
     
  16. Dolphin North

    Dolphin North Well-Known Member

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    I agree that we are just as well off, and maybe better off with Cutler, depending on how thankful he is to be playing again after what probably was an earlier than expected retirement. He should keep his head straight for a year or even 2 like most headcases. Even Randy Moss was fine for a couple of years before he called Brady a girl in the locker room.
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Cutler is some superstar, or that he deserves to be the starter. Honestly, i don't see much difference between him and Moore. That being said, I definitely question Moore being able to get through a season.
     
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  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I watched a lot of Cutler video over the past two days and at times, he is awesome. But then there are times where he looks like he could care less that he just threw the game away on two consecutive picks. I'm not sure how much a person like that develops after already retiring once- he may have an incredible year but it can also be incredibly bad.

    With Matt Moore we know what we get- a guy who doesn't have Cutler's arm but makes up for it in communication and vision. Sure, he's one hit away from being retired, but I also think he's our best chance of winning now.
     
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  19. Redwine4all

    Redwine4all Well-Known Member

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    Reading some of these posts, youd think Cutler won "Quarterback Idol"...he wasnt selected by fans or by a blind drawing. The people who put together a roster that won 10 games last year thought he was a good idea. Adam Gase, whose coached both plsyers, thinks Cutler is better than Moore, all of our opinions and stats notwithstanding.
     
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  20. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Finster? Are you high? You do know that MM is not the starter, right? He has half the talent of Cutler and has been a back-up his entire career for a reason. I love the guy because he can come in and win a few games if the starter goes down, but that's all he is...a stop gap.
     
  21. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    You can't compile 7-8 seasons worth of games, call it a "full season" and then claim a player as starter material. There's a reason Moore isn't the starter even AFTER RT went down.
     
  22. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Using wins to judge a QB has got to be the craziest thing ever. I know it's an old question, but do you also think Dilfer, Johnson, Williams, Plunkett, Namath, Aikman, Simms, Hostetler, Eli, Big Ben, (and I could go on) are all better QB's than Marino?

    No one is "stuck on one year". What people are excited about is how well Cutler played on a Gase coached, depleted Bears team. The Dolphins are a Gase coached team with MUCH better skill position players. Gase was able to get the most out of Cutler behind maybe an even worse o-line than the Dolphins have with much worse WR's.
     
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  23. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Res, my man, there is a big difference between MM and Cutler.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes, arm strength. I mean, Cutler is a little better, clearly, since he's been a consistent starter in the league, and MM hasn't. However, I don't see a massive huge difference between the two. Like, this isn't Orlovsky and Manning.
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, i'm with Res, they both seem to me to be strong armed gunslingers with spurts of questionable decision making. Sure Cutler has a better arm but Moore is a better improviser. I can question both their willingness to lead and play too.

    Am I missing something?
     
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  26. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    What would you have us do? Wave the white flag of surrender? He's the best QB available so we should either show him support or clam up.
     
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  27. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    One is good enough to be a NFL starting quarterback. The other is barely good enough to be a career backup
     
  28. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    And that's the reason why I'm pretty lukewarm.

    As for the artlice... don't get me wrong, considering that he already knows the system, I think Cutler is the best option on the table. But to say there's no reason issue to cite regarding Cutler is a stretch.
     
  29. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Cutler is faster, stronger, more accurate, and more experienced. He's also been able to be a legit starter in the NFL for 10 years. I'm not trying to act like Cutler is Manning, but he's twice the QB as MM. IMO...
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Honestly, I feel like Moore is comfortable here else he could be a bottom tier starter like Cutler has been.
     
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  31. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    MM doesn't have a strong arm though. He's not Chad Pennington weak, but he's nowhere near Cutler in that skill. Cutler is extremely good at improvising. Cutler has started 111 more games in the same amount of time as MM. (139 vs 28)
     
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  32. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I get what you're saying. I too think Cutler is going to do a better job for us than Moore. However, sometimes even though a guy has had a longer career as a starter and such like Cutler has over Moore, sometimes it's about fit. Matt Moore looked like a pretty good fit there in this offense. So was Cutler though in Gases' year with him in Chicago, and I think Cutler has more ability than Moore.
     
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  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I know he's started more but that doesn't tell me one is better than the other.
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Why would be do that? Lot less money and playing time.

    Moore had never even started an entire season.
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Moore strikes me as the type of person that realized he had a good thing here and didn't risk it for the potential of getting more.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That does not make sense to me. Moore doesn't seem like someone who is not a competitor.
     
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  37. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    I believe that he's smart enough to realize that he wouldn't make it as a starter on any team not named the New England Patriots. So why go somewhere, get cut, and lose out on any money at all?
     
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  38. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Was bored a bit so I did a quick stats analysis of Cutler vs. Moore using only passer rating.

    OK, first I took the passer rating of every game each QB started, then divided that rating by the league-wide average rating for that year, then multiplied it by the league-wide average rating in 2016, and the result is of course 139 passer ratings for Cutler and 28 for Moore all adjusted to 2016.

    Then I did a t-test for two samples of unequal sample sizes that calculates the probability the two sets of ratings come from the same underlying source (QB), and the result is that the probability they come from the same QB is 64.3%. So from a purely stats perspective these guys are pretty similar, at least measured by passer rating.

    Average adjusted passer rating (across games) for Cutler was 90.39 and for Moore it was 93.16. Given that the average passer rating in 2016 was 87.6 both these guys are only a bit above average statistically speaking.

    Oh.. and contrary to what's been stated a lot here, when you adjust stats to a common year (2016 in this case) Cutler's best year (among years with 150+ passing attempts because that's when PR starts to stabilize) is not 2015 with Gase. In fact 2015 was his 4th best year! Best year was 2007 with adjusted 95.4 rating, then 2013 with adjusted 92.9, then 2008 with adjusted 92.4, and then finally 2015 with adjusted 91.5. In fact, Cutler's adjusted PR tends to decrease by just a tad over time: -0.05 PR points per game across his career.

    OK enough stats lol.
     
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  39. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    The bears team was depleted? Forte, langford, Bennet, Jeffrey is being depleted jesus what else does he need oh and zack millers best year by far, he had that year because of those guys plain and simple. I do believe Miami has a better o-line, but im not simply basing it on wins im merely stating the obvious everyone is looking at 1 year, "1 year" not all 11 years of his career a year when he won 6 games lol, I don't think those guys are better than dan but they are better than cutler hahahah If you want to look at stats im all fine by that but basing a 3k yard year and a 1-2 TD-INT ratio and being excited about an 11 yr man with only 1 year like that is unreal crazy to me specially for 10 mill!!!!
     
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  40. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Did you ever see this one?

    To put the Dolphins' backup, who has played only intermittently throughout his career, on the same scale as more experienced quarterbacks such as Cutler, we can compare the players' expected points added per play over a recent sample of action plays. Because Total QBRdivides credit between quarterbacks and the rest of the offense, we can assign an expected points added figure to each QB.

    Over the past 500 action plays, Moore averaged .102 EPA/P, better than Cutler at .079 over the same span. That was a little better than Tannehill, as well, and some of the other possible options at quarterback for the Dolphins, such as Colin Kaepernick, Brock Osweiler or Robert Griffin III. For context, Aaron Rodgers averaged .159 EPA/P over his past 500 plays, and Blaine Gabbert averaged .058 over his.

    Five hundred action plays are a fairly small sample -- a little less than a full season's worth -- but then again, Moore doesn't have much of a sample size in his career. If we expand the sample to their past 1,000 action plays, Cutler jumps ahead of Moore and Tannehill by a little bit.

    ..................................

    The larger point is that, while the number can change depending on how wide a lens we take, any advantage in projected play that Cutler holds over Moore is slight. Given that FPI already thinks Miami is a long shot to make the playoffs (16.6 percent chance), whatever edge the Dolphins gained by spending $10 million on Cutler most likely will be for naught.


    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20249740/jay-cutler-change-miami-dolphins-2017-nfl-season-outlook
     
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