****The Official 2016-2017 NBA Thread****

No, you are not. They wouldn't be able to sign PG next year, though, unless they traded away at least two of their bigger contracts, I believe. I also think the Heat would have to take back a couple of Cleveland's bad contracts, making it harder to sign anyone big next year. I don't think you'd have to, though. That team would be very good as is if they stay healthy. If LeBron goes to LA, you're battling it out with Boston for the East for the foreseeable future.

 

I would make that trade.

 

I would rather we didn't make that deal. A proven vet PG replacement plus two lottery picks who are 20 and 21...little too rich.

That said, I wouldn't hate it either. That's the thing with this organization: it's easy to live with any questionable/borderline move (like the TJ contract) because we know the FO, staff, and HC are top-notch, and this HEAT culture thing appears to be real. So I'd take it and expect this team will get the most out of Kyrie, while finding some replacement pieces for Justise and Bam like CK said. (I also have a pair of Kyrie 3s, so I mean, it'd be dope if he was a HEAT.)

The other big factor here is having a star in place for future free agents. We're already able to get meetings with the biggest guys. Now add in a 25 year-old scoring machine who has dominated the NBA Finals. That could prove to be a very valuable thing, perhaps THE thing that leads to us becoming contenders again.

 

I'm right there with you. You hate to lose Bam and Winslow but damn, you've got to LOSE something if you want to GAIN something, right?

And I like your logic about how you wouldn't even be losing anything compared to when we went 30-11 in the back half. We didn't have Bam Adebayo last year. We didn't have Justise Winslow during the entire 30-11 run. We had Goran Dragic but I think the move from Dragic to Irving is a plain upgrade.

I think you basically do what it takes. As I've said, the Heat have shown they're great at flipping over rocks and finding gems. But the only guy they've gotten that way that is arguably a true star is Hassan Whiteside. They're good at finding good players, and I wouldn't hesitate to monetize those previous finds in order to pick up a 25 year old star. You can always mine for more gems to re-load the rest of the roster.

 

What Kyrie appears to be doing that is making this difficult for the Cavs is not even talking to them. He's ignoring their phone calls.

He COULD affect things by explicitly saying I'm not re-signing with any team not on my list. I doubt he'd do that. More likely he could influence the process by just overall being a dick and not cooperating. That would PROBABLY make it so that only the teams that have a (*cough*) understanding would be brave enough to pony up.

And I will say that Pat Riley has alluded to more than once over the last month or two how the Cleveland Cavs are in a state of flux or uncertainty, whenever he's talked about the status of the East. He did that far before the news came out that Kyrie wanted to be traded.

 

Soooo, Riley knew Kyrie was unhappy? I get trying to commend Riley, especially after these two past offseason to keep his "legend" alive. But, Im genuinely not sure what you are trying to say here.

And I would guess any team no on the list would demand talking to Irving before exchanging any significant assets for him.

And If Kyrie ignores those teams?? They most likely will drop what they are willing to pay by a lot.

I still think NY or MN are the only real possibilities. The Heat are good enough with Kyrie to make the East very interesting next season. If the Cavs do not at least go to the finals again then bye bye Bron is 100% as opposed to 90% (my guess) Spurs do not have much to give back, so to me its those two teams or an akward 10 months in Cleveland next season.

 

Let me spell it out for you then.

Pat Riley knew that Kyrie Irving demanded to be traded far before it came out to the media that Kyrie Irving demanded to be traded.

I've seen reports that Kyrie actually made this demand a month or two ago.

 

I think if you're operating on the notion that he'll end up going to a team on his list, then I think NY, MN, and MIA are on even footing. I think the Cavs would love to see it work out with the T-Wolves because that would mean sending him to the West and getting a really good young player back in Wiggins. I still don't know that I see Minny making that move, though, for the reasons I outlined previously.

I think the Cavs would loathe to send him to the Heat because Gilbert hates Arrison and Riley, and doesn't want to make Miami a legitimate threat. But I think Miami can offer them perhaps the best realistic package that keeps them as the best team in the East and adds young pieces for the future if LeBron leaves.

The Knicks are the wildcard. He'd still be in the East, but they wouldn't be a real threat immediately. He'd be giving Kyrie a big platform to build his star up, though (a la Westbrook, but in the biggest market in the country), which I'm not sure they are looking to do. What the Knicks are offering is the true sticking point, IMO. It would have to at least be something around Melo and Ntilikina, and maybe a pick. I think they'd ask for KP, and if the Knicks said yes it would be a done deal. But I don't think NY wants to do that, so that's why I say Ntilikina.

Is that a better deal than a potential Dragic, Bam, Winslow/Ellington one? I'm not sure. Melo is the best player out of them all, but he can opt out next year if LeBron leaves (or even if he doesn't). Dragic is locked up long term. That would also leave them to rely on Rose staying healthy and being good enough to start at point for a championship contender. Another scary thing. Ntilikina is most likely viewed by the Cavs as a better prospect than Bam, but we don't know by how much. Winslow would give you an elite wing defender to help guard Durant, or Ellington could be the 3pt threat they've been trying to add that Korver didn't end up being. Personally, I think the Heat's package is a little better because it's safer, but still has promise. Do the Cavs agree? Does the other outside factors overrule getting the better package? That's what we'll have to see.

 

If the Cavs take that poo-poo platter from the Heat for Kyrie Irving I'll buy a Pat White jersey.

 

Kyrie has two years left on his contract. I don't look at trading for Kyrie as a "two-year rental". Whomever trades for him is getting him for at least 2 years. In today's NBA, where stars are signing short contracts to maximize their flexibility, I just don't think that's a big deal.

 

What's a better realistic offer?

You more than anyone should give credence to this notion. How do you think you got Boogie so cheap? You could also argue Jimmy Butler to a lesser extent. And neither of those two were adamant about not going somewhere. Nor did either ask to be traded.

 

I mean...Zach Lowe had deals like Gary Harris, Jamal Murray, Wilson Chandler, and a pick. Or Eric Bledsoe and Josh Jackson and picks. Or Khris Middleton and Malcolm Brogdon!

I know you guys don't think the Cavs have any leverage, but you're arguing with a super connected and respected basketball writer on that one, not me.

I think there are certainly deals that are better than whatever the Heat are offering.

 

Cavs would be fools to pass that one up.

 

Not saying it isn't true...however if people knew Kyrie was unhappy a month ago I seriously doubt it was JUST Pat Riley and the Cavs.

 

Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe are very comparable as far as PGs go. They are very interchangable. Of course, Dragic can actually play defense well, whereas Bledsoe leaves a lot to be desired on that end. Per recent reports, Josh Jackson is not available in any trade.

I don't know why you're acting like Brogdon and Middleton is such a great package conpared to a lottery pick this year, a lottery pick from two years ago who has shown MANY flashes of elite defense and who has a lot of room for growth on offense, and a PG who has a good argument for 10th in the league.

 

I mean - you guys had LeBron. What's good around LeBron? Tall guys that can shoot and defend. That's Middleton and to a certain extent Brogdon.

 

If that Phoenix offer is real, I would think it would be done by now, wouldn't it? That would be easy. But if Kyrie doesn't want to play there, would you really offer that much up for him for two years of an unhappy player?

The Denver offer is ok, but it's not significantly better than the Heat offer, and again, if Kyrie doesn't want to be there, then are you giving up those young assets?

I don't think the Middleton and Brogdon offer is better than the Heat's offer at all. Middleton is a solid player, and Brogdon is a decent young player, but neither of them will probably ever be anything more than that. Plus, then you're banking on Rose to be your starting PG in a title run. The Heat package gives you a PG that fits perfectly in what you want to do, isn't an enormous dropoff from Kyrie, and gives you some perimeter defense you were lacking. Winslow and Bam are also both probably better prospects than Brogdon despite the fact that he was ROY. Winslow averaged slightly more points, more rebounds, and only slightly less assists in the limited games he played last season despite being three years younger.

 

NBA Trade Rumors: Cavs' Kyrie Irving reportedly wants to 'come home' to Knicks
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...ving-reportedly-wants-to-come-home-to-knicks/
via http://cbssportsapp.com

As part of a Melo trade? Yeah ill take Kyrie.

If it involves the Knicks giving up their own picks, KP, Hernangomez or Ntilikina? No thanks.

 

Make it happen. Only player off limits should be KP.

 

We got Boogie so cheap because Vlade Divac is stupid. Boogie wanted to stay in Sacramento. He didn't ask to be traded. Not sure what you're saying. And at worst, Boogie is a 1-1/2 year rental!

 

Vlade is bad, sure. But he also said it was the best offer they got, and the offers were only getting worse. The offers were bad BECAUSE he is a 1.5 year rental. That's half a season more that you'd get with Kyrie. That's why it matters if he doesn't want to play somewhere. It limits what teams are willing to pay. You could maximize your return if you deal with the teams he wants to go to.

 

The Cavs aren't trading with the Knicks, they're trading with Melo himself, who is the biggest opponent of the trade. He doesn't want to go to Cleveland to play with Kevin Love, he wants to play with Kyrie. It's almost a certainty that Kyrie won't end up in New York for Melo IMO.

 

Mike Rice, broadcaster for the Trail blazers, said on Twitter that both Portland and Utah want in on Knicks/Rockets trade involving Melo.

My guess (works on trade machine):
Rockets - Melo
Knicks - Harkless (23 yr old long defender at SF), Joe Johnson (1 yr contract; 6th man firepower), and Rockets 2019 1st round pick
Jazz - Ryan Anderson & Courtney Lee (need shooters to surround Gobert & Rubio)
Blazers - Derrick Favors (they need a dependable PF; 1 yr contract) + 3 Rockets non guaranteed contracts (free up cap space)

Everyone benefits. Let's get it done. Knicks, forget about Kyrie. Lebron is sending him to the Suns for Bledsoe and add-ons. Lebron's buddy, James Jones, now has power in the Phoenix front office. It's going to happen...payback for all the championships and money LeBron brought JJ.

 

I don't think he cares about Kevin Love or Kyrie Irving....he cares about LeBron James.

 

I never said it was.

 

No, Carmelo is just being a douche and trying to dictate terms of the trade which he cant do. He wants to basically join a loaded team. This is why i would never give a NTC if i were a GM...too much power for the player to dictate things. NYK had interest from OKC and Portland but Melo dont want to go there.

 

No, but you obviously have been pushing this narrative as some type of praise for Riley.

And maybe that is warranted, I'm just skeptical.

 

You read something that wasn't there.

 

That's a good point about James Jones, but Kyrie also knows JJ and could just tell him that he won't resign with them...assuming the report about kyries preferred teams was true.

I hope JJ wouldn't **** up his career for Lebron.

 

“LeBron James is doing some LeBron James offseason work. And my understanding is it's not just Derrick Rose, it's not just Eric Bledsoe. LeBron James happens to know a guy named James Jones . . . LeBron James is hustling behind the scenes, is my understanding, asking 'Is Josh Jackson available for Kyrie Irving?' And the answer back that I heard is 'no, he is not.' But LeBron James is hustling on behalf of the Cleveland Cavaliers, at least for this one year."

-Pablo torre

Holy crap. Lebron asked if Josh Jackson is available and was told no. Lebron is hustling his *** off!

 

If he is as hell bent on leaving as many of us think, would he be this interested in Josh Jackson for one season?

Interesting

 

Woj reporting that we are willing to part with Dragic and Winslow as trade centerpieces.

Seems odd that that info would make it out of the HEAT's camp.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers-value-him

 

It came from Cleveland. They're fishing for more. No way we'd put that out there ourselves and do that to Goran/Justise.

Notice we were the only offers pieces that Woj reported. Tells me that Cleveland likes the offer but wants something else. That "history" stuff is BS. This is business

 

It came from "league sources" rather than "Miami sources".

That makes it sound to me like the Cavs trying to get the Heat to increase their offer.

 

I think I buy the "history" stuff. I think ultimately there's a greater will on Cleveland's end to send Kyrie to Phoenix.

But if Phoenix just isn't playing ball...

 

If Phoenix included Jackson it'd be done, but I think if they were willing to include him it'd be done already.

Dragic and Winslow is a good offer. Win now pieces for LBJ. Dragic can replace 75% of Kyrie and Winslow can take a huge defensive burden of LeBron especially in the regular season.

I'm willing to add another piece (JRich, Bam, etc) but I think that's fair

 

Phoenix already came out and said they won't include Jackson. Nor should they. He was the best player in this draft imo.

 

Tim Reynolds now reporting source saying there has been no Heat offer for Kyrie

Obviously that source is Riley or someone in the Heat. Playing media games. Want to protect Goran and Justise as I suspected

 

If the stuff about Miami being willing to give Dragic and Winslow is true, and it's coming from the Cavs this could be a good thing. Of course, it could just be them trying to mess with the chemistry in Miami, but if it's an attempt to get Miami to offer more, then that means we are legitimately in the conversation, and this isn't a pipe dream.

Also, another piece that I'd almost guarantee would be part of any deal on Miami's end would be their next 1st round pick that they can move. Now, obviously this isn't for a while (I think 2022 or 2023), so it's not going to be any kind of major chip, but if it's unprotected it could be valuable. There's a chance Pat Riley will be retired at that point, and a future pick of that kind is what netted the Celtics the #1 overall pick this year.

 

Josh Jackson can't be traded until August 4th or something like that. Same thing that delayed the Kevin Love / Andrew Wiggins trade. I don't think you can trade a rookie until 30 days after they sign their deal.