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Has Ted Ginn lived up to your expectations?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Captain lou, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. big0mar

    big0mar New Member

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    those are just WRs in the past 5 years, and doesnt even include TEs
     
  2. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Banned

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    let's remember though that most of those WRs came in and were made the go to guy from day 1, or were in a system that allows a WR to get a long of yards. We don't have the system of a Detroit,Zona,NO, or Indy, and Ginn was not brought in to be the go to guy right way.

    Hell early success doesn't mean squat, Clayton and Colbert have not done anything of note since their rookie years.
     
  3. Marino1384

    Marino1384 Member

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    Ronnie Brown had alittle over 1100 yards on 239 touches

    Ted ginn has around 1800 yards on 98 touches

    How did he do nothing? You cant really judge a runningback to a wide receiver, a runningback receives the ball without having to be good at route running/ qb play or getting separation.
     
  4. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    He's on a very bad team, but he has done well so far. Our special teams play this year has been horrible, but he has made plays and gotten decent yardage.

    As a WR he has improved steadily. He gets open and catches the ball which is already more than #84 was doing consistantly.

    I think he will get better, but it doesn't seem like he will be as good as Boldin who could have been a fin, or even that big baby who the Browns drafted who could also have been a fin...:(
     
  5. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Hang on a minute.

    He's had 2 TDs called back on returns on ticky tacky penalties. He's also been getting open deep on a reasonably regular basis. It's not Ted Ginn's fault when he gets open deep and Cleo decides to throw to Marty Booker who's double teamed.

    Add in the fact that he was barely on the field in the first 6 weeks of the season on offence through what appears to have been a front office decision to showcase Chris Chambers for trade and his numbers aren't bad.

    Here's a list I've stolen from somewhere else on the interweb:
    I only pulled up the first rounders taken in the last 5 years to illustrate that a top pick at WR can succeed in their first season in the NFL. The reason I'm only going by the last 5 years is because this is an evolving game and I feel going too far back loses relevance, and rules have been changed in recent years to benefit the WRs.

    Stats are: Recptions...Yards...TDs...20+yarders...40+yarders

    Santonio Holmes...49...824...2...12...3
    Braylon Edwards...32...512...3...9...1
    Troy Williamson...24...372...3...9...1
    Mike Williams...29...350...1...3...1
    Matt Jones...36...432...5...5...1
    Mark Clayton...40...471...2...3...1
    Roddy White...29...446...3...4...2
    Larry Fitzgerald...58...780...8...15...1
    Roy Williams...54...817...8...15...2
    Reggie Williams...27...268...1...1...0
    Lee Evans...48...843...9...12...6
    Michael Clayton...80...1193...7...19...4
    Michael Jenkins...7...119...0...3...1
    Rashaun Woods...7...160...1...2...1
    Charles Rogers...22...243...3...2...0
    Andre Johnson...66...976...4...14...4
    Bryant Johnson...35...438...1...4...2
    Donte Stallworth...42...594...8...11...2
    Ashley Lelie...35...525...2...9...3
    Javon Walker...23...319...1...6...0


    Tedd Ginn jr ...23...340...1..?...2(?) throgh 14 games.
    It wouldn't surprise me to see him with about 30 catches and 450 at end of the season (3 catches/game at avge per reception). So he's been about average as a 1st round rookie WR AND he's contributed substantially on special teams.
     
  6. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    It's a fact that the vast majority of rookie WR's struggle to acclimate to the NFL. It's littered with hundreds of players who started off slow. And lets not forget the disaster that is the Miami QB's, and the fact Ginn rarely played with Ronnie in the lineup.

    Ginn will be just fine and will explode next season provided the QB situation still isn't a cluster**** like it is now.
     
  7. phinsoldia

    phinsoldia Season Ticket Holder

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    i agree with you for the most part but i dont want teddy's excuses to be the same as CC's 5 years down the road...(oh he never had a QB to work with)
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ted Ginn has actually underperformed my expectations.

    I thought he would James Lofton type rookie numbers 18 ypc, and 6 Td's and 800 yds.

    His 350 yds, 15 ypc 1 td is not what I had in mind.

    However, three things are conspiring against his achieving those numbers as a Wr:

    1. Double teamed every play, he is our only big play threat, he still works himself open, and he scares Defenses to death..

    2. Cam Cameron's refusal to play him as even a #2 Wr for the majority of the year, it took trading Chambers to get Ginn any playing time.

    3. Cleo Lemon? Trent Green? Beck? Lemon managed to hit him on 50 yd bomb in Buffalo, other then that, literally, we don't have a QB good enough to take advantage of his deep separation, our Qb's cannot get him the ball deep.

    WE can say "Willis" or "Okaye" all day long, we have a thoroughbred deep threat and plow mule Qbs...Now if Ginn could throw himself the ball and chose not to, I can see the complaints...

    As a Kr?

    Ginn has gotten much much better, IMO his foot was still injured at the start of the year and he played anyway, that limited his speed and his stride, now when Ginn steps on the gas on Kr, he really takes off.

    The plus for his play IMO is that he has better hands then I as a Dolfan am used to seeing in a full time Wr for us, he catches everything thrown his way.

    I haven't seen that since the days of Oj McDuffie...for us that is a real plus.
     
  9. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This "but mommy, other rookies WRs are doing this" argument is silly. Those other WRs don't play for the Miami Dolphins. Do you really think any of them come to Miami and put up big numbers? Really? Did you watch any of the games? Ginn has been open behind the D many times. He doesn't get many catchable balls thrown his way, but he is there and open. He gets a safety shaded to him most plays. He has some of the worst special team blocking in the league and still makes you hold your breath on kicks. Those that thought he couldn't catch coming out of college didn't watch him play.

    He plays for the Miami Dolphins; let’s do a quick stat check. He trails only Ronnie Brown (by 49 yrds) and Marty Booker for receiving yards on the team, so he will likely finish 2nd on the team in that statistic. His 1 TD reception has him tied for 2nd That’s right, no Dolphin has more than 2 TD catches, he catchs one tomorrow and he's in first baby! The Dolphins have been bad. He has been a bright spot, and worthy of the 9th pick.

    Yes, I know, Patrick Willis blah blah blah … There has been two drafts that you can say the Dolphins picked the best player possible with thier first pick. Two! Marino and Brown, and not everyone thinks Brown was the best choice. (Ok, maybe more than two, but my memories don’t go back before 1976, and honestly they get real fuzzy around 1980) YOU NEED TO GET OVER IT! This wasn’t Eddie Moore.
     
  10. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    sorry i am late on this thread

    first off i didnt really care for ginn in college, i thought he was overhyped, so natrually i hated the pick and i thought he was going to be a bust

    i am here to say i really like ginn, he has impressed me, he has big time player written all over him, the problem is the playcalling and the qb play, no one has gotten him the ball and the play calls are stupid

    he has gotten wide open many times. and he has great speed, he reminds me of steve smith

    when the qb situation is resolved i think ginn will break out, remember the guy was in a boot for a while and he had really no on field experience for half the season

    just look at his avg yards a play he is a playmaker which is what the phins needed, plus he did not benefit with ronnie being in the game to help him get open on plays
     
  11. Etuoo33

    Etuoo33 New Member

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    Ginn can run fly patterns all day, be as open as you can be, all the while our qb is running for his life or laying on the turf, same thing as Chambers for the last 7 years. I don't think you can make a fair judgement after THIS season. Maybe he is, maybe not, too soon to tell. One other thing is that rookie WR's usually don't do to much in the first year, apparently it takes a while to get used to the holding and bumping, al la that team in bean town used to do.
     
  12. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    some of these negative comments are really bs and bogus.
     
  13. mmikel30

    mmikel30 New Member

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    chambers had a better rookie year with fiedler
     
  14. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think Ginn was a bad pick for the 9th spot as well!! ;)
     
  15. thedayafter

    thedayafter New Member

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    Ginn displays the same negative issues that were on the table prior to the draft... He is not a physical player... he lacks quick feet and explosiveness in small spaces... he struggles with the jam and physical CB's...he is not an accomplished route runner... and he will drop some passes due to lack of concentration...

    At best... there remain... reservations... at worst... doubts... but if Cam was correct when he compared Ginn to Desmond Howard... clearly it will have been a wasted pick... time will tell.

    In closing... IMO.. at 9 Ginn represented an "accessory" when what we really needed was major moving parts.... you can bet that won't happen again in a Parcells draft...
     
  16. zachblitz54

    zachblitz54 Juck The Fets

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    Yes. Awful blocking on special teams and a terrible ST coach and he STILL took three back for TD's (Not his fault that only one conunted). I like what he did as a first year return man. As far as WR goes, it is very hard to judge him with the QB situation and the awful play calling. Given these situations, I think he did about as well as he could have.
     
    Colorado Dolfan likes this.
  17. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ginn lacks quick feet?? Did you actually write that?

    Geez.......

    Anyone who thought Ted Ginn was going to come in and catch 100 passes was an idiot. 95% of WR's struggle as rookies. It took eric Moulds 3 seasons to turn into an All Pro. Calvin Johnson was the 2nd coming......he's hardly set the Motor City alight has he?

    When this team is better, Ginn will be better. His return ability, with a better ST supporting cast is going to give us tremendous field position that few teams outside of Chicago and Cleveland will get. He'll strengthen up, especially in the lower body in the off season and I absolutely can see him catching 75 passes and taking 4/5 back for touchdowns in a couple of seasons.

    All these people calling him busts should also aim that charge at JaMarcus Russell, Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, Jamal Anderson, etc. etc.

    I think it's much more sensible if players are given 3 games and 1 quarter to prove whether they can play in the NFL. If they can't, then lets trade them. I spent the winter reading the idiot responses on things like the Miami Herald blog and wished for FH to come back.......only to see the same nonsense here.

    Laughable.
     
  18. thedayafter

    thedayafter New Member

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    Yeah... I wrote that.... and in case you missed it last Sunday... the announcers commented that Cam thought that Ginn needed significant improvement with his work in small spaces... he needed to get better "feet" ... they agreed....so yeah... it confirmed what I posted long ago... or maybe you didn't watch the game... I think Ginn shows his speed in space.. the trouble is... in the NFL there's not a lot of it.... unlike the college game.. you get that!

    And so when I write... there remains at best.... reservations... and at worst... doubts... and ultimately we'll have to wait and see... that's my opinion.... clearly there was no mention of bust in my post... so I suggest maybe you have the response that's "laughable"...
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2007
  19. dolfan121

    dolfan121 New Member

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    yeah but then ginn caught a wr screen and simms said that his speed in tight quarters was very good, so what game were you watching?
     
  20. finserg

    finserg Well-Known Member

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    I like the guy and i hope he improves but i dont see him being any better then welker.
     
  21. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Great, a couple of announcers run with it and 'whoosh', it's a story. Clearly the Patriots game which is the one you're referring to , is the first time you've ever seen Ginn. Having fast feet doesn't matter if you're playing in the pros, Little League, Lingerie Bowl, etc.

    As for the rest of what I wrote, after paragraph one, the rest wasn't aimed at, or about, you. So ease off on the God complex.
     
  22. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    His job isn't to be any better than Welker. They're not a straight swop.

    And Welker wasn't a better WR than Chris Chambers when he was in Miami. The reason he's so good with the Patriots is he's matched up on safeties and nickel corners and playing the slot inside Randy Moss, Ben Watson, Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth and catching balls from Tom Brady.

    Welker is no better than Kevin Curtis or Mike Furrey, etc. He's just in a better situation.
     
  23. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Gentlemen, please calm down and stop with the namecalling. It is a passionate subject for sure but please try to address that and not each other.. thanks
     
  24. dirtywhiteboy

    dirtywhiteboy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    not sure why you even bother with the nonsense boom. go enjoy that corona!:ffic:
     
  25. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    LOL. Thanks DWB.

    Ignorance is bliss huh. And yet it's a staple diet here.
     
  26. big0mar

    big0mar New Member

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    i would really like to see you back up your claim that 95% of rookie WRs do bad

    atleast provide the numbers for first rounders
     
  27. dirtywhiteboy

    dirtywhiteboy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    it sure is bro...
     
  28. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    Ginn was still nursing an injury and was too green when Trent Green was playing.

    Lemon is too inaccurate to take advantage of Ginns speed.In addition Ginn is not a polished receiver...... yet.

    His routes are inconsistant and QBs have trouble finding him.

    The offense was dumbed down for Beck.He wasnt in long enough to develop a rapport with Ginn.


    In short it was not an ideal situation for a rookie WR to step into.There was no stabiity at QB,the play calling was questionable , and the talent around him was sadly lacking .

    IMO he is going to be a good one once he has a decent team around him.If after three years he hasnt showed any improvemnt then we should worry.It takes that long to reach full potential for a WR.
     
  29. RollieGotFingered

    RollieGotFingered New Member

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    What is Ginn's upside? A faster Welker/Curtis/Furrey? I hear names like Galloway and Smith thrown around, but both those guys were much better receivers coming into the league than Teddy. Guess it depends on how much he improves and works.
     
  30. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    one of his pluses is his work ethic. It will be fun to watch.. because you can bet the special team stuff is going to be addressed.. and if our oline can get fixed his deep abilities can be utilized. He has already demonstrated soft hands and great over the shoulder ability.. and if they press and obstruct the deep move, Ginn can kill them with the quick slant off the press.
     
  31. High Definition

    High Definition No Smoke / No Drink 2011+

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    Question:

    How many 50+ yard TD's did Cleo Lemon short Ted Ginn out of?

    I counted about 3, maybe 4.

    I'm talking about plays where he was wiiiiiiide open down the field.
     
  32. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A bunch KiNG, the radio guys would mention that Ginn was open deep, but "Beck/Lemon" didn't see him....
     
  33. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    The day we drafted him I thought he would end up being a Lamar Thomas for us more or less...

    So far...

    He has slightly exceeded those expectations but not by much...

    We'll see...the jury is still out on him...
     
  34. big0mar

    big0mar New Member

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    dwayne bowe stepped into just as bad of a situation as ginn
     
  35. High Definition

    High Definition No Smoke / No Drink 2011+

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    We're talking about 4 TD's (maybe more) where he was blatantly wide open & overthrown vs. 1 that actually shows up on the stat sheet, and about 200-300+ more receiving yards. We're also talking about 2 KR's ran back for TD's where holding was called either on the opposite side of the football field, or way behind Ginn's pace.

    Overall, that's 6 TD's that he was screwed out of by teammates. He has 2 total official TD's.

    Otherwise, 95% of us take a different approach in responding to this thread if we had a rookie KR/WR who has contributed 8 touchdowns to our offense & special teams. 8 vs. 2, man. 8 vs. 2.

    What a difference thanks to Cleo Lemon, Derek Hagan, & Greg Camarillo. What a difference.....

    EDIT: Yes, I'm aware of the woulda, coulda, shoulda being implied here by Mr. King himself. I'm just stating the facts. If it doesn't show up on the stat sheet, at least we know what he is capable of doing having seen it with our own eyes. I mean, the guy blew ahead of Asante Samuel by 5-10 yards (that's big time) like he was Travis Daniels or something -- AND he had safety help.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
  36. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Robert Meacham stepped into a much better one, so what's your point?
     
  37. big0mar

    big0mar New Member

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    that the excuse is bogus

    some players may take longer to develop. but to say that being on the dolphins makes it impossible for a WR to do well is erroneous. there are WR that do well on bad teams.
     
  38. phinfanuk

    phinfanuk Season Ticket Holder

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    I think maybe you're selling short the ability of Damon Huard and the season he had last year. Fair enough the Chiefs have been poor, but they still had LJ in the backfield and no other notable target at reciever other than Bowe, especially after Kennison went down.

    Yes, Brodie Croyle came in and hasnt been fantastic, but he isn't a rookie like Beck. You can't really compare Ginn's situation with Bowe's in the way that you have.
     
  39. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    but we are REALLY bad... there simply aren't any relevant comparisons to how bad we are.. we were improving until injury wrecked that, but our qb play would make jerry rice look like crap.
     
  40. gofish1331

    gofish1331 New Member

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    The only one who lived up to my expectations this year is the waterboy, no reports of de-hydration!:thumbup:
     

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