What is the best course of action for Jarvis

They should have seen enough to make up their minds on him by now as to whether he's part of the plan or not moving forward. He's shown he can play and be highly productive. He's obviously going to be coveted by the league of he his free agency. So, if they intend on keeping him, they should be trying to extend his deal asap rather than letting him hot free agency IMO.

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I would think that locking him up to a long term contract before the start of the season would be best. I can definitely see him holding out this year if they don't.

 

I'm not sure how they can justify extending all the players we have without doing him the same..

 

I'd rather not let it get to that point to be honest. Too rich on the tag IMO. If internally they know that they do not want to lose the player, and they want him part of the plans going forward, then just get the deal done, and get it done now before he puts up potentially big numbers in a contract year, and starts getting wind of his value if he was to hit the open market. Personally, I just believe that if you have seen enough of his game on tape (and you should have by now) to make a decision one way or another, just... get the deal done. Everyone knows there's rules on tampering, but if you don't think that as the season winds down without a new deal for Landry that him and his agent are going to start hearing interest, numbers and targets from other teams then you're crazy. You're already going to pay a lot for the guy, he's proven that worth, don't let yourself get into a bidding race with anybody else.

I agree with DJ's point too. If at this point you've made this offseason a focus of keeping your own, and building something special, and retaining players that want to be here, and you don't focus on doing something for Landry... You've done something wrong IMO. You can't justify those deals for those reasons, and not do the same with the heart and soul of your team in Landry.

 

I also wouldn't blame him if he did. He's clearly more often the not the focus of the passing game. He's clearly the heartbeat of this team. You've spent an offseason retaining your own, building something special etc, etc. You shouldn't be leaving him out in the cold like that if you intend on keeping him. If you let him go the year without an extension, as I mentioned previously, you can damn well be sure he's going to catch wind of teams willing to meet whatever demands he may have. Get him now, while you can if he is indeed a part of your plans.

 

I have a feeling Landry is looking for a monster contract which is why it hasn't been done yet. If we get a good deal out of it sure, but if he wants elite WR money then I say wait till next year or let him walk. I don't think he is going to put up much better numbers than he already has, and losing him I don't think would be devastating for us we are deep at WR.



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I think the iron is hottest for Landry right now. Next year you have Julius Thomas entering the fold, a healthy (hopefully) Devante Parker, a resigned Stills, and a known commodity in Jay Ajayi. He might be seeing fewer touches than he ever has in 2017.

 

If there is one guy on the team that you absolutely have to do right by, it is Jarvis Landry. That guy gives it all no matter how bad our team has been and no matter what the score is. He is the heart and soul of the team. If we truly are changing our culture in Miami, this is where it starts. What do you think the morale in the locker room would be if we let him go or nickel and dimed him? Sometimes a contract is more than just a contract.

 

I think you could easily make the argument that we aren't deep at WR actually. Sounds crazy... maybe.

However, Stills is here long term now, we know that. However Carroo... they invested a lot in him, and he can't sniff the field and lost snaps on special teams to a nobody as the season went on.

Jakeem Grant just couldn't get involved in the offense, for whatever reason... whether it was limited snap counts, or poor execution, we don't know, but if he was good enough, they would have found more ways to involve him. Apparently they tried a lot, but game situations just didn't dictate it. The fact he's only got a special package of plays as opposed to any part of the playbook concerns me a bit, but it could simply be the guys ahead of him are better on a consistent basis, but I think Grant has a ways to go though, much like Carroo.

That leaves you with the curious case of Devante Parker. Clearly he has the talent, size and the athleticism, but apparently not the mental side of it to go with him... sure he can hopefully become more of a pro this year and avoid the injury bug, but I'd be very cautious betting on him over Landry at this point too. Everyone else down the depth chart at WR just isn't worth getting into in this discussion at this point either.

You've essentially got Landry, Stills, Parker based on value to your offense in that order, then you've got everyone else who hasn't proved much. There's potential down the line, but I wouldn't want to call that deep, or call Carroo or Grant solid options to replace Landry based on what we've seen so far from either of them. You can say we are deep from a body standpoint, yes, but I'm not so sure they're quality options... yet.

Personally though, I get where you're coming from. I'm just not sure if any of the "depth" you're referring to is even close to being able to replace what Landry brings to this team both on the field with the ball in his hands, and without. He's an emotional leader, Gase is apparently in love with what the guy brings. He's more than that.

 

You are right that caroo and grant are unproven, but in the case of caroo he has the skillset to play the slot effectively which is basically what landry is a slot reciever. They didn't invest three draft picks in caroo in order for him to be our fourth reciever. The reason he was benched last year had more to do with his poor special teams play than his poor play on offense, he just didn't get many touches because he was fourth on the depth chart and we just don't use many 4 wide receiver sets without a tight end.

He did show some flashes and he cleaely has talent, it's just a matter of him learning the offense and his assignments and getting enough opportunities.

Grant has a very specific skill set I don't see him as more than a gimmick player on offense with special plays. I'm not counting on him to be an everydown threat.

Landry does deserve to get paid due to his production and tremendous leadership, however I don't believe we should break the bank and pay him elite WR money because he just isn't an elite WR. He has no speed to threaten deap and has no size, leaping ability or ball skills to be a consistent red zone threat. He is one of the legues best slot recievers but specialized slot recievers generally don't make elite money.

I say pay him well, but don't overpay him with an elite contract because he just is not elite. If he demands an elite contract then we have a cheaper option in caroo who could play the slot and who we already invested heavily in.

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Pay him. Pay him now.

 

Jarvis is an elite WR.

He runs great routes, has decent speed and great hands. His attitude and competitiveness can't be overstated.

The Dolphins better pay him.

 

So what you're sort of saying is... in order to avoid overpaying Landry, you think you can replace him with Leonte Carroo? You're ok to advocate for overpaying Guards in free agency, but not spending money on the guy who's essentially your top WR and if you can't strike a deal with him you want to replace him with Leonte Carroo? The guy who couldn't stick on special teams, and the guy who couldn't get playing time or any sort of production in the time the Parker missed? I'm not so sure that's a good strategy unless somehow Carroo comes out this year and looks like Jerry Rice all of the sudden.

I don't disagree about not paying him like a top 5 wr though. I think he should (hopefully) realize that he's great, but doesn't exactly have the impact that a Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, AJ Green, etc, etc has. So, I'm with you there in a sense.

 

See now this is where you go off the deep end.

Landry does not have decent speed, he is quick, but he is not at all fast. He has not been able to get behind a db his entire career and I've watched pretty much every game since he has been a dolphin. He runs 4.77 40, that's defensive end or slow linebacker type speed. He also has virtually no hops, he is just quick with great change of direction skills.

He is not an elite wr overall, you could say he is a great slot reciever, but not an elite WR overall.

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More lies.

Landry runs a 4.5 40. That's pretty ****ing decent. And that's not to mention his game speed. Which again, is decent and not at all "slow linebacker type speed".

(You're probably just Googling his 40 and seeing his combine numbers. Right? Because he hurt himself at the combine, but you wouldn't know that)

*Edit: What's funny about you looking at the combine is that you didn't even look at all of the combine because he ran a faster 40 than the 4.77 there too. haha

 

And to help out hitman8:

Former LSU wide receiver Jarvis Landry shaved a full tenth of a second off his 40-yard dash time at LSU's Pro Day Wednesday.

Landry ran the 40-yard dash in 4.51 seconds – more than a tenth of a second better than his disappointing 4.65 time in the 40 at the NFL Combine last February in Indianapolis that featured various tests, agility drills and timings like Pro Day.

"I'm ecstatic," Landry said. "I guess I silenced a few of the critics."

Landry led LSU in receptions, yards receiving and in touchdowns as a junior last season with 77 catches for 1,193 yards and 10 touchdowns.

"He can run," LSU offensive coordinator Cam Cameron said. "The coaches who came here, they have no doubt what his speed is – his game speed. He carries his pads well."

http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/...receiver-landry-makes-pro-day-splash/7532545/

 

True, he ran 4.51 at his pro day 4.77 at the combine. But he is not at all a deep threat and he has never gotten behind a db as long as I have been watching him. Nobody is afraid of jarvis landry's speed. He also has no hops.

He is very quick, but definitely not fast. He is a great slot reciever, but overall he does not have an elite skill set.

In terms of production he is also not in the top 10 even though he gets more touches than anybody else on the offense.

He is around the 16th best wide reciever in the league production wise, he should get a contract that makes him the 15th or 16th highest paid wideout in the league to go along with his production. However if he wants to get paid like a top 5 reciever which is what I supect he is asking for then I think it's preferable to let him walk.

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Yeah, he's slow.

Here he is outrunning Calvin Pryor for a 66 yard TD.




You must have just missed that game, huh? lol

 

No I didn't miss that play. I knew you would throw that one up that's about the only play I have seen landry out running someone, but if you look at it carefully landry took the right angle to get away from him and pryor looks like he's half assing it while landry is going as fast as he possibly can.

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He's not slow. He's not that fast either. He's fast enough for what he is. He's very very football smart, savvy. Yes, he outran a 4.58-4.6 safety that took a bad first angle (and had to correct when you see it from behind). He's not going to outrun most CB's that are covering him.

Can you argue he deserves more than what Baldwin got last year, adjusted for capflation? Or about the same? Sure, pay the man ... unless the man wants too much. I'd say he's in the Allen/Baldwin area, not the Bryant/Jones area. Let's see where he lands

 

In reality, however, that safety has about the same speed as Landry.

 

I never called him "fast". Hitman8 called him "slow linebacker slow". I said he has "decent speed".

 

Pryor really does look like he's half assing it on that play. Is that at the end of the year when they started quitting

 

I know you didn't. I'm just piling on.I quoted you but not everything has to be about you

Jarvis has okay speed. Okay speed WR can be dominant if they're big, hoppy, or very strong. Landry is really good. But not top 5 money good. Let's see where it goes.

 

He let up once he realized that he wasn't going to catch him.

However, Landry has 4.5 speed. That's not "slow linebacker" speed. In fact, average WR speed is 4.55.

I'm not going to move the goalposts.

It was hitman8's assertion that Landry doesn't have decent speed and is "slow linebacker" slow.

 

To be fair to Landry though, we don't really ask him to use speed to blow by DB's. We don't ask him to be a deep threat. I'm sure he could do it, maybe not consistently, or regularly, but I think he's got the skills to do it, however He's so good with his cuts and his routes that we don't have to. He's a great tool to work underneath and as you said his exceptional ability to change direction and accelerate, and use his toughness makes him deadly. I'd easily call him elite at some things. Does he have elite speed? No. Does he have elite quickness as a WR? Absolutely he does, and yes, they're two different things completely. He's got speed though. Not elite top end speed, but his silky moves and route running make up for that lack of top speed. That's the quickness I'm talking about, and I'd rather have that really.

As for saying his production has him 15-16th overall, so he should be paid 15-16 overall. In a perfect world, sure that would be great. However that's not how contracts in the NFL world work. I suggest you separate yourself from that thought process. It just doesn't happen that way.

 

Depends on what your top 5 consists of.

Is he top 5 total WR? No. Is he top 5 for a WR with his skill set, ie slot, possession or whatever label someone wants to give him, yes.

Best offensive linemen are broken down further into T, G, C, etc...

He has more catches in 3 seasons than any other WR in the history of the NFL. (Tied with Beckham). He's on pace to beat out Larry Fitz for the most receptions in 5 years.

 

I dunno if he has elite quickness even. Julian Edelman I would say, does. Looking at their prodays 3.92/4.59 20 yard shuttle, and 6.62/7.56 3 cone.

What Landry brings is football savvy, toughness, decent speed, good quickness, great hands, good routes etc. It's not a perfect package but a very complete one.

 

Well if a RG wants to be paid as much as an elite LT then you have a problem. I have no problem with him making around Baldwin. I think Baldwin the better player but capflation etc.

 

Landry doesn't need to outrun DBs, he runs them over. Most catches by a WR in his first two years. What was he, 15% of total offense last yr? When they HAD to have a play, and EVERYBODY knew where it was going...

Tell me sumthin, who in the last twenty years has been a more valuable, vital part of the teams success from the WR position? (Slot, flanker, 1,2,3 what the flip ever! Guys who run fast and catch footballs for fun and profit, OK?!)
Sorry Aqua but...Chris Chambers? Best of the rest maybe but not even close IMO. Ted Ginn? Bess? Who???
Kenny just got paid, he worth more than Landry? Don't think I buy that.

Seriously, PAY.THE.MAN.

 

5/60..

 

Seriously, we are discussing his 40 time. I am laughing out loud. Who cares what his 40 time was? The question is, does he have football speed? Ted Ginn Jr. had all the speed in the world, but did he translate into a starting caliber receiver, nope. Think about this Teddy "Lightning" Ginn has 309 career receptions but "Slow-man" Landry has 288. So what gives? Football speed is not the same as track speed. Just think about this, how many times in a game does a receiver run in a straight line without someone knock them off his route? Almost never. I honestly don't care what his 40 time is because it doesn't matter. He looks fast on Sundays and that matters. I would love to see the footage of linebackers chasing down Landry - lol. What has this board come to?

 

No man...he's slow linebacker slow...haha

 

The discussion was regarding Landry's speed, and 40 times are relevant to that. Nobody ever said he was football slow. He is very quick with great cuts, lateral quickness and change of direction ability. However in terms of straight line speed he is not very fast at all and in order to be a deep threat in this league you need to have good straight line speed.

Landry I think has never run a deep go or fly route in his NFL career. Not because we would'nt want him to, but because he just doesn't have the speed for it and wouldn't be very effective going deep.

Again this is not to say he is football slow overall, just that he doesn't have the speed to threaten defenses deep. He also is not very big and does not have much leaping ability to be a consistent threat in the red zone.

Landry is a great football player and leader and he is well worth a big payday, I just don't think we should pay him top 5 reciever type money because he just isn't a top five reciever.

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lol...Moving the goalposts again, huh?

 

I don't think so. He's prone to hyperbole but he said in his very first post Landry shouldn't get elite money but a multiyear contract is good.

Would you pay Landry $15m a year? $14m? What do you think he is worth?