Like it depending on the price. Now for the love of god can we trust the PFF rankings and get one of the top guards available and another competent guard to complete the offense rather than relying on yet another early round interior OL miss in the draft. All the pieces on offense will not matter when the interior OL continues to bring down the entire offense year after year, both in the running game and then eventually in the passing game.
For the love of god can we trust the PFF rankings? What the **** is in the water where you are? Is it crystal meth matched with ridalin and crack?
The PFF rankings are terrific year in and year out and are one of the only widely available grades for what actually goes on on the football field as opposed to your blind, biased eye that isnt watching every player on every play for every team. They are the best out there telling you who is good, specifically on the offensive line.
Lmfao. I love it. Just out of curiosity where exactly do they get these experts in every offensive system in play, let alone defensive systems and also know what each and every players' assignment within those schemes from? You'd think those guys would be employed by the NFL teams themselves no? But yes, I'm completely clueless about the subjective grading system manufactured by guys who were friends and originally funded by one guy who got a kick out of it.
They are employed by NFL teams oh snarky one. There are quite a few NFL teams who use PFF's grading system. And there are multiple people who do every game and every player, so it is averaged out. Much better than your biased view of your hometown team while not having access to the all 22 angles and without watching every player in every play in every game for every team. Not to mention the best and most thoroughly prepared analyst out there in Cris Collinsworth thought they did such a good job after seeing what they did that he literally spent millions of his own money to invest in the website. So ya, im gonna take their unbiased, film oriented grades of every player over your completely uneducated biased view of your hometown team.
Oh of course they are. I'm sure the NFL is just picking their brains apart each and every day. And the all 22 tape? I remember having that from a few years ago via NFL.com. Damn son, how many years behind are you? Since you know ****loads, quick give me a site where I can get access to hundreds of college games without using cash.
So are you watching and dissecting every play and every player in that play, in every game, for every team, all year, without biases towards the Dolphins? Didnt think so. Considering quite a few NFL teams are investing money into the services from PFF, and no one is paying your message board posting *** then ya, im gonna take their view going back over a decade on every play in every game over your additional information fearing ***.
To further exemplify the PFF is damn good at what they do, the exact number is 24 nfl teams paying them, using their resources, for the service that PFF provides. You're posting on a message board about how they are nothing. Any NFL teams knocking on your door asking for your uneducated opinion based on not watching every player in every play in every game for every team?
This is the best **** all year. Information fearing? Are you George Orwell's long lost son? And in fact someone does pay my message board posting *** - it's called an employer. Just to summize for you: you never said that I wasn't paid to post, you just said no one is paying my message board posting *** which it turns out was a bit of stretch of logic based on an emotional overreaction. But keeping going, it's fun seeing other forms of creating fire than rubbing two sticks together.
Jesus you sound absurd. Way to purposely stretch what i said and argue the semantics of each individual word I used because you know i'm right. Is anyone NFL team paying your message board posting *** to spout your uneducated opinion? Let alone 24 NFL teams subscribing to your grading system of every NFL player for over the last 10 years? Anyone connected in the NFL give a flying **** what your opinion is on anything NFL related? Let alone 24 different teams paying you for your grading system? And yes, to knock the PFF rankings and not take their grading system as incredibly helpful for determining what players actually are is the definition of information fearing. You dont have to think they are the end all be all, obviously, but to sit here and act like they arent significantly more informed than whatever biased nonsense youre spewing here is flat out ****ing stupid. But please do tell me your opinion on interior OL and DL play as if you have 1/100th of the information and film preparation of the guys at PFF.
If you had any kind of point to make you'd actually make it. You know you sound absurd to discredit the opinion of people who watch 1000X more film on every player in the league than you. LMK when 1 NFL person cares at all about your uneducated opinion, as opposed to 24 NFL teams paying for your deeply rooted in actual film and reality and consistent grading method.
Is this serious?? pff is a subjective grading system that occasionally reminds you why you can't put much credibility into it. Remember this? https://www.profootballfocus.com/why-aaron-rodgers-earned-a-slightly-negative-grade/ That's pff's attempt at a justification for giving Rodgers a negative grade when he had 333 passing yards, 5 TD's no INT's and a 135.8 passer rating lol. Anyway, the idea that NFL teams are willing to pay what is to them utterly tiny sums of money to see someone's analysis doesn't mean that analysis is gospel. There's a reason NFL teams have their own analytics guys.
Please tell me where i said their analysis is gospel. In fact i have said multiple times in all these posts that they are not the end all be all. But they are significantly more informed than any opinion you will find on any message board like this. And while raw stats do tell what happened overall, they dont tell you the real story most of the time. That is why what PFF does goes above and beyond the opinion of people on a message board looking at raw numbers. For example, their rationale for that negative grade is this in that article: "Context is crucial with everything in football, and if you believe we are saying that Rodgers had a poor game last night because his grade has a minus in front of it, then let me set your mind at ease; I do not think Rodgers played a poor, subpar game last night and neither does anybody else at Pro Football Focus. Rodgers did his job last night, but his job was executing simple throws, putting the ball quickly in the hands of receivers like Randall Cobb in favorable matchups on short throws, and allowing others to do the heavy lifting. But for a couple of poor plays, his overall grade would have matched the sort of grade that you would be expecting to see from him, but those poor plays, coupled with the relative ease of some of his scores mean his performance last night was far closer to average than it was to the fantastic performance the box score suggests. The context surrounding his grade is crucial." That is a much better analysis than anything you will see from watching the game on TV once or just looking at the raw stats. And that is why their opinion is much better than anyone you will see on a message board like this. Just like why raw TD/INT totals arent all the same. CONTEXT MATTERS. and that is why what they do in reviewing the film of every player on every team for every game is a hell of a lot more informed then just about anything else you will see.
Is PFF a cult? And yes, guy, phins18, you have been doing nothing but regurgitating their stats in every post. You are taking it as gospel.
i havent said one stat of theirs in this thread. Specifically in a post i made 50 minutes ago i said "they arent the end all be all." But to deny they arent vastly more informed than just about anyone you will find on a message board like this is flat out stupid.
Well.. just reading your initial posts that's definitely the impression you gave me. You know like post #7 where you say "PFF rankings are terrific year in and year out" and that they are "the best out there telling you who is good". Without arguing about the semantics of "gospel", I wholeheartedly disagree with your trust in their rankings. That Aaron Rodgers example is a good one. Just doesn't make sense, and you can talk "context" all you want.. their rankings aren't consistent, meaning that they'll justify their rankings with whatever kind of "context" they prefer. As stated before.. it's subjective. Anyway, pff rankings aren't total crap.. they do contain information, but it's the kind of "take it with a huge grain of salt" kind of thing, at least for me.
well considering their rankings are pretty consistent with who gets the biggest deals in free agency in years past and who is viewed as even the top players on the market this year, i'd say they are pretty damn good. Especially on the OL, DL, LB, and CB side where the average fan is not watching it nearly close enough during the game or going back and watching the all 22 for every player on every play. They are the best site out there that does what they do just about. They are also one of the only ones available to the masses like they are, but they are pretty universally the best. It is subjective in the sense that just about everything is subjective. Any opinion or grading based system in sports is subjective. Your opinion on them is subjective as well. But they have a more informed opinion which of course is somewhat subjective but is based on actual tape and what actually happens on the football field rather than someone who sees the dolphins are interested in Timmons and goes "Wow, a name i know on a good team, they better get this done!" when in reality he hasnt played well in 2-3 years. I like information. Specifically, i like incredibly informed information. And that is exactly what they are. You dont have to agree with every grade they give, but to deny that they are exponentially more informed than just about any information out there is flat out ignorant.
But they aren't gospel??? I'm beginning to think there's a language gap here. As for the bold, I guess that means McDonald's has the best food since they make the most money, right?
Football Outsider's DVOA is also subjective at heart, even though they are more quantitative in their methodology. Yet they get a higher correlation with wins than pff. So no I don't see evidence pff is "the best" out there at what they do. I think you're too enamored with information. That's only half the equation. You have to know how to analyze that info, and there's no real evidence the graders at pff know how to properly contextualize raw stats for example. It's probably why they do worse than DVOA (and I don't like DVOA either, especially because they aren't transparent).
Again, believe it or not, you can take quality and informed information in and digest it and value it, while also having an opinion of your own. That doesnt make what their grades are the end all be all, they make them an incredibly informed opinion with which to merge other valued opinions. My whole thing isnt to make you think they are the final word on how good every player is. My thing in how this all got started is that they are 100X more informed than any opinion you guys will spew on here. I dont care what your opinion is on players or PFF, are you really gonna tell me they havent done 1000X the actual research and work on evaluating players that everyone on here has? Have any of you evaluated every player in every play for the dolphins in any year, let alone every player in every play for the entire league for the last 10+ years? I value informed and researched opinions. I dont have to agree with every word. But i value their opinion as incredibly ****ing informed. And 24 NFL teams paying for this as well shows that they do as well. They arent paying millions of dollars. But they arent paying people on message boards like this a single cent. And Cris Collinsworth is just about the best football analyst out there, him investing millions of his own money into it makes their opinions even more validated. As to your horrific mcdonalds analogy, not even going to get into how bad of an analogy that is or how horrific of a comparison that is to what PFF does.
My analogy wasn't about PFF, it was about your justification of what a good player is. That's why I specifically bolded that part. As for the rest of it, I'm still convinced there's a language gap. You are basically fellating PFF as the greatest thing ever, then saying they're not the end all be all. These two things don't really match up.
DVOA is great as well. Like i said, "one of the best." The fact that you think it is possible to be too enamored with information shows a complete philosophical difference. and im fine with that. But there is no amount of information that can be too much. You can both have a huge amount of information and know how to analyze it as well as view the relative importance of that information. This whole thing got started by me saying we should go after one of the top PFF guards and not settle for guards in the draft because we have failed miserably in the draft at guard and the guard position has shot our offense in the foot for an absurd amount of years now. The top guards on the market are Lang and Zietler (I believe thats how you spell his last name). Those are not only the top guards on the PFF grading list (and have consistently rated as some of the top guards in the league for years) but they are the top guards on the market by any reasonable insiders standards. That's literally all i've said. And guard needs to be solved through free agency. One of the top guys is desperately needed. Our interior offensive line has shot our entire offense in the foot for years now. We havent been able to run the ball consistently because of ineffective interior line play due to poor drafting and injuries, which has led to a horrifically inconsistent running game, which has led to a lot of 3 and outs due to long 3rd downs that our offense isnt suited to convert like a team like the pats or say the falcons. I'd be horribly dissapointed if us re-signing Branch to an absurd contract (if the reported terms are correct) and Stills leads us to trying to fill 2 guard positions with a lesser free agent and a draft pick.
Jesus christ what is so hard to get about saying their grades are valuable information and incredibly more informed than your opinion or anyones opinion on here while also saying they arent the end all be all. You can value incredibly informed and unbiased opinions while also not taking them to be the only thing you rely on. And no, the more appropriate analogy would be what the average person is willing to pay for a specific meal, not the net profits of an entire company. Thats like saying whatever the most profitable team is in the NFL is the best team rather than saying the market has definitively determined that Prime 112 is the most valuable meal in miami and that the entire market has determined that it is worth the most. The net profits of the restaurant is not at all comparable to the point i was making and that was a horrific analogy.
Well.. in practice you see the greatest predictive power when you limit the amount of information to something you might call "just manageable enough". You see it everywhere in science. Put too many parameters in a model, or hypothesized mechanisms in a theory, trying to incorporate too many types of data and the predictions get worse because your lack of understanding of the relations among the various kinds of data begins to swamp any theoretical increase in predictive power. As to the guard question, that to me depends on money. If we have to prioritize, I'd rather spend on LB than guard. Anyway, with Gase I'm less inclined to hold past failures against this team, so I'm not opposed to solving it in the draft. I guess making the playoffs takes the sting out of a lot of things for me and I'm willing to just wait and see what the FO does more than before.
But you're not really doing that. You've based your entire argument on PFF and then off-handedly throw out there, but they aren't everything. You've done that in the face of a number fo people giving you alternate ideas and you keep coming back to PFF is great. The analogy is fine. You said, essentially, the players rated the best get the most money proving the ratings are right. Which is like saying McDonalds gets the most money so they are the best.
No, again, that analogy is horrific. That would be saying the best NFL teams make the most profit. You are taking overall company profit and making it applicable to the individual meals at said company/restaurant. Again, the better analogy is whatever individual meal you think is the best. you might think that you can get better bang for your buck for a quarter pounder, which is what teams like that pats do around their superstar prime 112 meal. But people would pay more for a steak at prime 112 than they would for a quarter pounder because it is a much better meal. you might be able to get significant value from a quarter pounder, but that is on a per dollar basis. It is not really arguable that a prime 112 steak is the better option all things being equal.
Good talk. Maybe you should further explain my love for PFF with another horrific analogy that completely misses the mark!
You've proven in this thread alone you don't understand things outside of the grades given to you by a company. You seem to lack the ability for critical thought. Which is cool, you do you.
I dont understand things outside of the grades given to me or i value when someone with a much more informed opinion than me gives me their opinion on things like interior line play that neither you nor me actually knows what we're talking about? Not to get into politics, but for someone who likes analogies, thats like saying Trump is killing it because he is foolish enough to believe that his uneducated opinion on stuff like foreign affairs with which he has no experience is better than generals who actually know what they are talking about because in your ****ed up analogy this somehow means that he is "thinking more critically." Critical thinking involves delegating to the opinions of people who know more than me and have vastly more information than i do. Now if you want to tell me that you've watched every player and every play from the last 10 seasons, maybe ill give your opinion some weight, but when i know you have an opinion that is based off simple fan research and very limited actual film homework, if any, i'll go ahead and give their opinion infinitely more weight than yours. And before you counter with the same point yet again, that doesnt mean that they are the only opinion to take into consideration. Believe it or not we are blessed with incredible cognitive ability that allows us to take in tons of information from many different sources. Mind blowing, i know.
As has been explained to you, the people at PFF don't have more informed opinions than you do. You don't know how PFF works.
