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Ryan Tannhill led us to the playoffs not Matt Moore

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    He completed 3 passes the entire 4th quarter. lol...
     
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  2. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Perfect! RT makes an errant throw while hit and he sucks...hahahaha
     
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  3. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    I never said that. But this is usually the route these arguments go.
     
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  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And two of those were needed to win the game. You obviously are not seeing what everyone else saw. Five years, Cold off the bench comes in is only asked to throw five times complete three of them which were absolutely necessary to win the game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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  5. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Don't forget in pouring rain.
     
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    He came in with a 21-9 lead. His first 3 drives stalled
     
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  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The eight games thing isn't necessarily about the QB. It's about the entire offense. Tannehill was the only one who knew what was going on the first four games. Moore is playing with an entire offense who knows what's happening.
     
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  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Matt Moore, and he gets credit for that.

    But who was the QB that threw for 3 TD's before Matt Moore came in? Tannehill was the QB most responsible for that win against Arizona. So without taking anything away from Moore's GWD, I think it's fair to divide credit up more or less by attempts.

    7.8 vs. 2.2 wins for the two QB's seems fair, at least to me.
     
  9. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Or as Armando put it, referencing baseball, he's 2-0 with a Save.
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    His first three drives were all run plays to torch the clock. Not a single pass thrown- we're holding that against him as well? His handoff technique must be the reason why that happened...
     
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  11. danmarino

    danmarino Tua is H1M! Club Member

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    Provably false. Have you ever heard of a "game log". They are easy to find on what's known as the "Internet".

    His second drive ended with an incomplete pass. (3 and out for that drive)

    He was 1 for 2 in his 3rd drive. (another 3 and out)
     
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  12. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    I feel like this board goes nowhere unless jdang and friends can complain about Tannehill. Making the playoffs has done nothing. The most active posters are dead set on agendas and completely disregard the current state of affairs.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2016
  13. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Here's a little nugget to chew on:
    passing offense.png

    Note: The passing offense is now up to 18 since Moore took over.

    And maybe its time to dust off those threads where we discussed Luck's win/loss performance in 1-7 point games and what we thought that meant.
     
  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Is it PLAYOFF time yet??
     
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  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Not sure exactly what point you want to make (maybe you should spell it out?), but first thing I'd point out is that using DVOA rankings really muddles the discussion, especially with respect to what it means for a given QB.

    There are just so many (arbitrary) aspects of the methodology that produces DVOA that it's hard to know what a particular DVOA ranking actually means for a QB. Details about methodological problems with DVOA (or at least what's known about it because they're not that transparent either!) I've gone through in past threads.

    I'd just use offensive rankings by points per game, or if you want to look at QB's do it by passer rating (make sure to adjust for era if you want to compare to Marino etc..). Those are totally transparent approaches and much easier to interpret.

    Miami is currently 16th in offensive ppg, and currently 9th in passer rating. Moore's contribution to the passer rating ranking can be seen by noting that we'd be a tad lower at rank #12 if we use Tannehill's 93.5 rating.
     
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  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not really. Do you have a quote on that? Gase has publicly confirmed they pulled back on what Tanny was asked to do. As recently as Baltimore they admitted they were running a more simplified offense. It's what sparked the success the team had. It's also what Lazor did in 2014.

    Eric Weddlle is very familiar with Gase back when they were both in the AFCW

    http://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/20...nehill-and-ravens-safety-eric-weddle-notices/

    Gase confirmed Weddle was right. Yes it was on the offense as a whole, but it's also mostly or at least significantly, on Tannehill.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...djustments-helping-tannehill-dolphins-succeed

    Nowhere did he say The QB could handle it, but the rest of the offense couldn't handle it.
     
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  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dafuq?

    I've said several times I'm impressed by Tannehill's year and look forward to next. even defended him against posters who think he should be cut or traded.

    What I take issue with, is people overinflating what Tannehill is, underinflating what Moore has done.

    Now it's about dude's not getting laid? If you can't debate football without making personal comments perhaps you need to find a new hobby.
     
  18. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Maybe read the title of the thread before sounding silly.
     
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  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    He is worse than most, and almost worse than THE worst. But not quite.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  20. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Football Outsiders doesn't think our passing offense is very good relative to all the other passing offenses in the NFL. I know you have a problem with them because of a lack of transparency or whatever but you have to admit they have a pretty good track record. Also, if its useful, and it is for me, its an easy way to compare passing offenses over different eras.

    Statistically, the team isn't really as improved as what people perceive. We're benefiting from playing the easiest schedule we've faced since FO started tracking it in 1989 and we're 8-2 in 0-7 point games. Is that the Gase effect or is that plain old variance? We'll see but personally I'm going to need to see a repeat before discounting variance on that front.
     
  21. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Tannehill looked improved this year and Moore is doing what he has done his whole career. Can't wrap my brain around the trashing of either. I realize complaining is the new black but wtf.
     
  22. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Oh I totally agree with that. From a pure statistical point of view we don't know if there really is a Gase effect (personally I think Gase is the real deal but that's not based on stats).

    Anyway, here's the passer rating rankings from 1983-2016 just for reference:
    https://i.imgsafe.org/5c67e289ac.png

    It will take a few years before I can do a solid statistical analysis (so ask again in several years haha) but yeah the passer rating ranking for 2016 is certainly within variance expected by Philbin's crew.

    btw.. note how big an effect Pennington had in that graph!

    Oh.. and in a another post in another thread I also showed our expected wins with average strength of schedule is 8 wins.
     
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  23. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Hey I'm not getting laid and my football opinions are second to none.
     
  24. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm trying to understand one little fact that keeps popping up about the 2016 Dolphins....what an easy schedule we had. Why is it NEVER brought up about the Patriots? or even the Bills? same identical schedules. I'm not saying our schedule was not easier but it is never a thought brought up about other teams
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because the Patriots have won superbowls. You see, you can't say, well Tom Brady/Rodgers etc. had a bad game, because they have a history of great play. When you don't have a history of greatness, and you have a bad game, there tend to be more of them because you don't have a history of greatness.

    Sometimes the great ones get into a funk but you expect them to get out of it. When you have a qb that's never really finished above 14 or whatever in passer rating, well, even if they get out of their "funk" it's right back to the middle of the pack. They don't have enough GREAT games to overpower the bad to mediocre ones to be considered great.

    I saw some great improvement in Tanny this year, but at the end of the day, what's put on the field matters, the scoreboard matters, the stat sheet matters as well. Statistically, his play during the win streak wasn't all that different from 2014, and he had a good stretch in 2015 as well.

    So looking at him individually (and not the team success which was a result of his good play and insane running by Ajayi) will he start off hot next year and stay hot through the year? If he goes cold for 7 games and hot for 8-9 games, then what?

    Same with the Patriots and Dolphins re their schedules. Yes they had the same schedule and could very well be 14-2 or 13-3. 4 games without Brady their QB.

    And that brings us back to Moore. Granted, Moore has played two subpar opponents. But the more he wins (if he does) the less important Tanny looks to the team's success. It's the Cassell argument.
     
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  26. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    If Tannehill is ready to go for the playoffs you go with him, but I don't want a RGIII situation happening to him.
     
  27. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I dont see anyone complaining about Tannehill. There are comments about Matt Moore though.
     
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  28. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    But in the past we would have lost some of those games. All good teams win the games they should.
     
  29. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    F'ing bizarre. It's fine to like and support Tanne, but to attempt to downplay and diminish what Moore has done is just beyond foolish.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I don't think that is what is actually happening.

    If we rewind a bit, we'll remember a certain contingent of posters have used "not leading the team to the playoffs" as a plank in their anti-Thill platform. A dumb plank, but a plank nevertheless. The OP, admittedly, very ineloquently, tried to make the point that just because Thill was injured before the playoffs were clinched doesn't mean he didn't lead the team to the playoffs.

    Since then (in this thread and others), you've had people from the pro-Thill side say they're happy Moore is playing well and that he is an excellent back-up, while you've had the anti-thill side go ape**** with things like avatars and sigs, creating threads Thill is done, Moore can produce just like Thill for a 1/4 of the money, blah, blah, blah.
     
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  31. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya', but the title itself kind of set the tone. I haven't read through the whole thread, but, for whatever reason, i see posters trying to downplay what Moore is doing in their attempt to support Tanne. I don't think that's the right way to go about things. I'm psyched we have two good QBs. I am so happy with the improvements Tanne has made to his game and certainly give him credit for getting us to the playoffs. Anything else would be asinine. I also think it's amazing what Moore has been able to do after riding the bench and practicing with the second team for so long.

    The group saying s--t like "Tanne is done" are just a bunch a f'ing a--clowns. They are not even worth being dignified with any sort of response except something like....."a--clown!" Ha Ha!
     
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  32. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    A microcosm of society friend.
     
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  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, as I said the OP wasn't very eloquent.

    But what happens is the anti-thill (AT) crowd is taking small silly things to argue in favor of Moore being the starting QB regardless of Thill's health, so when those things are argued against by the PT crowd, it comes across as blasting Moore.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2016
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  34. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Revisionist history. Gase said earlier this season that it was the rest of the offense that wasn't on the same page. Receivers running wrong routes, offensive linemen blocking incorrect assignments. There is nothing in your quote even that points to tanny. It just said the offense was simplified, not why
     
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  35. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I beg to differ just a bit on this point
     
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  36. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    What's funny to me is seeing you tell everybody else that THEY don't understand football, lol.
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Right. He bolded the part about alot on the QBs plate, but didn't bold the part about alot on the receivers plate. I don't have the quote, but I know Gase was talking earlier in the year that specifically Tannehill knew what was going on, but he had to keep setting other players up on the field, and the offense couldn't run smoothly because a bunch of players didn't know their assignments.
     
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  38. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    So far, MM has played in very poor weather conditions, and played very well.

    That's the thing though, the fact that he has been playing very well has all the RT guys in a flutter.

    Not sure why people can't be happy we have good QB play.
     
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  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's funny that the people who consistently bash Tannehill are the same ones telling us we should all be happy with good play...yet they never were happy with Tannehill.
     
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  40. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Someone created a sig about Tanny being done? You're a damn liar.

    Only one person created speculative thread that Tanny was done after the Jet game - you should probably take it up with that person instead of incessantly whining about masses of boogeymen. The only other thread created was one for people to believe in MM8 while Tanny was out. Of course guys like you couldn't help but try to shat all over it with your "Yeah, buts" and "This is Tanny's team still".
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
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