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I think Vance Jospeh is over his head

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Dec 24, 2016.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is nearly entirely gibberish.

    The defense got exposed in the Baltimore game because the Ravens ran a bunch of zone beating concepts that they didn't really have a history running. They threw out something unexpected, and to suggest they didn't adjust really doesn't reflect the reality of the game- you're still putting 2-3 backup-quality defenders into underneath zone coverage every play that aren't capable of making the necessary plays. Even if they react to the unexpected 100% well you've got huge physical issues on top of it.

    Speedy receivers had nothing to do with it.
     
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  2. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Really? Earl Mitchell is a bum, Phillips should still only be a pass rushing option at DT as he's a one of the key reasons were poor at run defense. Andre Branch is about as equivalent to a Derrick Shelby. Folks are just more amazed he hasn't been a total bust that he's getting overrated by far. He's a rotational guy who shouldn't be starting. Jason Jones is another key reason this defense is poor at run stopping. Constantly bites inside on outside runs. That whole side of the defense is the side getting massively gashed in the run game. Kiko should be playing weakside as he's too light and out of his league stopping the run in the middle. Howard will be a good one, but he's still learning and BARELY played this season. IAQ is alright. I liked that signing but thought he'd do a bit better. He's merely been adequate and now he's also gone. Maxwell is alright but only when you play to his strengths. Your limited in what you can call defensively. The moment he went out the Dolphins started calling different defensive packages and more man coverage. Mitchell/Jones, maybe Maxwell and Branch likely won't be here next year. Phillips still needs to make a huge step up in his 3rd year. Kiko probably gets moved to weakside.

    A lot of these guys you've mentioned
     
  3. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    Yeah sure, im sure the speed of Mike Wallace and Breshed Perryman had nothing to do with Josephs soft *** zone coverage lol. Thank God Frank's hit that kick, because that call on 4th and goal from the 7 was terrible.
     
  4. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    Earl Mitchell is a bum lol, agree to disagree. And Andre branch is equivalent to derrick shelby who went undrafted at 6 2 with about half andres speed. Very different players, Andre is a much better pass rusher and Jason Jones has ALWAYS been a quality football player. Not to mention Joseph has 2 potential hall of famers to work with, that's pretty rare.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They didn't exploit the underneath coverage by putting stress on the corners zones. They weren't forcing the corners deep and throwing outside underneath them because of it. They attacked the underneath zones on their own merits, and it didn't really matter how the playcall divided up that area.
     
  6. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    The zone coverage wasn't working, Joseph should have adjusted. If u want to see how a team with mediocre corners should play a dangerous wr corps watch the Philly giants game from last week. Their corners and lbs were physical at the los but they kept 2 safeties over the top all day, that's how it's done. Baltimore isn't that much more talented than us, but they were much better coached imho.
     
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  7. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    What people say about a possible head coach means zip, nada, zilch and as a Miami Dolphins fan you should know this. Cam Cameron, Tony Sparano, Joe Philbin all were mentioned as the next great coaching candidates! I will say he should get another year with some more talent but he may need some help. We have to shore up or Middle of the defense or teams with any offensive talent will rink and dunk us for 600 yards in the playoffs. We're also going to need to address our dline. Wake can't continue at this pace with his age, MARIO Williams hasn't been offering much help.
     
  8. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    We knew going into this season that our defense would have challenges and that was before we lost Jones. I feel better about CB although they still need to develop. LB has to be the top priority this offseason. We can't give up 270 yards on the ground and expect to be successful long term.
     
  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    we have 10 wins without being able to stop the run.
     
  10. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    There are times I think he has made mistakes, but overall I like what he has done.
     
  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Dolphins started off the season running those kind of coverages- Vance Joseph's coaching career has predominantly been as a split safety/man coverage(or quarters) guy. It didn't work here. Your corners can't play man coverage, they can't play the run fits that defense would ask of them, and you pretty much need a safety in the box to stop the run.

    What you're advocating in terms of the Ravens game basically fixes a problem you don't have in order to create new ones.
     
  12. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    The fact that anyone criticizes anyone on this coaching staff for anything is ridiculous. This is a 4-12 roster as it stands today.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Taylor is the most sacked QB in the league, 42.
     
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  14. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Howard got schooled by Watkins in this game, he really struggled keeping up with Watkins, I hope he learned something, he also got away with a blatant PI in the EZ, so it could have been worse.

    Alonso isn't a true MLB, and we have no space eater DT, which is why we struggle vs the run.

    LBs and secondary are substandard, although Jones, IAQ and Rambo will be a very solid trio at S when they are all healthy, Rambo saved some real cheese out there in this game, not saying he's great, but you could do a lot worse for a 3rd S.

    LBs and CBs should be the focus of this offseason imo.
     
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  15. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Most of us we stunned that we took NOTHING on D in the draft (beyond a 5th rd db). LB was a need going into the draft. We lost a solid, if unspectacular, Koa Misi (as usual), and an all pro Safety. VJ has been playing with a bunch of broken pieces. I think he's done about as good a job as anyone could hope for with what he has to throw at opponents.

    I want to see what he can do with a couple of good D drafts, which should be DE and LB heavy.
     
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  16. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    The irony, to me, is that our defense seemed to be suffering much more from bad scheme than the affect of bad talent. But, give Buffalo a lot of credit in terms of having a lot of misdirection and variety. On every play there was doubt about whether Taylor was handing off or keeping. This slowed the pass rush a lot. Every play was shotgun and the option to run or pass existed. The lack of pass rush really hurt the secondary, which was also playing without Maxwell. Maxwell is not a good starting NFL corner, but he's not worse than most backups and his absence left more inexperience on the field. Plus, Rambo is still young and doesn't have that many games of experience, either.
    Because of a lot of factors, Miami D were 'headless chickens' out there much of the day. I would've liked to have seen more double-coverage on Watkins but I think we needed the safety help to keep those running plays from becoming TDs because McCoy and Taylor kept getting into the third layer, much less the 2nd. So, by the time the D knew that Taylor was definitely passing on a particular down, the safeties had to scramble to get back, and the receivers had all day to pull moves on our CBs.
    Outside of Suh, we're really struggling up front. On run plays Wake and Branch offer little resistance unless it's in pursuit on a lateral play, and if the side the team runs to gives up the edge quickly, then our pursuing end has no chance.
    Gumball (that's what I call him) said the Dolphins were 31st against the run. Yikes! I think part of this is the running QBs we've faced. Kaepernick gashed us and Taylor gashed us.
    Why do you think our LBs struggle? Is it being unable to shed blocks, misdiagnosing the play and getting caught out of position and practically blocking themselves, poor strength at POA? If we're looking to improve in the draft or FA, what kind of players do we most need?
     
  17. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    Our second round pick was a corner who will be our best CB by the middle of next season, so you can't say we took 'nothing until the 5th round'.
    Just a heads-up there, brah.
     
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  18. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    "Or when on a 4th and goal on the 7 Joseph decides to get cute with the game on the line and have paysinger drop into coverage from the los instead of just simply rushing 3 or 4 and dropping 8 like an experienced DC would do in that situation, imo of course."
    Michael Thomas has to jam Clay better there and slow that play down. You can't blame scheme when a defender is within a foot of the ball.
    Guys gotta make plays.
     
  19. iamtiv

    iamtiv Active Member

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    I don't think the DC of the 31st-ranked run defense in the NFL is gonna get offered a HC job.
     
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  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    OK then, so what was the bad scheme exactly?

    Did the Dolphins expect the backside DE to play both options? Did they run scrape exchanges? Did they not adjust to arc blocks?

    That's literally the scheme- instead of having ends play C-gaps and spilling the run to the outside, the DEs are the guys responsible for shutting down outside runs and forcing it back inside- the problem is when you don't have the linebacker or safety play at this point.
     
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  21. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    Completely disagree. I know Joseph has had a ton of adversity to deal with in terms of injuries but that doesn't absolve him from all criticism. Same with Gase, he's had an unbelievable season, but it's not like he hasn't made a single mistake to criticize as you imply. For some reason it's o.k to critique every single mistake Tanny makes but the coaching staff should be completely absolved from all criticism to some lol. I member when we played Cincy on that Thursday night and dion sanders was literally laughing at our chances to make the playoffs. Well guess who's laughing now lol, this team is more talented than people give it credit for and it's been that way for a long time imo, just glad we finally have a coaching staff that can put it all together. I love this coaching staff, all of them, but that doesn't mean I won't criticize them when they do things like get blown the f out against bmore, who lost to Pittsburg, who we blew the f out earlier in the year. That was a poorly coached and played game, pretty sure even the coaching staff knows that. I just hope they improve which they will given their ages.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  22. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    In all honesty I think joseph needs to step up his game, his inability to stop teams on any down and long distance is driving me insane, he never uses a 2-3 dime defense to add more db's and he brings absolutely no pressure so our 1 on1 get burned and our lb's are stuck covering, there is a reason everyone picks up long yardage plays on us consistently, to beat big ben wake and suh need help. he is going to need to bring constant pressure, this is going to be a tough task, I think the d line can coral bell for an avg day, but im seriously worried brown is going to do whatever he wants unless we can be in bens face. I felt we beat the bills easily not just by a fg, I felt vance let them hang around too much, he needs to step up the pressure in my opinion. none the less we got the W and finally back in the playoffs. I am a big charger fan this weekend hoping the chiefs lose and we can get Houston and not pitt, im afraid what might happen up there in the cold.
     
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  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Aren't they, like, #1 in the NFL at stopping 3rd downs?
     
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  24. RealDolphinsFan2

    RealDolphinsFan2 Member

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    Well said and very true. Joseph needs to be more aggressive at times imo, but luckily we have a lot of under rated talent on this team like ajayi and lippett who are a huge part of this teams success. Love how very few believed in us to start the year, I always did simply due to the absence of queasy Joe and my belief in Tannehill.
     
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  25. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    yes im not talking third and 4 and short im talking long yardage situations I don't even know if that stat can be found but I would bet on anything 15+ we give up the most first downs, its seems like every time its 2nd and 20 or 3rd and 15 and I get excited about a punt here is a 3 or 4 man rush with a 15 yard completion or 25 yard screen pass, something to keep their drive alive.
     
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  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Seriously, between this and the dialed up plays this tells you all you need to know
     
  27. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    YIKES! I guess since he was out for what feels like 10 games I totally overlooked him.
     
  28. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    I think he's done a solid job considering he has an aging defensive line, no linebackers (Kiko is fine but is out of position) and a paper thin secondary. The progression of Lippett and Maxwell throughout the season is inspiring.
     
  29. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't have to worry about him much longer - sounds like he's going to be Denver's new HC.
     
  30. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    I hope so....then they can have one of the worst defenses in the NFL.

    Miami's defense is ranked 30th. He should be fired. I would rather have one of the Ryan brothers.
     
  31. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, thank God you aren't calling the shots.
     
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  32. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    LMFAO.
     
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  33. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Another terrible game by the defense today against the patriots. Don't know how you think the man who directs one of the NFLs worst defenses is a great coach. Only thing Vance has shown in his career up to this point is that he is a pretty good DB coach. Aside from that he has accomplished nothing.

    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
     
  34. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Have you taken the time to look at the injury report, and the overall level of talent on the defense? The fact we're going to the playoffs with that group is because of Adam Gase, Vance Joseph and his staff.
     
  35. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    Lack of talent and injuries isn't an excuse. VJ's defense allowed 600+ yards against the Bills and is ranked 30th in the league. That's more than enough reason to fire him. Look at all of the missed assignments and tackles. Man, that comes down to coaching. VJ is a DB coach at best. I pray that someone hires him as their HC and I hope that they play against Miami next year "easy win". VJ doesn't deserve any credit for Miami going to the playoffs. It's actually funny that people think that this guy is getting HC interviews. Maybe for high schools....
     
  36. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    I stopped reading at your first sentence because it is an excuse. A valid one.
     
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  37. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    lmao, right... It's like calling into work once a week due to your kids getting you sick. See how long excuses are going to work for you. The fact is that VJ is a bum.
     
  38. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not an excuse. It's a fact. One that you want to continue to overlook, so you can over-react. Missing one player... I'd say excuse. but 5 or so starters? That's not an excuse anymore..
     
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  39. evo8904

    evo8904 Active Member

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    It's not an over-reaction at all. VJ is nothing more than a position coach. Just wait for Denver to pick him up. They will be lucky to break even with him.
     
  40. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's an obvious over-reaction. You're saying our coach sucks. Even though we've won 10 of 16 games. Sure, the defensive numbers aren't ideal, but... when you win 10 games and go to the playoffs while missing the majority of your starters on the unit you're responsible for... you're probably not the problem. Especially when you look at the specific players on that unit, who have improved and progressed significantly from last year under this staff. Again, you're over reacting, it's not that hard to see. Vance Joseph is not the problem with our defense. It's really that simple. Or maybe its just easier for you to point the finger at the coach because that's... the simple thing to do. Either way, I'm not wasting my time with this debate anymore. It's just, not worth the time.
     
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