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Why You Should Believe in Matt Moore

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by KeyFin, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Wow, we're going to play the "almost game" now? That would almost make sense if we were talking about Dora the Explorer.
     
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  2. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    dont speak for me...ever

    The tom brady with legs thing was literally after his rookie year and from a actual pre snap reads and decision making aspect yeah there are similarities...i had no idea hed be surrounded by incompetence for the next 3 years

    Care to enlighten me on your username over there or were you just lurking? Ha ha
     
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  3. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    You're correct...better wording would have been "should have"

    thanks
     
  4. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I have nightmares of edelman working our lb level in tbe middle of the field for easy pitch and catch

    You have to take away edelman...but vj says in his d they dont gameplan for a specific player

    Yikes

    Not to mention the win option bennett vs kiko or whoever the other nickle is in carry coverage
     
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  5. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I don't know why you'd get angry, guys, some of these people are obviously trolling, hoping to get a reaction, nothing more, just smile, do this

    [​IMG]

    and go on, enjoying your day



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  6. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Lies. He never almost threw three picks.

    Damn I thought you were bad on HF but this stuff is even worse. You are definitely not a Dolphins fan.

    Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  7. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Yea that was a horrible post.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    18 throws...shouldn't be hard to do a play by play analysis of each one of them when I get home...I've done these things on tannehill more times than I could count
     
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  9. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Hoops is a refreshing newbie to our community. Dude is well informed and knows his ****.

    Hope you stick around.
     
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  10. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    He's a newbie here but well known at Finheaven. I don't usually post there, but every so often I lurk and read some of his stuff. Keep showing up Hoops, you've been a great addition to the site. :up:
     
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  11. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    Hoops is so good I followed him here. He's posted player evaluation stuff I've seen show up in games that I otherwise would not have noticed which is pretty cool. I just wish this thing didn't have to be Tannehill vs Moore (not faulting Hoops for that) but just we have a really good starter and a competent backup.
     
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  12. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually, he did. Maybe not 3... but he obviously threw one, we know that. I know there was another one that shoulda been picked but was dropped by the defender, and I think there was a another that was dangerously close as well. So, one for sure, plus two more close ones, if a break goes to them that could have easily been 3, or at least two. Of course, "coulda, shoulda woulda, maybe" but his point is still valid, it's not "lies". Especially when turnovers have been Matt's undoing in the past. Sure, the outcome was great, and the job got done, but against a better team, that hasn't basically quit things could have been a lot different.

    So first, stop it. Second, you've got a lot of nerve accusing someone else of not being a fan, and implying someone else is a troll. Just stop and we'll all be better off.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  13. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    He made 2 very clutch throws on 3rd and goal for TDs as well as the Stills bomb. The Landry TD was all Juice.

    He made the throws he needed to. And the stat line didn't need to be impressive as the game was done by the 3rd quarter.
     
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  14. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's amazing, really, I didn't see almost anything from certain posters for like, two months.

    Then Tannehill gets hurt, and they show up, stirring the pot.
     
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  15. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Wait till we win a playoff game....rofl
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but we can also rewind the tape back and see multiple INT drops thrown by Tannehill in almost every game this season. What does it mean? Absolutely nothing. If we have to play this ridiculous game though, then Tannehill has far more "almost interceptions" on the year than Moore does.

    I'd rather play the fact game-

    - The Dolphins had their biggest margin of victory for 2016 last week
    - The Dolphins had their most TD passes of the season last week
    - Matt Moore currently has a 129.2 rating on the season, which is best in the NFL

    I realize that some of you are absolutely in love with Tannehill. I like him a lot too. But that doesn't mean we have to try and invent ways to bash Moore in order to validate what Tannehill has done in 2016. If anything, that's just admitting the faults in RT's game.

    We have two very good QB's...why is that not enough?
     
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  17. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I agree 100%. While I do not think Moore is as good as Tannehill, it is comical for me to watch the same group of guy's try to pick everything apart. It isn't comical because they are necessarily wrong.....its comical because we all know if Ryan played thee exact same game you would here cries of Pro Bowl and Elite. A lot of these guy's can't get past their own bias.

    Also, can we relax on the "competition" thing? Maybe the Jets quit in that game but if so it wasn't until they were already getting that *** kicked. Also, these are NFL players and the talent differential is not nearly enough to turn a 4 TD 1 INT game in to a 1 TD 4 INT game. You know who's secondary is worse? The Browns, do we want to relive how our QB played at home vs a likely winless team? No. So why all the hypotheticals when we win on the road on national tv vs our hated rival in December!?

    Just insane.
     
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  18. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    i don't really care about the opponent...matt moore has no control over that...what I do care about is situationally outside of having a 7 to 0 scoreboard to "overcome" you in ideal scenarios for the qb which is what that game was from that point forward be it scoreboard or how Miami had to play it on offense which that 18 throws clearly illustrates put the ball in potential harms way at a about 20% clip

    and if anyone can provide me with an example of tannehill doing a similar thing under ideal scenarios I'm all ears cause it doesn't exist...less than 20 throws is the definition of ideal qb scenario

    if that harms way rate doesn't raise your eye brow so be it...it raises mine

    It will be interesting to see what this tape says but i know the vast majority of throwing into potential harm is a direct result of no head and eye discipline

    it jumped off the screen real time
     
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  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Well.. there's definitely one good thing about this Matt Moore debate. The two sides are making very different predictions about what will occur @Buffalo and/or vs. NE. So how MM plays can really settle a good portion of this.

    One side thinks MM gives us at least as great a chance or possibly even a better chance to win the remaining games while the other side thinks at least one or possibly both of those two opponents will expose MM for being no more than a backup QB that can't hold a candle to Tannehill over multiple games and opponents.

    I think that's good that the predictions are so different. Jets game doesn't prove KeyFin right, but it is consistent with what he said.. @Buffalo will be really interesting!
     
  20. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why people call that a simple slant as a knock on the qb...it's not...it's like last week when tanny hit landry and he broke 2 tackles for 71 yards

    you don't discredit the qb for executing the throw and matt moore placed that dead on for rac...that was a very good play...he stared at it but that's fine given the 3 step I think it was...none of his tds were plays that should be downplayed...anyways my break down will go over it
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You can apply this to 75% of the QBs in today's NFL. So long as he's identifying the favorable matchups it likely won't be problematic.
     
  22. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    completely false
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Cant argue with that logic.

    *goes back to Club*
     
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  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember glowing reviews when we beat teams like the 49ers and the Rams...and we basically squeaked by against bad teams. We finally get a dominant win, largely due to Moore's reads. Moore didn't even throw a pass in the last 1 1/4 quarters of the game...that's how freaking dominant he was. Our offense played the most complete game of the season, yet all we're hearing is how Moore almost messed up. It's ridiculously ironic.

    And the QBR being a small sample size? That has nothing to do with Moore...we can only judge him on what he's accomplished on the field.
     
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  25. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    so when he id'd the man to man coverage and the safety location pre snap on the corner route to stills that was almost fair caught by the safety even though he had the right read pre snap and threw the ball where it should have gone according to coverage his lack of head and eye discipline in his drop allowed the safety to just flow laterally to his eyes and flat footed make a play on the ball in the air

    sorry but that's not even remotely correct...you can't just id the right matchup and forget about the things you need to do in your drop and say if they make a play on it oh well I did my part

    that safetys job is to maintain depth "as deep as the deepest" and flow laterally to the ball reading the qbs eyes

    if he holds that safety with his head in the center of the field in his drop before going to his intentions that safety has zero chance of getting there
     
  26. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    i was most surprised with how comfortable he looked uder pressure, knew exactly how much time to throw and where to step up in the pocket to buy a few extra miliseconds. just need him to limit the mistakes, better the defesne plays, less pressure moore will be under to score.
     
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I never said he played a perfect game. I said so long as he IDs favorable matchups, he will play well enough for Miami to succeed. He certainly will have his share of bad plays, but he also will generate enough big plays for Miami to move the ball.

    This is great - but only a handful of QBs do this in practice, and there are plenty of teams that win in this league without QBs moving defenders with their eyes.
     
  28. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    They would have preferred we eeked out a win, where Moore had a pedestrian day. That way it wouldn't threaten their egos.

    Their very existence on this site these days is tied to the success of a one Ryan Tannehill. They will pretend to enjoy last week's win or any potential future wins, but really with so much focus on the negative it's clear it's tainted for them.
     
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  29. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    name these qbs who don't hold safeties with their eyes in their drop and let them or lbs just flow to the ball in zone or single high or 2 deep or cover 2 even and what you are talking about concerning favorable matchups and being "ok" I already acknowledged...but let us get behind the sticks and the scoreboard and see where zero eye discipline gets you...it's called ints and guys jumping balls and routes

    the only qb I know that "gets away" with the lack of head and eye discipline and people go goo goo over is Russell Wilson and he's a one read concept primarily qb who breaks out instead of going to his 2nd and 3rd progressions...and seattle uses a lot of 4 vertical concepts and has the luxury of a defense that the last 3 years has given up 6.5 ppg the last half the season...yes that's right 2 field goals on average per game which means seattle in those seasons has never had to break script on offense and expose the qbs lack of eye and head discipline

    hell I've seen whole postseason games where seattle in the passing game worked off nothing but pa...that's called a luxury

    this Miami d isn't even in the same ball park...we got to expose a horrid qb Saturday otherwise they'd have scored some points cause he left a lot of things on the field
     
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  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Wait.. by "last half the season" you mean games 9-16 right?

    Here are RW's stats (including scores) for all games he's played:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00/gamelog/

    In 2013, last half the season Seattle gave up 13.25 ppg
    In 2014, last half the season Seattle gave up 10 ppg
    In 2015, last half the season Seattle gave up 17.125 ppg
    And so far from games 9-14 in 2016, Seattle has given up 16.83 ppg
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
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  31. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    ive seen multiple places saying the defense gave up 6.5 ppg the last half the last 3 years...not this year cause the loss of earl Thomas is probably gonna hurt them a little given his range being gone

    I'm not sure what that number entails but I can tell ya that defense those 3 years was as good as any to ever play and in terms of being able to maintain it for 3 years at that level more rare than a top 5 qb falling in your lap

    anyways compare those ppg from the defense #s to miamis the last 3 years ha ha
     
  32. dolfaniss

    dolfaniss Junior Member

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    My question is if this stuff jumps off the screen will Gase see it and can he help Moore correct these issues? Has this always been a problem for Matt Moore? He seemed to have a bigger issue with bad sacks and fumbles than INT's in 2011.
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    If you can give us a link, maybe we can find out precisely what they meant. Until then I'll go with the actual scores (only thing I didn't take into account was pick 6's or scores by the defense, but that's not going to lower the number to 6.5 ppg).

    But yes definitely Seattle's defense is one of the best of the modern era which helps the QB.
     
  34. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    - Who said it's not enough?
    - Did I say anything about Ryan Tannehill? What the hell does he have to do with anything I said?

    We were talking about something completely separate. This is the problem here; You're so quick to jump to Tannehill, and make this about him, and apparently me being in love with him, when I've never brought him up. You went there, not me. I was addressing something else, someone said about Moore's play, and you immediately jump to Tannehill and try and make it out like I'm being slightly critical of Moore because I'm in love with Tannehill. Seriously, some of you guys are just ridiculous. It has ZERO to do with that.

    You want to really point out Matt Moore has the best QBR in the NFL?!??! He's played one freaking game against a team that quit several weeks ago. I can't even take that garbage seriously.

    I praised his(Moore) play post game, during the game. I've criticized Ryan's in the past, and I've praised his when deserved. As always though, someone has to take it to something childish beyond that because it doesn't agree with their stance.

    Who's inventing way's to bash Moore? He threw a INT. That was pointed out. The original point was that he almost threw a couple more, and you know what... That is true. He did almost throw a couple more. How is that inventing anything? It's what actually happened. It's not bashing anyone. It's simply discussing a couple of plays that could have had negative outcomes. It didn't happen, thankfully, and he played more than well enough to get us that W. However,just as easy as it is to say it didn't happen and therefore we shouldn't be concerned, you can also say the opposite. So... why is that so bad? It's what always happened discussing Ryan's play. It's just, natural to discuss. Why is that so offensive? Oh... is it because you're now treating Moore the way you're accusing others of treating Tannehill? Come on guys, get a grip. Be better than that crap.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  35. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yes he's always lacked head and eye discipline and it's a big reason why he's thrown ints at a high clip...that and fumbles have been his major issues

    also why he's always viewed as a back up or if he starts for you you look to replace in the draft etc. kinda like what Miami did with tannehill drafted despite moore finishing the season as a starter...his play wasn't good enough as a starter for the long haul...the league knows this...

    as for can you fix it with a 32 year old pro? I'd say no...I don't know of many guys that learn head and eye discipline 10 years into their pro careers

    the "bad sacks" are situational awareness as in he can take points off the board...that might be something gase can limit by putting him in good passing scenarios...like Saturday was...he couldn't have asked for a better script to break in with in terms of how that game went
     
  36. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Ooooops. LOL
     
  37. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I've put it out there for you...watch sunday to see where his head is in his drops...be it 5 be it 7 step etc

    you'll see it

    the best way to hide that is with heavy play action where he faces away from the defense in the process and has easy pre and post snap reads ...or shot gun pa where he carries out the fake and then fires to his intentions over the drawn up lb level

    if you stare at things vs under zones and don't hold safeties or under corners vs cover 2 those soft boundary holes between the corner and safety level in cover 2 for instance become under corners not worrying about the flats but just continuously dropping where your eyes are

    and picks will follow...in bunches...especially if you chase the scoreboard and sticks

    teams run zones in the red zone and situationally where all they are doing is reading the qbs eyes...and flowing to them
     
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  38. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While Matt is probably one of the best back ups in the league, are you really saying that you think that if Moore plays lights out to finish out the season, someone is going to throw him $20M/yr?
     
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    You happened to jump into the middle of a conversation here, so maybe you didn't notice that the person who you were replying to has said nothing but negative about Moore. I'm all for discussions and debates, but that doesn't work very well when one side is flat out making things up to support their clear agenda.

    A new poster who's essentially here solely to start arguments...with other members talking about how wonderful and knowledgable he is? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it's a troll account.
     
  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that there's been a trend in recent years to vastly overpay backups who finish the season strong. Osweiller and Flynn are perfect examples, but there have been others.
     

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