How do you all see the running back rotation to be to start the season? I see Foster starting, but it depends on the situation for the next man up. Pead is hurt and Williams won't play much. So if it is a passing down, I don't think we can put Ajayi out there, but a down and short yardage, yes. We have to be careful using Ajayi on passing downs, because it seems that not only can't he catch, the ball bounces off of him dangerously. Drake could play the "complete" back role when Foster is out. And when Pead is healthy, maybe we can have a three-headed monster, with Ajayi being the odd man out eventually.
I think if Foster is starting, then Williams will be the 3rd down back, but if Ajayi starts, then Foster might be the 3rd down back, and Drake will be a package player either way, until/if he gets to be a good blocker.
Going by what I have read about Gase, he doesn't want 3rd down back.s If Foster starts, then Williams or Ajayi or Drake will spell him for entire sections of drives.
I haven't read anything to suggest that Gase won't use 3rd down backs, besides the fact that it would be just plain non-sensical. If you are in a passing situation on 3rd down, it would defy logic not to put in a blocking/passcatching RB, unless it's a 5 wide situation, because their will most likely be a blitz, so you need that RB in there, and then as an outlet. I also think this is the primary reason Williams made the team, because only him and Foster can be relied on in that situation, and if Foster is starting, then he won't be playing a lot of 3rd downs.
Yes, but I think that is based on successful drives, on 3rd and 8 you really don't want anyone but Foster or Williams out there, because missed blocks and dropped passes are killers in that scenario.
I think Gase wants complete backs that can play all 3 downs without needing to be taken out. The odd man out would be Jay as he is having issues with catching the ball.
If Foster and Drake and Williams are in, then it's a moot point. If Ajayi is in there, then it will be unfortunate because throwing to him is scary
I was a big Ajayi fan to start the season, but he has really disappointed me. Honestly, I think when he checks into the game, I will have that nervous feeling in my gut.
Just prepre yourselves that unless we pick up a running back through waivers, ajayi will start at some point during the season..
yeah he has me nervous too, and like Vertical Limit said, he may end up starting a game too. His senior year he had 2,300 total yards and 32 TD's. Can you believe that? No matter the competition or the talent around you, that is huge production just from a "reps" stand point. Watching him now, it's almost as if he is thinking way too much. It's like the physical gifts are there, but the NFL offense is too complicated. I have seen this play out many times, he could be mentally done for the season. Catching the ball seems to be an issue, esp. bouncing off his pads or dropping into a defensive player. If I scout him, I want to be around him at all times for a chance for the call. no need to tackle. Of course we say this now, but all it takes is one play, one break, for him to get back on track. I am pulling for the kid, but right now it's about matchups and him on the field doesn't exactly spell third-down back
Drake is not up to snuff on blocking though, he is on the bottom rung as far as picking up blitzes, Ajayi is inconsistent catching and picking up the blitz, so the only guys we have are Foster and Williams, who are both very good at both. With Foster on a play count, it seems to me that it will basically fall to Williams most of the time. Gase is a guy who preaches playing players to their strengths, leaving a suspect RB out there on 3rd and long would be forcing his "system" on players instead of putting players into a position to succeed.
That's a good point. Maybe Ajayi's dug himself into a deeper hole this pre-season due to the best fit/best player approach. I imagine he'll still get his chances to turn this around though.
suspect because of blocking? He must get run-over then? Drake has the type of speed, vision and receiving skills that this offense needs. Blocking at this point would be chipping. a RB taking on a LB or DE or DL one on one has no shot anyway.
but, if Gase wants a 3 down back, he is not going to want someone that cannot protect on 3rd down, now if the RB is going out on the pattern anyway on 3rd down then his blocking is a mute point.
I'm not trying to be a wise a@@ here, but it seems like you don't understand the job of the 3rd RB, whose primary job is picking up the blitz. That will always be a one on one situation, one of the biggest factors is recognizing where you have to get to, this is the bugaboo for most backs that don't do well at it. The biggest factor though, and that is only given that you have got the first part down, is being able to significantly slow down the free blitzer, one on one, so winning the battle here comes down to stopping the forward motion of the blitzer for about a second, and the rest of the RBs that aren't good at this, fail in doing this part. This is one of those "fear factor" moments in the NFL, that no one really talks about, this takes significant bravery for the RB, Williams is 225, when he's doing this job, he will be facing guys anywhere from 240 to 300, possibly coming in at a full run, think about that, if you were there, and Suh busts through the line, and it's YOUR JOB, to stop him for a second, lol, trust me, that is gut check time even for NFL players, because here's the kicker, even if you win your battle, which is just to stop his forward motion for a second, you still get mauled by a bear for your troubles. This is a huge reason why the "Damien Williams'" of the world make teams, because they can do that, being able to pick up the blitz for a RB is a "must have" item on any football team, he's also a good receiver if there is no blitz, which obviously increases his value, he's also very fast, which is another nice bonus. The NFL is not littered with great 3rd down backs, Williams is a very solid 3rd down back, and good STer, which is why he made the team.
no offense taken, but isn't the 3rd down back a receiving back first? or does it depend on the type of 3rd down?
Its been said multiple times actually....they want to go hurry up alot. In order to go hurry up offense, you cant be making substitutions......Gase is on the record as to prefering a 3 down back. “Any time you’re playing that spot in this offense, you have to be able to do it all,” Gase told reporters on Monday, specifically in response to a question about Ajayi’s receiving skills. “It’s not a one-trick pony type of offense. You have to be able to protect. You have to be able to run the ball. You have to be able to catch. So we really don’t believe in, ‘Hey, you’re just a first- and second-down back.’ I don’t know what that means. We look for guys that can stay on the field all three downs because we’re not looking to ‘sub’ personnel. We want guys that can be in great shape, stay out there and then, if we need to switch somebody out because we’re having a long drive, then so be it. But really, whoever the guy is that we’re starting with in the series, that’s the guy I want to finish.” “We really need someone to emerge as the guy,” Christensen said. “I’ve talked about the no-huddle thing. We don’t want to substitute. When you huddle, you substitute those guys and you can keep them fresh. We really need one guy to be a three-down back, stay in there for that drive. “Now, we can sub you out on that next drive, et cetera, but we need some guys to play in big chunks. It’s different from the rest of the league. I don’t see us having a specialist running back, where it’s ‘Hey, this guy’s our third-down guy, this guy’s our first-down guy, this guy’s our blitz guy, this is our empty guy.’ “Our guy has to do all of those things, because one of the things we’re counting on is if we can get you in a personnel group and make you stay in it. That’s got to be one of the advantages.”
It depends on the offense and the playcall. Any offense that depends on a runningback to take on a 240 to 300lb player running at full speed is not going to be successful. Pass blocking is important for a runningback, however, no one is asking Darren Sproles to take on Suh. In fact, I love it when teams expect a runningback to block Wake. It is comical that teams think that will even slow him down.
It does depend on the type of 3rd down, for sure, you might have 5 receiver (any combo of WR's, TE's and RB's) quick hitters, where there is no one staying in, or someone besides Drake, and Drake is a prime candidate for these formations. So while he can play on 3rd downs in some packages, that doesn't make him a quote un-quote "3rd down back", he's still a package player, when a player is tagged with "3rd down RB", then being able to play on any 3rd down is already implied, not just able to play on some 3rd down packages. Most 3rd down passing plays are usually played out with the QB in shotgun, and with the 3rd down RB standing next to him, because of the fact that when you are in 3rd and passing, the other team is almost always blitzing, which is why picking up the blitz is so important for a 3rd down RB, giving your QB that extra second on 3rd down can be the difference.
Say we had Miller & Foster...Foster would be the third down back. Not because Miller needs to be spelled, but because Foster is better at the things you want a 3rd down back to do. If Foster can stay healthy, he's the best starter AND 3rd down guy on the team. Pead is second.
