Can we just try to keep positivity? I get you're not impressed with Tannehill, but there's really nothing wrong with saying that in this preseason, he's looked like a different QB. Not to mention, last year may have been a down year for him, but it wasn't like he had a bad year.
Dollars to donuts, if Thill had sucked all these guys saying pump the brakes its only preseason, would be calling for Thill's head. The hate is so real.
The Gase affect on THill was clear last night. I saw no panic-in-the-pocket from Ryan like previous seasons. He went through his progressions like a quality vet qb, and with that new wall we call an Oline he might have his best season by far.
Their brains cant compute that the oline was the reason we sucked last year. Reminds me of the time when they couldn't decipher that Wallace was the problem in the deep game
He will have his best season statistical and its all because of the oline. If he had this oline two years ago we wouldn't even be discussing tannehill anymore
Actually its not the oline that caused him to suck. Its that the oline sucked and all the tools available to him to counter a sucky oline were taken from him. Gase came here for an interview and never left because he saw how easy it was going to be to "fix" Thill. All he had to do was let him audible and commit to the run. Its simple: If the goal is a successful passing game then you must pick two, at minimum: - Decent oline - Commitment to run game - Incredible scrambling QB - Being able to audible successfully
We still would have had problems because of Lazor's play calling tendencies/refusal to commit to the run and handcuffing the offense by not allowing RT to audible. But they wouldn't have been as severe.
I agree. It's amazing when you think how he survived his first two years. Not only crappy coach and oline but on top of that add no receivers. He should've broken like David Carr but he didn't. He is one tough SOB mentally. And this year that perseverence should finally pay off
I'd still wait to crow about anything until we see what happens in the regular season. Preseason really can be deceptive. Having said that, no question pass protection is vastly improved, many signs we actually have a good HC, and T-Hill has somewhat improved (can't say greatly improved because while he showed better footwork and awareness, I think most of the perceived improvement is on the OL). The one worrisome aspect of even this new offense to me is I am not yet at all confident they can sustain drives. It still seems like if something doesn't go right on 1st and 2nd down they aren't well positioned to keep the drive going. Maybe it's the much worse run offense we're seeing, I don't know.. but whatever it is, if you can't sustain drives, the offense won't put up great numbers. Anyway, season starts soon so we'll find out. But yeah, so far there are clearly encouraging signs.
Yeah, Tannehill may not have improved at all, since it could be, as some have said all along, that the oline was the real issue. Give him a decent oline, and you see him able to set and reset, slide around, and make plays. You know, things we saw him do his rookie year.
I'm a little hesitant to say the pass protection is THAT good. We just played two teams who are going to struggle all year getting to the QB. We may not see DLs that weak the rest of the season.
I'm a realist, not a blind homer. You can continue to cheer and scold those who don't. And those who want to be more realistic can continue to do so, and scold those who disagree. And everyone else on the spectrum from negativity to positivity can do so. That's what makes the forum interesting. I picked up Tannehill for my fantasy teams. Hell, he might even start one (it's a dynasty team and I have 9 non-QBs I love, and dropped Carson Palmer and scooped Tannehill and Carr). My hard earned money is backing up my opinion on Tanny. $900 worth. Also picked up Parker on the very last round (someone snatched Stills first, who was my first target towards the end). But this is how I choose to communicate and view things in my life. Last year he was throwing for 80% and a 120+ rating. People were jerking each other off. I said, hey, let's wait and see how he does in real games first. And they said back, keep the positivity going man, aren't you a fan of the Dolphins? And I turned out to be more correct. adamprez was in here, last year, telling us all how stupid we were since Tanny was guaranteed top 10 in stats ... but that didn't happen. Here he is again. It's deja vu, all over again. And we all survived, nobody died. This is just the internet, and a bunch of people getting really emotional over entertainment (and that's all this is, entertainment).
Yeah, I know jdang, I know. But, I still think Tannehill looks different right now than he did last year.
Ur right, this is just entertainment. In life, some people get their kicks off of acting like they know what they are talking about, and putting people down. That's life, and as my father always told me, u can't change an assshole. Some people in life though enjoy the truth of debunking statements like "tannehill couldn't Cary Russell wilsons jock strap" or that "ndamukong suh is over rated". These people in life who rojoice in truth, are generally the ones with the higher iqs and better jobs.
I haven't been the biggest Thill supporter (still waiting for the "potential" to become reality), but I agree, he looked better last night.
I didn't say top ten in stats last year. I said he was a top ten QB stuck on a 30th ranked offense. This year I am saying stats because he has a oline. As long as he gets protection he is a top ten qb
its almost like, coaching matters in the NFL. Who woulda thunk it, what's next BB is an important member of the Patriots organization and Pete Carroll is vital to Seattle's success? No way! I'm so shocked thill looks better without queasy joe.
I'm just cautiously optimistic. Again, I think he's going to pop into the top of 3rd tier of QBs (my tiers are different than yours before you go quibble with that). I saw some advanced discussion in the Club with things Gase/Christensen are doing (nothing inside or secret just film review of the past couple of games) that showed some good things. I don't ever think Tanny will be elite, but I think in the right system he could post some under-peak Rivers numbers. 2008-2010 Rivers production might be asking for a lot, but slightly under that is good too. So when I say, hey let's wait for the regular season, I mean, hey lets wait for the regular season. I'm rooting for him to excel or else I wouldn't draft him over guys like Flacco, Smith etc.
Last year was the year all of us should have learned to take the pre-season with a grain of salt. The passing game looked good when opponents weren't game planning us, but that all changed when they got into real games and exploited our guards and Lazor's tendencies. The pass rush looked great until nagging injuries slowed it down for the first 4 or 5 games in the regular season and went AWOL after Wake's injury. I've been higher on Tannehill than a lot of other people. I look at his tape from 2014 and 2015 and to my untrained eye I didn't see his individual performance drop. He was throwing the ball just as well, what changed was the circumstances and the consequent playcalling (short version opposing Ds knew lazor would go pass wacky whenever the phins were trailing). IMO a lot of people didn't take into account the type of pressure our OL allowed, with the guards often allowing pass rushers to run free which is different to the pressure allowed by most other OLs who generally kept a body between the pass rush and the QB. The statistical analysis I did showed to me at least that Tannehill is capable of sustained elite type performance. So for me I believe that improved coaching, plus the unexpected benefit of landing Tunsil in the draft, will put Tannehill in the upper echelons of QBs. Having said all that. The pre-season doesn't count. Tannehill has to produce in regular season games, and hopefully in the post season as well.
I may have underestimated Gase. I like his style of offense. It'd be even better if we had more weapons. I like the up-tempo, and our players look comfortable playing in it. Not jumping on the bandwagon just yet, but I can see a glimmer of hope, where I was and have been against this coach hire from the beginning.
Well, he was 9th in passing yards. 8th in completions. 12th in YPG. 8th most TD passes in the league. And if you break it down further and compare him to others that have similar time in the league, he beat most of them nearly every meaningful stat.
Passing yards #6-10: Eli, Bortles, Stafford, Tanny, Cousins. Completions #6-10: Eli, Cousins, Tanny, Bortles, Carr. ^^These stats don't tell you much. This isn't exactly illustrious company...mostly just guys whose offenses threw the ball a lot. And he was actually 15th in passing TDs. Also finished 19th in ypa (a problem).
Extrapolating one half of a preseason game is a pointless endeavor. We'll know where Tanny is at much later in the season when the playbook has sunk in more and other teams have attempted to adjust to whatever it is Gase/Tanny will be doing.
Well I didn't know much about him, but he was the OC of the Bears 18th ranked I believe offense the previous season. I was expecting to shoot a lot higher.
I totally agree with cbrad. Gase and Tannehill will both move the offense forward but negative plays have the potential to kill up-tempo strategies and unfortunately we've seen a lot of negative plays that either move the ball backwards or simply waste a down. You really can't do that inside Gase' offense. The drops need to stop. The run blocking needs to improve. Ajayi needs to improve his vision and stop leaving yards on the field. This offense has potential but it's year-1. We're too often used to watching guys like Brady and Manning who've been doing it for 15+ years. Miami is trying to turn the corner and take the offense to the next level but the execution needs to improve. That's what it looks like this season will be about.
The issue isn't so much pace as it is conservatism. We have a conservative QB who is safe with the ball and tends to throw short a lot - avoiding the risks of attacking deep middle, especially. He has always been this way; his offenses have never been good in terms of yards per pass attempt. When you play like that, your margin for error shrinks.
I can't say you're wrong but I'm cautiously optimistic based on the post-Philbin games from last year that he's capable of more. I think Gase will encourage that as well. Under Philbin, Ryan was a 6.7-6.9 YPA guy where as he was averaging about 7.2-7.3 after Philbin with a few great games up in the 8-10 range. It can also be shown that Gase has a positive affect on YPA as per the Manning and Cutler data. Tannehill just has to keep pushing it downfield to his speedier weapons (i.e. Stills and Parker). He started doing it last season and it's continued this preseason. If the YPA issue doesn't resolve itself, it's cause for concern, but I think it'll be a very obvious part of the offense this year based on what we've seen in the preseason. We just need the receivers to catch the ball. YPA is very much a reflection of chunk yardage. Tannehill needs to make the throws and his guys need to make the catch. You can't have one and not the other. Right now, Tannehill appears to be doing fine pushing the ball.
Any improvement in the pass offense will be moot though if we don't have at least a decent running game. Lots of challenges for coach Gase, but if he can figure this out I will be so happy because we'll know we have the right HC and we won't have to get rid of Tannehill. It makes becoming one of the consistently better teams realistic. This is an important year for sure.
I hear you on the run game for the big-picture, but that doesn't mean you stop evaluating the QB in isolation, especially given his contract. I'll be looking for a few tweaks in Tannehill's game to see if Gase has emphasized them. These are things to help the ypa issue. And at this point, yes, I do think Gase is the dude. - Quicker, active feet to speed up his process and encourage him to extend plays. This is already happening a little, at least from what we can see in preseason. There was just no reason for an athletic kid with his release and mechanics to look as sluggish as he's looked in past years. - Quit the over-reliance on Jarvis Landry, cut down on plays that force-feed him the ball. Best sign of the preseason was RT showing chemistry with Kenny Stills. Stills gets consistent separation and gives you more explosiveness. Again, this should have happened last year. - Attack the middle, particularly deep, with better anticipation. It's the quickest way to get down the field, and Tannehill doesn't test it enough. We get glimpses, but he still has a little of that Kaepernick-like thing where he falls back on one-speed throws where he has to *see it* first. Too much slinging into small windows on the sidelines, imo. He's got to be just a bit more consistent throwing guys into space in rhythm with some touch (we saw this a bit in preseason too). He's good hitting quicker slants and posts off play-action (spread type stuff), but I want more of this: [video]https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*5SG0-4bHFabr3ZKPpubngA.gif[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCACbYtaTM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwE5AQYIWwo Well, that's the offense when it works. That's what the smartest and most productive QB ever can do with it anyway. While I agree with your first two points, I don't see a lot of deep middle passing in this offense and so I don't think we're going to see Tannehill attack the deep middle very much. There's not all that much precedent for that. Acknowledging this, I don't know how much a fan can grade Tannehill on it. You'll see a couple things to the TE up the seam in certain areas on the field but the vast majority of deep throws are outside the hash marks and many are outside the numbers. So far this preseason what we've gotten a taste of looks like Denver with a few of the short-passing concepts spilling over from Lazor.
Gase has already said the modern game is about short controlled passing. If you think we're going to be a deep passing team forget it. This is ball control passing with the occasional home run shot
Ok thanks. I was curious because I hadn't heard anyone against his hiring. I heard some people cautious, but not straight up against.
I like how you can't even say Thill looked good last game without the haters coming on telling you to chill.
i like how we have a russel wilson thread in the miami dolphins forum. week 1 is going to be strange. people praising wilson every snap and denigrating tannehill every incomplete. we should rename this site thetwilightzonephins.com
I think we have to look at whether the offense is running plays designed to attack down the field, whether those plays are producing open receivers and whether the OL is holding up well enough for the QB to make the throws. Not saying your observation is off, only that there are factors outside of the QB involved.
Well you have a long history of putting the cart before the horse, so nothing new here. But he did look good.
