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Hartline still looking for work

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I will always love Brown for running over that Raiders defender.

    I think Brown was very good, just to many injuries.
     
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  2. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Agreed. When Brown was healthy, and our coaches gave him the mother ****ing ball, he put up some phenomenal performances.

    I remember screaming at the TV for coaches to give him the rock more than 10-12 times per game. He needed touches to get in a groove, then he was off to the races.

    Paralleled Ricky like that, where first half you didn't get get a whole lot, but if you kept feeding him, he would break out.

    Damn shame he couldn't stay healthy.


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  3. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Brown and Miller are easily the two best RBs the team has drafted in my 30 or so years as a fan, and each was criminally underused by the coaches. Ironic that the one who used Brown properly was the biggest dolt of the bunch and only lasted one year.

    Hopefully Gase will be smarter (I'm confidant that he is), and if Ajayi isn't the guy, whoever they draft next April will see the ball like a real RB.
     
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  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    :jt0323:


    Not even the team with the NFL's worst WR corps wanted to keep him. How many receivers did Cleveland draft? 4 in the first 5 rounds?
     
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  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Cleveland didn't just stop after drafting 3. They said, "Meh, we have Hartline as a starter; let's make it 4 for good measure".
     
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  6. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Also Cleveland

    [​IMG]

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  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Hartline was merely a victim of circumstance. ****ty coaches, OL, and no commitment to the running game.

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  8. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    And sub-par genes...poor breeding stock probably held him back more than anything :P


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  9. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nothing the Browns do, should reflect on the player they are doing it too. His last 4 games, 77, 74, 83, 107 yards receiving. Letting Hartline go is exactly the reason they are the Browns.
     
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  10. normaldude

    normaldude Active Member

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    In the last 5 games of 2002, Redskins WR Derrius Thompson had..

    - 6 catches for 94 yds.

    - 6 catches for 122 yds.

    - 7 catches for 70 yds.

    - 5 catches for 73 yds.

    - 4 catches for 78 yds.

    The next year, the Miami Dolphins signed him.

    Sometimes a crappy WR will have a few games with decent numbers.

    Post-knee injury, Hartline is a completely different player than before the knee injury. He no longer makes explosive cuts on his sideline comeback routes. At this point in his fading career, he's just a warm body on the field.
     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, its why him and Thill are out of jobs.......
     
  12. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Does Brady make Belichick, does Belichick make Brady, is Manning better than Brady, Brady better than Manning, etc. Doesn't Hartline fall into this same sort of category?

    You can make an argument either way with there being enough evidence on either side to support each viewpoint. The truth is likely somewhere in between. To Hartline's credit, he has enough of an established NFL track record to be considered for this argument (how many people in the world can say the same) but he is not a transcendent talent who can be successful despite the situation he is placed in. Based on the evidence he has given us, he seems capable of being an NFL receiver when fit into the right situation (how he's used within a scheme/surrounding talent) but he's not good enough for a scheme to be built around him (where his talent is so great the scheme revolves around his skill set). Of course none of this factors in age, injury, etc. which may throw all of what he has done in the past out the window.

    If you are an NFL team which values proven experience over youthful unproven potential. It would seem if you place him on a team which needs depth possession receiver help who use a scheme that fits what he does best, he has a worth of about what you are seeing right now, being brought in for a tryout. With the abundance of receivers in the NFL free agent market, if you are a team that looks at his age and already limited abilities you may feel someone else (like a young unproven receiver who flashes ever now and then) are more worthy of a contract. It's really all based off mindset, need, scheme, so on and so forth. It's an endless argument, which I am not sure there is a true universal answer for based off my knowledge of Hartline's current health situation and my lack of NFL talent evaluation skills.

    For me, I'll credit Hartline for having enough talent to even be considered for this argument and for his time and contributions given to this team. Beyond that, I will wish him the best and thank him for at least being message board debate fodder during a slow time in the NFL calendar (which I am sure he will appreciate).
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You can say the same for any player in the NFL. However, with Hartline, the only skill he brings is sideline catches and even that was a bit overrated. He's easily one of the worst WRs in the NFL. Not to mention he is a **** teammate, on top of it all.
     
  14. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Kind of my point. It's all situational.

    However, I'd say given the current NFL landscape, his time as an NFL receiver is likely over. I am not, however, going so far as to say he's always been a talent-less hack. It takes a certain level of talent to make it as far as he did. Could luck and unwise moves by NFL coaches/front office members helped him out? Sure, but he had enough talent to place himself in such a situation to begin with.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not saying he should have never made it to the NFL, I'm saying OF the people good enough to make to the NFL as a receiver he's one of the worst. I also think he was helped out immensely. I think what he did accomplish here was the result of him being in the perfect situation and he achieved his absolute apex. I think he'd have been worse in most other situations.

    And again, he's still a horrible back stabbing teammate on top of it.
     
  16. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    I'd agree with that for the most part. Although I wouldn't rate him among the worst due to the sheer quantity of receivers which have passed through the NFL over its history but that's just me being a stickler.

    I'm unfamiliar with any of his actions regarding teammates, so I can't comment there.
     
  17. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Lol. I saw a non-Tannehill thread that was a few pages long, so I opened it. Should have known better.
     
  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Teammate. And you can guess which one.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And now there's been the same amount of posts *****ing about it.
     
  20. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I'm hiring. I'd give him a job just for the TD vs Baltimore. Don't think he wants to work for Goodwill but if you're ever in a spot brah, I got you.
     
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  21. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    That was actually Greg Camarillo.


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  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    He was targeted 52 times over 5 games [by default I might add]. WADR, an NFL nobody could catch 373 yards on 52 targets, especially when afforded garbage time production (30-9 loss vs Pitt; 37-3 loss vs Cincy) and when facing markedly inferior starting corners- San Fran's Kenneth Acker and Pitt's Antwon Blake.

    For perspective, in the 50-59 target range, Seth Roberts [Oak] caught 480 yards, Jerricho Cotchery [Car]- 485, Albert Wilson [KC] 451, Corey Brown [Car] 447, Marquess Wilson [Chi] 464, Brandon Coleman [N.O] 454, Chris Hogan [Buf] 450, Jairus Wright [Minn] 442, Dwayne Harris [NYG] 396, Quinton Patton [SF] 394. Jacksonville's Bryan Walters [who?] caught 368 yards on 46 targets. Baltimore's Jeremy Butler [who?] caught 363 yards on 43 targets...... and then below them is Hartline's 373 yards on 52 targets. By comparison, Rishard Matthews caught 662 on 61 targets.

    It's not like the Browns were just gonna quit airing it out b/c they owned a terrible receiving corps. Those targets had to go somewhere, and when you have guys like Marlon Moore starting alongside Hartline in 3 WR formations and with Travis Benjamin not exactly being a "possession receiver", the passing options aren't exactly plentiful.
     
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  23. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hmm interesting.

    Landry's first 5 games. 51 targets. 31 receptions (60% catch rate, Hartline/Browns qb was more efficient those last 5 games at 65%).

    312 yards.

    if an NFL nobody can catch 373 yards on 52 targets, what is a WR who catches 312 yards on 51 targets? NFL Excrement?
     
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  24. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I'll also add, 10 targets a game is an AWFUL lot for an NFL nobody.
     
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  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For the entire season so we don't seem like we're cherry picking:

    Brian Hartline, with excrement throwing him passes, averaged 7.06 ypt.

    Landry, with Tannehill throwing him passes, averaged ... 7.01 ypt.

    So ... is our #1 targeted WR an NFL nobody?
     
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  26. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    An NFL nobody is lucky to get 10 targets in a season, Hartline is a capable WR, if unspectacular.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Lol, yeah let's pretend for a second that Landry wasn't a slot receiver on extremely short routes because of our horrible oline.....I mean anything you can do to be contrarian, right?
     
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  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes because Todd included those as reasons Hartline is a NFL nobody right?

    Nobody is arguing Hartline is a great WR. But to argue he's not even rosterable is ridiculous.
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Sure, ok. You can find loopholes to prove your point but no one arguing against you can. Got it.

    He's not rosterable. He's terrible. He brings nothing to the table that you can't many other places.
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I bet if you had Landry running the same routes in Cleveland last season that Hartline was running, Landry would have a better ypc than Hartline had.

    You can't really compare them like that statistically.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You can prove it by looking a YAC per catch on their careers too.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    a rookie?.... one who lines up in the slot where the YPC is inherently lower?
     
  33. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yeah, and Hartline was in an ideal situation, with no drawbacks.

    You're so inconsistent in your arguments.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Exactly. That's why YAC per catch tells the story.

    Landry over his career, averages a ludicrous 5.61 YAC per catch. That his yards are almost all him. While Fallin Fartline averages a paltry 3.77 YAC per catch.

    Proving he sucks.
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Like what? Being a number one or being a number two with Wallace drawing all the attention? What exactly was Hartline's horrible situation?
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I took it to mean his situation in Cleveland was horrible.
     
  37. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    That is correct.
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's what happens when Marlon Moore & Travis Benjamin are your de facto #3 & #1 WRs and when you're playing serious catch up in 3 of those 5 games.... and playing against the NFL's 3rd worst "completion percentage defense" [San Fran] and the 6th worst "passer rating D" [Baltimore, 99.6] in the other 2 games.

    Again, an NFL team isn't gonna cease passing the ball just b/c it's got garbage at WR, and especially not when it's trailing on the scoreboard. In those 5 games, Cleveland QBs dropped back a whopping 216 times.

    41 drop backs vs Zona. Starting WR trio of Travis Benjamin, Hartline, Taylor Gabriel.

    51 drop back vs Pitt . Starting WR trio of Benjamin, Hartline, Andrew Hawkins.

    41 drop backs vs Cincy. Starting WR trio of Hartline, Marlon Moore, Darius Jennings.

    50 drop backs vs Balt. Starting WR trio of Benjamin, Hartline, Moore.

    33 drop backs vs SF. Starting WR trio of Benjamin, Hartline, Moore.

    Where else is the ball gonna go? If Hartline went down [I mean from injury, not just immediately after the catch] and Marlon Moore were thrust into the #2 WR spot with nothing behind him, he would've received upward of 10 targets a game as well with that many drop backs at QB. If those 10 targets/game were actually a result of something good on Hartline's part, the Browns wouldn't have cut him.

    There's a reason why Gary Barnidge received more targets than Rob Gronkowski, why Travis Benjamin received as many as Randall Cobb & Jeremy Maclin, and why Cleveland drafted 4 receivers through the first 5 rounds. It's because there was inferior talent and competition at WR, and this massive deficiency forced a veteran bum like Hartline [amidst a group of less experienced receivers] into being targeted heavily by default in a starting role that he otherwise wouldn't have been given.
     
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  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's true, he was in an ideal situation. He was fortunately a member of the NFL's worst receiving corps which allowed him to be a goddam de facto starter with absolutely no one behind him to challenge for targets and playing time.
     
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  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Hartline is neither good enough or bad enough for this thread to go as far as it has.
     
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