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So you don't need great QB play...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Shane Falco, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  2. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    Wow. Did you really post this??? Who cares? Doesn't mean you know a single thing. Just a kid lmao.

    Bet you rock at Madden too lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    So the answer is no, and I'm not saying he can't become one, but as of right now the answer is no.

    My point with this is simply, don't hate on people because they are calling it like they see it, I do understand the problems with the team, and he would perform better with a better team, but at the same time I haven't seen the leadership or clutch play I need to see from a 20 mil per QB, even with the problems.

    Maybe with a better team he does rise, but then again maybe he doesn't, his contract is the way it is for a reason, he has next year to prove he's worth 20 mil per, he got 5 years to show what he's got, and next year is THE year, if he doesn't show that he's a leader the team is going to cut bait, and that is just how his contract is structured.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Define, please. LOL

    That being said, yes, I think Tannehill is someone you can build a consistent, winning team around.

    Frankly, I don't even mind if someone didn't think that. What gets me arguing is when people say stuff like, "Tannehill doesn't win," or stuff like that. People who want to act like Tannehill should have thrown for 5k yards, 45 tds, and just willed the team to 12-4 records (yes, I know no one has actually made these claims, but it's the impression I get) just seem to not understand things. So I try to discuss with them. Probably my bad, because they probably do understand it, but are just being purposefully obtuse.
     
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  5. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Thanks for your reply. I see alot of teams with no 'franchise' QB whatever that is for sure. If your team sucks ALL around you tho... you are a franchise QB of a crappy franchise so what difference would that make anyway? Your stats are worse than they should be, you get sacked more than you should, you throw more bad passes due to it, you are often playing from behind because the D is in the toilet, the earlier noted problems are even magnified at that point. The MVP of the league (himself a franchise QB... right?) had these same glaring problems when all of these things except the toilet D were happening to him. Half of 16 games like that... and he wouldn't look like a real 'franchise' QB either. Everyone looked at the Panthers and said before the game- their OL is weak, their WRs are average. Then turn that over and all Peyton has to do is 'manage' the SB to lead them to victory. How would Manning (Mr Franchise himself) do behind our OL for a season??? Would RT have been able to lead that team to a SB win in that game. You bet! With a SB victory under his belt... would he be a 'franchise' QB even tho my grandmother (when living) could have thrown most of those balls in the backyard with even a better spiral? We saw how Brady (another one of those) did both against our well below average D and against the Broncos overwhelming D... would he be a franchise guy if he saw that kind of pressure all year. He would be the franchise QB of a 6-10 team at best IMO.
    Maybe even worse.

    Really I should have answered yes, I guess.
     
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Is there a limit on characters in a signature? I might have to make this post my signature.

    FinD, should we extend an honored invitation to dgfred to join the Fraternal Derp Sherpa Brotherhood?
     
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  7. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Whats up Speed? I bet my dad can beat up your dad
     
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  8. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    We look at other teams and see these glaring problems... then look at ours and say the QB is the problem, or at least not the answer.

    How one doesn't look at our team and see a horrible OL with no backup either, a very weak/non-threatening D that requires about 1 double team to totally slice to pieces I have no idea. The hardest decision the D has against our team is whether to hit the QB high or low. The hardest decision the O has against our team is to run or pass. We had (I fear) a top-notch RB that we didn't give the ball to enough whether he was having an excellent game or not. What the heck? All of us saw these things. How is RT the problem or not the answer. How would we know if he is not the answer. I can guarantee you that other teams forums are not looking at the 'phins and seeing RT as a problem in any way. I have mentioned before about following the Cowboys and Chargers (and Panthers of course) and believe me they are not so happy at all about their QB situations at the moment. I think they would be fine if they had RT at his age at the moment. That is why all this RT stuff is so astonishing to me... I wonder about whether this is a devil's advocate kind of thing or just being argumentative. It can not be from watching the same things I have been watching.
     
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  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If you think they're playing devil's advocate, then you have much yet to learn, Grasshopper.

    Its the age old problem. They blame the QB. Doesn't matter what the reason is, the QBs the most important player on the field therefore he sucks if the team loses. This year of all years, its extremely silly as one the worst season long QB performances won a Super Bowl, and one of the better season long performances (Rivers) had a 4 win record.

    These people could pull up to a restaurant that is visibly on fire with people fleeing and screaming and they'd think to themselves "look at those people running out of there......the food must be terrible".
     
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  10. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    No Derpage tho... please. Haha.
     
  11. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There are 21 QBs that had better passer ratings last year. With better protection does his rating and performance go higher? Absolutely. We don't know how much better.

    We can project which means guess. Is he top 10? Probably not.

    Rodgers.
    Brady.
    Newton.
    Wilson.
    Ben.
    Romo.
    Smith.
    Palmer.
    Brees.
    Rivers.

    Which of those guys would you rank less than Tanny? Smith, Maybeeee??? Then you have Dalton, Cousins, Tyrod Taylor, Stafford who quietly had an excellent year. Cutler had a better year. Mariotta and Car. Hell Brian Hoyer had a statistically decent year.

    So I never said you dump Tanny, but he still has a jump to make to start knocking on the top 10. If Luck and Flacco bounce back that's two more QBs in the mix.
     
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  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Like it or not, I think you've established yourself as an honorary member. HAHA

    You are a Sherpa, a guide, helping people through the wasteland of irrational hate and misguided animosity thrown the way of Tannehill...that is, The Derp.

    Resist the title, but your true self shines through in each and every post.
     
  13. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    I don't know what this Speed thing is you keep saying.

    What I do know is I am twice your age and was playing football long before you were born.

    You talk too much, and say nothing.
     
  14. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    There isn't a QB in the league that faced the degree of defensive perfection Denver displayed in the postseason on ANY type of consistent basis. Quite an extreme example, but so goes the masses.
     
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  15. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Interesting article on Matt Ryan...

    http://www.thesportsfanjournal.com/sports/football/matt-ryan-atlanta-falcons-franchise-quarterback/

    Projections based on averages for a 10 year career:
    Tannehill @10 years: 61.9 comp % / 40,553 passing yards / 250 TDs / 131 INTs

    MRyan @ 10 years: 64.3 comp % / 40,946 passing yards / 253 TDs / 134 TDS

    ALuck @ 10 years: 58.1 comp % / 40, 752 passing yards / 273 TDs / 141 INTs

    And since he gets compared to Smith...
    ASmith @11 years: 61.0 comp % / 24,344 passing yards / 142 TDs / 83 INTs
     
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  16. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Matt Ryan has about as much variance in his performance as anyone I've ever seen. He always puts up good numbers (for whatever thats worth) but never have I seen a QB who can look like a top 5 QB for long stretches, then go through long stretches of looking like just another guy out there. He is the ultimate enigma, you can't really pinpoint any glaring issues in his skill set...yet he certainly can leave you unimpressed.

    Odd player.
     
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  17. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    and me??
     
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  18. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Agree... Matt Ryan has had everything a QB could want in a surrounding cast over his 8 years and never done a damned thing with it. And if you want to talk about putting up numbers in garbage time, he's among leaders for collecting garbage stats. If Winston develops, Matt Ryan will be the worst QB in that division unless Brees play reaches current Payton Manning levels... That said, Tannehill would kill to have the talent around him that Matt Ryan has had. I found it amusing that Matt Ryan largely get's a pass on the team's performance, while many Fin fans (and media wh0res like Omar and Miko) blame Tannehill primarily for our issues.
     
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  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ryan OL has been pretty bad his whole career, i will give him that. But he rivals Tannehill in terms of lacking consistency. Matt's consistency is just on a larger scale, he will give you half a season of very good QB play then the other half something will be missing.

    As it stands today they are seemingly similar in that regard, although pound for pound I think Matt Ryan is a better QB by a decent margin....ofcourse there is always 2016.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Matt Ryan hasn't, imo, had the same level of dysfunction surrounding him that Tannehill has had.
     
  21. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    As a whole, absolutely not. But he is also a much better QB at this point. His decision making is solid, he hs every throw in his arsenal the guy seemingly just can't maintain that low 1/high 2 teir level we see him play at quite often. I don't blame his surroundings or his OL for that inconsistency either....it falls on his shoulders.
     
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  22. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    This I agree with. Really hoping Gase, Clyde, and Hardegree can help Tannehill take that next step to being more consistent and elevating his play. Of course the FO has to do it's part this off-season with shoring up the OL and defense...
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I would hope that with twice the NFL experience of Tannehill, and not having developed amidst abject incompetence, that Matt Ryan would be a better QB at this point.
     
  24. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    If we're all being honest, the jury is still out, I think the jury will come back with a guilty verdict, you think the jury will come back with an innocent verdict, but the truth is that the jury is still out.

    What I'm hungry for, the entire reason I do this, is for some good solid discussion, I wish we could have some more civilized discussion on Tanne, I have civilized discussions on almost every other player here, but there is this viscous undercurrent in these Tanne debates that gets all of us nowhere.

    Can we just reboot this Tanne topic for the upcoming year?

    I wonder if that's possible, because this is the year we find out, it's like overtime, sure we've played 4 quarters, but we're tied, so it's like starting over in a way.

    Discuss without disgust?

    Both sides backs are up, it's like the Mongols and Chinese circa 8th century and Tanne is the wall, lol, both sides hurling things over the wall, when we should try to discuss the issue with at least modicum of civility, and agree to disagree if that is all we can do, without hurling something over that wall before we go back to our hut for some boiled goat, lol.

    How freakin great would this place be if it was like that, it'd be better than Netflix for crying out loud, here's to hoping anyway.

    Peace.
     
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  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    No need to be passive aggressive, nobody is insulting Tanny here. Relax.
     
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  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Never done a damned thing? They made it to the NFCG and playoffs all those years. People want to talk about Gonz and Roddy white yeah 2-3 years ago, hence the NFCCG and pretty close to the Super Bowl that year. They made that NFCCG with a terrible Michael Turner by the way and we all know Atlanta's defense and their oline has never been good. They made it off of the passing offense really.
     
  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol. I don't think it's conscious anymore. It's just instinctual at this point. Automatic.
     
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  28. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Hate to break it to you bro but Matt Ryan's been superior from day 1.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You guys are cray cray.
     
  30. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    Yes & No...

    1) you have to fix the offensive line before you will challenge anywhere else. everything begins in the trenches.
    2) we need to invest in a L/B & a corner at least.
    3) the most important thing is to sign & stick with our younger players & proven veterans, not replace them with draft choices, at the end of every season
    4) what Miami has not had in a long time is competent coaching. in my book, that is the greatest issue at hand & hopefully resolved ;)
     
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  31. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Matt played quite well in that game, 24 points against that SF defense should have been enough.
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes they jumped out to a 17-0 lead but the defense allowed Gore to run it all in their face. Yeah MR could have done more and came pretty close. But to say he's never done a damned thing but came very close to playing in a SB.

    Shoot Dan only played in one super bowl, know what I'm sayin?
     
  33. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Probably not the best choice of words I could have used, but the goal isn't just to make it to the playoffs or the CG... The jets did that repeatedly with Mark Sanchez at the helm. And as Fin-O pointed out, Matt Ryan has always been inconsistent. Makes no sense that he get's a pass on his performance where other QBs do not...
     
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  34. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    "Superior" is questionable, though he should have been... 4 year college starter who was drafted by a team with a 1700 yard pro-bowl back in 08 who accounted for 17 TDs and a 1400 yard pro-bowl WR... He's had a lot of "superior" surrounding talent throughout his career.

    And again he's a guy who averages 25 TDs a season... one of the things Tannehill gets criticized for is not throwing 30+...

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead...&playerTwo=Matt+Ryan&playerThree=&playerFour=
     
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  35. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    I guess "get a pass" is such a blanket statement its hard for me to agree or disagree.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  36. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

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    Matt Ryan and Ryan Tannehill are both average QBs.
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Fair enough.
     
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  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Is it fair to say Thill's production as been average but considering the circumstances he's had to produce in, that average production is actually above average?

    From a logical standpoint, if Thill was actually average, then his production should be below average with the handcuffs he's had.
     
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  39. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Average compared to what? We have been down this dead-end road for a few days now.

    Do we need to list the teams (again) that surely wouldn't think RT was average if they had him?
     
  40. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    So was Manning's play well below average... still toting around another SB ring.
     

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