1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Greg Jennings: No one knows if Tanny can be great: treated like a child

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Agua, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

    3,451
    903
    113
    Dec 15, 2014
    The excuses for this guy is unbelievable, for however long he plays like an average QB, there will always be excuses for him... how come the OL dont have the excuse that they give up sacks because their QB that they protect cant read a pass rush and has horrible pocket presence? Or the 2 HC's that were fired maybe have the excuse that their overhyped/overpaid mediocre QB cost them their job and the 3 OC's that were also fired... Philbin, as much as I didnt like him, could of made it to the playoffs at least once if Tannehill was able to lead his offense to more then 7 points in 2 crucial games against two bad teams and Tannehill crumbled and put up 7 and 0 in those crucial games... excuses are like ***holes, everyone has em, only the weak use em.
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    If they are excuses, provide a list of QBs that have had to deal with ALL the things I listed and thrive.
     
    resnor and dgfred like this.
  3. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

    642
    259
    0
    Dec 17, 2015
    N.C., USA
    Let us see:
    Packers OL was hurt and subs played poorly = A.Rodgers struggling compared to most seasons.
    Patriots OL was hurt and subs/position switched players played poorly at the end of the season = T.Brady struggling greatly.
    Cardinals QB harrassed and blitzed = out of the playoffs.
    Panthers OL under fire in the SB = the MVP of the entire league struggles.
    Broncos OL protects feeble old QB that can't throw it 35 yds = SB Champions.

    OL seems important.

    Maybe y'alls imaginary 'better' QB could have pulled them thru. Haha... this RT stuff is really amazing. Is it an age difference thing or what?
     
    resnor and Fin D like this.
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Didn't you hear....Thill is making the oline look bad.
     
    resnor and dgfred like this.
  5. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

    642
    259
    0
    Dec 17, 2015
    N.C., USA
    Well, he did suck on 3rd and 8-12 late in the 4th down by 16. Haha.
     
    resnor, Shane Falco and Fin D like this.
  6. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

    916
    468
    0
    Nov 22, 2015
    This is really interesting. I mean it is very clear there are many worse QBs in the NFL than Tannehill. So why do these guys hate him so much?? Just doesn't make sense to me. I mean he rarely loses a game with stupid passes, like Carson Palmer did. He has shown flashes of brilliance, see the Houston and Tennessee games. I just don't understand what these guys want?? It's fascinating to me. Maybe they would be happier with a turnover machine?? 12 INT is damn good. I just don't get it.

    Now if you want to hate on the defense, who was the REAL problem this year, I'm right there with you.

    I think the hate is personal. Has no merit.
     
    dgfred likes this.
  7. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

    916
    468
    0
    Nov 22, 2015
    Such clueless posting.

    Time for the perm block. I mean this is drivel, and that's being kind.
     
  8. shamegame13

    shamegame13 Madison & Surtain

    3,451
    903
    113
    Dec 15, 2014
    Hi Speed
     
  9. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Why would I need to provide anything?

    You are in the minority with the line of thinking that because Ryan is/was in circumstances that are not ideal this means he is off the hook for his performance.

    Most people do not feel that way.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    This argument is poor.

    What you or I or anyone thinks isn't relevant. This is a simple fact based question.....list the qbs who have had ALL these handcuffs and done better.

    You cannot comment on how good or bad Thill is unless you have a comparison. The only accurate comparisons would be against QBs in the same type of situations.

    Since you and all these other people who make up this majority are so sure of your analysis, that would have to mean you have made these comparisons already else you're making unrealistic expectations.

    There's three options here:

    1. You've made the comparisons.
    2. You've made no comparisons and therefore can't make an accurate assessment.
    3. You've made no comparisons and made an assessment that is inaccurate.

    There's no other actual option that carries weight.

    Considering the gusto with which you guys make your claim and the ferocity with which you argue for it, I assume its #1, so please provide the list.
     
    Shane Falco and resnor like this.
  11. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Stopped reading when you claimed your questions that included questions was a fact.

    You or me or anyone has ANY IDEA who is a good OC, and what responsibility each Qb in NFL history has had in their career.

    You really cant keep beating that drum and calling it a fact, because it is not a fact.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    If you stopped reading, how do you know what the rest of the post said? Also, there was nothing wrong or off about what I said.

    This argument is also poor. We know Sherman sucked. We know Lazor sucked. We also know Thill wasn't allowed to audible.

    - Are you saying its not a fact that our oline is bad?
    - Are you saying its not a fact that we had the fewest rushing attempts in the league?
    - Are you saying its not a fact that Thill couldn't audible?
    - Are you saying its not a fact that Lazor didn't keep Thill from audibling, didn't call the fewest rushing plays in the league and didn't utilize Thill properly? (Are these the mark of a good OC?)

    For you to make the claims you make about Thill you'd have to logically compare him to similar situations otherwise you're just making stuff up...so again....the list please.
     
    dgfred and resnor like this.
  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    The answer to the bold is obvious isn't it? this is a dolphins forum, is it not? Do we care who the QB of the Browns or Texans are? No. We want Tannehill to be great. We want at least Big Ben greatness. Romo level of play for a decade. Because he's better than Manziel is not a ringing endorsement. We don't want to get stuck with a Jay Cutler situation.

    Derek Carr has now outplayed him, in year 2. Kirk Cousins has vastly outplayed him, in much less starts.
     
  14. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Here's a question. What if our oline NEVER gets good in the next 5-6 years. It could happen. Tanny be getting his AARP card by then and still wouldn't have the benefit of a good oline.
     
  15. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

    916
    468
    0
    Nov 22, 2015
    He won't live long enough to qualify for AARP if this line stays this bad.

    Did you see Concussion??
     
  16. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

    916
    468
    0
    Nov 22, 2015
    Those pesky facts really hurt his argument lol.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    2 things:
    - His line doesn't need to get good, its needs to get average.
    - If his line stays horrible, then at least give him the ability to audible, call more running plays and allow him to roll out.

    Again, yes other QBs deal with bad olines, but they have tools to do it like audibling out of a play/formation, or having a running game to keep the defense guessing, or simply moving the pocket around.
     
    resnor likes this.
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,327
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Did those QBs have a run game that was actually used effectively? Did they have competent coaches? Were they allowed to audible? I mean, you guys get all in depth into stuff, but when it comes to the QB, you seen unwiing to go further than surface level stuff. You can't simply look at win/loss, or stuff like that. It may be a place to start, but it doesn't tell the whole story.
     
    dgfred and Fin D like this.
  19. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    The lack of available facts lies in the comparison with others. You are asking to compare with situations others have been in that is opinion. What you are claiming is "NO OTHER QB HAS EVER SUCCEEDED WITH THESE ISSUES" and that is something we can never prove or disprove, because??????

    We have no idea what other qbs have been through!!

    How is this not sinking in? Just because the same two guys (football genuis's by the way) keep liking every post you trot out doesnt mean it makes any sense whatsoever.

    We really need to work on the defenition of the word FACT then apply them to what your asking and see if you can figure it out


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Steve-Mo, Finster and dgfred like this.
  20. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Aaaand you are such a follower you are falling deeper into the hole aswell.

    Asking if someone has competent coaches? Let me guess, the answer is a fact and not an opinion.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Its interesting to me how we can know those things about our team, but somehow, its impossible to know those things about another team.
     
  22. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Again you're asking something that is an opinion and pawning it off as a fact.

    And how are we to know the amount of freedom each quarterback has in the league this year or any of the years you claim it is never been done?

    Do you know exactly the date but Tom Brady was allowed to audible? Do you have these Cordinator's phone numbers and know them on a personal level?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  23. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

    642
    259
    0
    Dec 17, 2015
    N.C., USA
    Well, that is a weak argument. I see Brady doing it at the line. I see Rodgers doing it at the line. I see Big Ben doing it at the line.
    ETC

    Our OL is baaaad.
    Our D is horrible.

    Our QB is OK.

    Can we fix the first two then debate the last one?
     
    resnor likes this.
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Again, we know these things about our team, but its impossible to find them out about any other?

    So fine, then I was wrong, you didn't make the comparison. I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

    That means you're basing your opinion of Thill's play on nothing valid. For all you or any of us know, based on his circumstances he's doing better than 99% in the league would if they were put in the same situation. You don't know. I don't know. Yet you claim it. Interesting, no?
     
    resnor likes this.
  25. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

    642
    259
    0
    Dec 17, 2015
    N.C., USA
    Haha... just like on RT you have to throw a 'supposed' insult to others. Why?

    Who is liking your post? Do likes make one make more sense than the other? Why?

    I am posting on a fan forum... not trying to show you or anyone else about football genius.

    What is 'football genius' anyway? Who do you consider one? Are you one? Are you making 'sense' about RT? Not IMO.

    What are your suggestions for fixing the Dolphins to get where the Broncos, Panthers, Patriots, Packers, etc are at NOW?
    Is bash RT and pray to get rid of him your best answers? It seems that way sometimes.
     
    resnor and Fin D like this.
  26. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    You are missing the point.

    Me and you are in strong agreement in regards to his disadvantages. I fully acknowledge Ryan has had to deal with a bad OL, bad playcalling infact I'll go a step further and say he was developed by a staff of incompetent boobs.

    Where we drift apart is when you take a valid argument (his disadvantages) then ask what QB in history has played well despite X. How can I get on board with that? It's something that is unprovable and opinion based.

    Pointing out those things is valid enough to atleast want to see how he plays when he is under the reign of a staff who is competent. And hopefully that is this year....

    Point is it is unecessary to take a good point to all these different levels. It is ehat it is, he is still a Dolphin and we all hope he gets the chance to play under ideal conditions.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Steve-Mo and dgfred like this.
  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    I dont want to get rid of Tannehill....it is insane that I somehow get lumped in to that group.

    Yes. I'm a football genuis, me and Speed are the two smartest football guys to ever grace these forums.

    How do you make the Dolphins into a perennial contender?? Thats a tough task (even for a genuis) my OPINION is that we need to draft a good young back seven and start focusing on developing the players we draft and that takes some continuity with your staff.

    Draft well, develop, start focusing on depth instead if making a big splash in FA.

    All easier said than done but its the path im rooting for.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    dgfred likes this.
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    That's not what's happening.

    What's happening is we're being told Thill is not very good or at best barely average. We're being told our biggest problem is Thill.

    No quarter is being given for those circumstances.

    The comparison is being made and its being made by the other side of the argument, They are the ones saying all of those the obstacles placed at Thill's feet are irrelevant because the great ones find a way. They have "it".

    So, for the people telling us other QBs overcome, then they need to be able to tell us they've overcome the things Thill has, else their entire argument falls apart. That's why I started asking that question and until things change I will keep asking it. If we can't know what other QBs went through so we can pass positive judgement, then we can't know what other QBs went through so we can pass negative judgement.

    As a side note, how can you know our coaches were incompetent boobs but we can't know that about other staffs?
     
    resnor and dgfred like this.
  29. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

    642
    259
    0
    Dec 17, 2015
    N.C., USA
    You and speed need to post more then... and right letters/emails to the FO ;)
     
  30. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    I dont pay that much attention to the staff of 31 other teams, also although I feel Lazor sucked...that doesnt make it a fact...he has had one productive season as an OC and one unproductive season as an OC. He may be better with a better set of players for all we know. But im not going to sit around and make excuses for him or anyone.

    Ryan has had some encouraging moments and some discouraging ones aswell. I dont think anyone believes we are a SB team and Ryan is bringing us down. We are a mess and we truly have no idea what we have at QB, but i do know we cant afford to pay him 20M in 2017 unless we see more good than bad.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  31. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,753
    9,844
    113
    Nov 10, 2010

    When did Derek Carr surpass Tannehill? He has had one good season that was almost as good as Tannehill's 2014 season.
     
    dgfred and resnor like this.
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,327
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Look, if you're saying that Tannehill should have been better, despite the circumstances through his first four years, you HAVE TO have examples of other successful QBs who have dealt with similar levels of adversity and dysfunctionality. If you can't provide those examples, then you are simply holding Tannehill to a standard that seemingly no other QB has been held to.

    If you have examples of other QBs who were more successful than Tannehill, while dealing with similar total circumstances, then I'll stop arguing with you about this, and will agree that he should have shown more if he was really the answer.

    I can only assume that you have no examples, since you argue so vehemently that these things are our "opinions." Problem is, these aren't opinions. Our coaching staff did suck, hence they got fired. Our receivers were not good, hence the constant revolving door there. Our defense has been bad. Our running game has been abandoned. Our oline has been historically bad.

    These are facts, and these are what Tannehill has had to play under since day 1.
     
    Fin D and dgfred like this.
  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    Lol, this is getting worse by the minute.

    Go ahead and formulate a list of each Qbs OC and their ability and also include what theyhad the freedom to do over the life of pro football.

    Since it is a "fact" this should be easy right??

    Floor is yours.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Finster likes this.
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,327
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I never said it was easy. You are saying Tannehill isn't as successful as other QBs. I'm asking you to prove your point, by giving me the other QBs, in similar circumstances, who have been successful, in your opinion. I don't know what other QBs had sucky coaches, but I KNOW Tannehill did. We're giving facts about the Dolphins, and Tannehill's situation. Feel free to give your own facts refuting these. Feel free to show me the QBs who have overcome similar obstacles and been more successful.

    You're arguing that we're wrong. Don't ask me to prove your point for you.
     
    Fin D and dgfred like this.
  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    This year. He's ascending, Tanny is descending. Even comparing their best years, Similar ypa and 5 more TDs, same yards, yet only one more INT. I'd take all of those over 1.7 passer rating points. Passer rating favors higher completion %, even if it means 2 yard passes to Landry (this is why Tanny has a much higher completion % yet lower ypa). 5 more TDs is 18% more.

    Which season would you have rather have, just looking at stat lines. Tanny's or Carrs?

    Anyways, what do you think about Cousins.
     
    Finster likes this.
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,327
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yes, their situations are exactly the same, so it makes perfect sense to compare their stats to decide who is ascending and who is descending.
     
  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    I'm secure in my evaluation of Ryan, I dont need to make things up to prove im right or wrong.

    My argument is simply that we can not factually say what other Qbs have had a good or bad OC, nor can we guess who has been afforded more freedom at the LOS.

    This is reaching on a whole level....if you want to sell that point then sell it. But to walk around claiming its some sort of a fact is laughable and typical.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  38. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

    642
    259
    0
    Dec 17, 2015
    N.C., USA
    Dang... I bet you good at dodge-ball or bull fighting.
     
  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Do you get tired of the same tune over and over again. I would. Where were these exacerbating factors last year when he had his best year, and best stretch of his career. When we spent all offseason talking about he's going to ascend into the top 10, did anyone say, "But he's not allowed to audible, Lazor sucks, yada yada yada." Naw the board was mostly afraid of losing Lazor to a HC job!

    You can tell by Lazor's public statements (relative to his other public statements) that he was never a fan of Tannehill. Dating to early last year. Very first games. Yet he changed his offense enough to give Tanny his best stretch of his career. Where were your offseason posts about how Lazor was handcuffing Tannehill.

    I'll grant the oline, because protection is important but this pivoting on Lazor cracks me up. The audible thing too. We are so sure he'd handle that well? Sometimes you need to limit the field when a person's Sim card is just a little slower at processing.
     
    Steve-Mo, LBsFinest and Fin-O like this.
  40. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    I'm being serious when I say this, how can you be taken seriously when you constantly twist things out of proportion like this, and btw, when you do that, that a stance of the loser, only people who feel they are NOT on sound footing have to twist others words to fit their own argument, and that is a fact.

    Your statement there is not the general consensus here, nearly everyone thinks Tanne is avg or slightly above, and I don't know if I've heard anyone at all say that he is the biggest problem, so by your own actions you make it impossible to have a rational discussion.

    Same problem here, no one is saying they are irrelevant, so again, can't have rational discussion.

    This, as has been pointed out is utterly ridiculous, the only reason we can say these things, to whatever extent we can say these things, because Tanne may also be a part of the problem with a couple of those assumptions, is that we follow THIS team, no one follows every team, the only way you could come to any of those conclusions would be to follow every team as closely as we follow this team, which as I said, is utterly ridiculous.

    So how is it possible to have a rational discussion with all this? The answer is, you can't, and that is a fact.
     
    Fin-O likes this.

Share This Page