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Hopefully we hurt Brady enough to effect today's outcome.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by pumpdogs, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Respectfully disagree with your assertion - impossible to happen. Stealing signals is silly. all 32 Teams call in the plays both on offense and defense.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...alls-new-coachtodefense-communications-system



    NFL offensive coordinators have literally had the ear of their quarterbacks since 1994.

    Beginning that year, coaches were allowed to discuss plays and strategies with their quarterbacks before the snap via a coach-to-QB communication system inside the player's helmet.

    This year, for the first time, defenses will enjoy the same benefit. Like their offensive counterparts, defensive coordinators will designate a player to wear a "live" helmet equipped with a Motorola transmitter.


    Beginning this year, one defender on each team will wear a "live" helmet marked by a green dot, such as those worn by quarterbacks.

    Two defensive players will have "live" helmets, but only one of those helmets can be on the field at a time. If a primary player's equipment malfunctions or he sustains an injury, only then can a backup player's "live" helmet be used. Offensive and defensive helmets with the communication capability will be identified with a prominently displayed green dot.

    Several NFL players experimented with the new technology during OTAs and minicamps this year, including linebacker David Thornton, who will be the primary Titans defensive player to be equipped with the coach-to-defense technology this season.

    "I really enjoyed it," says Thornton. "I think it evens things out a little bit. Hopefully it will let us communicate a little better on Sundays."

    As with the offensive transmitters, the defensive devices will go live immediately after the play clock begins and will remain active until 15 seconds are left on the play clock or the snap of the ball, whichever comes first.

    "It's not a big adjustment for me," says Houston Texans Pro Bowl linebacker DeMeco Ryans, who also wore a "live" helmet during minicamp. "Usually, you don't have a coach talking to you until you get to the sidelines. Now, he's in your ear on the field."

    Much like the offensive helmet transmitter, the "live" defensive helmets will employ a frequency system that has 268 million different encryption codes, making it indecipherable to anyone trying to listen in. Several other clubs, including the Bills and Packers, tinkered with the new technology during offseason workouts. Players and coaches from both teams are excited about the innovation.

    "The communication will be a lot smoother because you won't have to signal," says Buffalo head coach Dick Jauron. "You still need to have signals as a backup in case the device goes down. But it's better. It's better."

    One of Jauron's star defenders, linebacker Paul Posluszny, agrees.

    "To have that short communication with the coach will help us and will make everything more clear," says Posluszny. "We won't be fighting to make sure we can get the signal or see the signal. So to have that will make things way more efficient."

    As with any new technology or rule change, there will be a period of adjustment. But Green Bay head coach Mike McCarthy thinks it will be an easy transition for defensive coaches and players.

    "We'll continue to get the players used to it, having the voice in their ear, and also the time frame that you're able to talk to the defensive player," he says. "We've used it throughout OTAs and minicamps, and it's really gone very smooth."

    Here's a closer look at how the coach-to-defense system will be administered this season:

    » Two defensive players from each team will be identified and will be authorized to have receivers in their helmets, one as the primary and the other as the backup.

    » The primary player will have one "live" helmet on the field and a second "live" helmet stored in a secured trunk or container as a backup in case of a malfunction.

    » The backup player will wear his regular helmet on the field and will have a "live" helmet stored in the secured trunk or container in the event of an injury to the primary player.

    » At no time will two defensive players from the same team be permitted to wear "live" helmets, either on the sideline or on the field, after pregame warm-ups or during the game.

    » The secured storage trunk or container will be of exact and identical specifications and will be provided by the league to all 32 clubs. The backup "live" helmet for the primary player and the single "live" helmet for the secondary player, along with two spare battery packs, will be secured in the trunk. The trunks will be positioned behind the benches near the Motorola communication centers and will be designated as off-limits areas to players, coaches, and club personnel. The trunks will be clearly marked, and access will be controlled and monitored by NFL personnel or designees throughout the game.

    » The helmets will be tested in pregame, as is done with the coach-to-quarterback helmets, and the two backup helmets will be immediately secured in the trunk.

    » The NFL personnel assigned to the game or their designees will maintain a written log of the usage and return of the backup helmets and spare battery packs. The form will be sent to the league office each week for review.
     
  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Well, those are the rules and procedures. I guess nobody can break/circumvent them to their advantage.


    Case closed.
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If they did, it would be for minimal or no advantage. They break them for fun apparently.
     
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  4. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I am unsure what you mean by they risked everything? What did they risk? The Patriots are still one of the most dominating teams in football and still have 4 super bowl rings, maybe getting ready for a fifth. 5 super bowl ring's - no one will ever duplicate that in such a short time frame.

    I respect them because they stand for excellence. They are/have become an excellent football team. I believe they are stronger this year then maybe in any other year they have won the super bowl. Every year they are primed and ready. The Patriots don't get that way because they mistakenly filmed from the wrong location or a couple balls were under inflated. As far as other posters saying they cheat by talking in the headset longer to Brady or intercepting the defensive or offensive calls of the other team is simply not true. The helmets have 256 bit encryption and are controlled by the NFL and directly supervised by NFL officials. When the play clock runs down to 15 or the ball is snapped the headsets turn.

    I dont like them either, but I respect them because of what they are capable of. You don't put together a team like Belicheck has and maintain it for as long as he has by not doing all the little things correctly. It's the attention to details that make the difference. How many times have coaches left the team and The Patriots not even skip a beat. Nah the culture and process' they employ make them as successful as they are. Belicheck must eat, breath and sleep football.
     
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  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    They win because they cheat. They risked a lot by doing what they've done. They wouldn't do that if it didn't give them an advantage. And if they risked so much for a small benefit, then they are likely cheating even bigger. Nothing else makes any sense based on their actions.

    They do not stand for excellence, they stand for tainted victories because they cheat. You should know what excellence is, Don Shula was our coach.

    I ask again, why do they deserve the benefit of the doubt?
     
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  6. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Well even so, everyone else was probably up to something anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Probably.
     
  8. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    All through this thread you keep making the same generic statements over and over. Yet you never quantify what, if they cheated, they gained. You never quantify what "SO MUCH" is.

    Please by all means tell us what ways the Patriots are cheating bigger. What has to make sense? They video taped per league rules in the wrong location. Who gives a ****? A couple balls were deflated and now they are cheaters there too? Maybe the guy who inflated them was lazy or the guage wasn't accurate. Did you ever think of that?

    The NFL rulebook is very specific about what is and isn’t allowed regarding its footballs.

    The rulebook section titled “ball dimensions” states: “The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.”

    The referee, according to the rulebook, is the sole judge as to whether the footballs comply with those specifications. The footballs remain under the supervision of the referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant before the start of the game.

    Section 2 of the rulebook involves the supply of the footballs: “Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of
    the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.”

    The final paragraph of the rule on game balls notes that it is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

    http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/313588/light-deflate-gate-look-nfl-rules-regarding-footballs

    So one can conclude from the rules at the time that the Patriots must have deflated the balls on camera. Where is the video?

    Why do the Patriots deserve the benefit of the doubt? Because no one has proven a damn thing. No One. Good thing your not a Judge in a court of law. You'd send a guy to the gas chamber because you didnt like the way he dressed.
     
  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Yeah, and Don Shula ILLEGALLY wet down the sides of the field before a game against the Raiders to take away the advantage of their speedster WRs so that the Fins would have the advantage with their ground game.

    EDIT, and btw, so did Noll.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If I keep saying the same thing, how come you need me to clarify?

    They risk these things: draft picks, suspensions, money, possibly more if Goodell decides. You know the stuff that's already happened. Those aren't small things. So again, why would they risk all that for something that gives them no benefit. Be honest and logical.

    They have proven plenty, you're quite literally not making any sense. They were proven to be cheaters with the tape and the ball deflating. That was proven and not in question. I'm guessing you didn't actually follow any of it.
     
  11. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The CIA and FBI couldn't get into those communications, they're too encrypted.
     
  12. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    But of course if you have the keys there's no need to pick any locks. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Say someone got their hands on equipment configured to use the same encoding key/ciphers and decryption keys. That's all it would take. You wouldn't even need any social engineering with enough cash to toss at people. But who would the poor patriots know with any money to invest in that kind of thing?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    1. Why would there be video evidence of the team deflating balls? They would have to be the dumbest cheaters ever to have that.

    2. You don't have to know the encryption to mess with the signals.

    3. I don't believe the NFL actually controls the radios.

    4. They didn't fight the loss of their pick in the upcoming draft. An innocent team doesn't simply give that up.


    Look, not being able to prove someone cheated isn't the same as then not cheating.

    Still interesting that most of the Pats defenders are also the anti-Tannehill guys.
     
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  14. schisno

    schisno Well-Known Member

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    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/1-year...-science-shows-shame-of-it-all-073316233.html

    It's an interesting look at the hoopla of last offseason's controversy
     
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  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I hope you don't mean this as anything more than playing devil's advocate. Technically a ton of things are possible, but suggesting the Patriots somehow can read the encrypted material without clear proof is an idea that should be dismissed.

    Look, if you think people will go that far then it's far easier to just bribe the officials. More impact and a lot less sophisticated.
     
  16. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    LOL at people defending the Pats in this thread.

    Brady and Belichick are both really good at their job.

    They also cheat. A lot.
     
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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  18. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    True. Though it seems any evidence to suggest malfeasance could be disregarded as proof of anything to some. What's the point? And let's not forget how potentially damning evidence disappears, can be burned, crushed or otherwise destroyed.

    Bribing officials could work. And an impeccable home record while suggestive can't possibly be proof of anything.
     
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  19. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Watch the movie Concussion, and see how the NFL handled that situation, and the people responsible for bringing it to light.

    Then ask yourself why the NFL would handle perennial cheaters differently.
     
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  21. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    "The Colts' balls were as much out of range as the Patriots' balls," Leonard told a class on the deflate-gate at UNH, according to the Boston Globe. "It's pretty much an open-and-shut case, but somehow [commissioner Roger] Goodell never understood it, and still doesn't to this day."
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And yet we have text messages telling us Brady was giving merch for inflated balls. We have video of the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom AFTER they were inspected for no reason.
     
  23. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Nature calls bro.
     
  24. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Clearly.
     
  25. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Ignore my question? What if anything did the Patriots gain if they cheated?
     
  26. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    So you are saying that the Patriots in front of the replay camera has managed to not only break 256 encryption but also messed with the system?
     
  27. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    And yet there is no evidence of any footballs actually being tampered with. Strange.

    It'll be interesting to see of the NFL releases their findings from this year, and how much they managed to slant it if so.
     
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  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It does not take a clandestine operation to steal a playbook. Just a couple of parties willing to break the rules.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
  29. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    1. because the balls are in the posession of the referee until immediately before the game starts

    2. oh so now the story is going to change, now they are messing with signals not stealing them and/or talking to Brady beyond 15 seconds.

    ?? The NFL absolutely controls the radios. There is no possible way the radios would disconnect at 15 seconds left on the play clock or at the snap of the ball

    3. see above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    4. sure they do. The lasting effect of the negative publicity would absolutely get the Patriots to give up the fight

    Not being able to prove someone cheated isn't the same as cheating? you can't be serious - ever heard of innocent until proven guilty

    I like Tannehill. I think the guy has gotten a raw deal. For his entire career he has had a QB coach who played 2 seasons in college, and multiple coaches and schemes. The guy has put up back to back to back 4000 yard seasons and he's not good enough. Saddled with this teams mess of an offensive line and turnstile of receivers through here and you guys want him to be Dan Marino. Give the kid a break
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No. You're ignoring my question. Why would they do those things and risk all the trouble they got in if it gave no benefit?
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    There is no evidence to be had. Letting air out of a ball leaves no evidence. Why are we discounting or ignoring the texts?
     
  32. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Except you forget about the password which is definitely changed every game. Different password different keys.

    Did you actually think they wouldn't have thought of something so simple?

    Usually for OS password protection systems use hash functions such as SHA2 or MD5 hashing algorithms - one way functions. Hash is a material you get when your initial message or password is processed via these hashing functions, this material is always the same length for example 32/160/256 bit long. Also smallest change in your message or password changes output hash dramatically. Also hash function is designed so that it will give the same length hash output or digest regardless of input message length, so if you hash 500kbyte long message in md5 hash function you will get only 32bit long hash output and it will give you 32bit long hash if you will process 10byte message as well. Usually to get to initial result you would need to generate many input values and hash it with hash function and compare result it it matches the one you are looking to revert. So OS will verify your password just by comparing stored hashed value and the hash of the password you entered, therefore there is no need to compute password from hash. Also keep in mind that newer OS also uses "salted" hashes, which are even more difficult to crack because hash from the same password of 2 different users will not be the same, because system will use a "salt" - kind of prefix added to hashing material and hash results will be always different.
    It is possible to have same hash for more than one password and it is called a hash collision, it certainly does not mean that all passwords work that hash.

    Now if you think the Patriots have somehow payed off a high ranking official of the NFL to change give them the passwords the NFL has a whole other set of issues.

    The passwords are most likely randomly generated and no one knows what they are

    as an earlier poster stated......not even the FBI or CIA have the ability to break these systems

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA_hash_fu...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptograph...
    http://www.mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/md5coll..
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    List of companies that have been hacked:

    by Time Magazine


    Premera Blue Cross
    Anthem
    Chick-fil-A
    Sony
    U.S. Postal Service
    MCX
    Staples
    Kmart
    Dairy Queen
    Supervalu
    Viator.com
    Jimmy John’s
    Home Depot
    Community Health Systems / Tennova
    P.F. Chang’s
    JP Morgan

    You think there's better security on NFL headset frequencies than JP Morgan has on their data?
     
  34. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    Except the air pressure remaining in the football. When the NFL tried to confirm the Colts' accusations on this, they were no different than pressure in the Colts. That shows me that they either weren't tampered with, or they both were tampered with. Frankly, the NFL should have continued to monitor the pressure in NE games in attempt to gain evidence of wrongdoing. Instead, inflated numbers were leaked as to how much these footballs differed from the rules and got everybody outraged.

    The texts don't do it for me because there is no hard evidence backing them up. Not only can they be out of context and cherry-picked (like the Wells report itself), but I see that many NFL QBs have a preference for the way their footballs feel. Rodgers prefers extremely hard footballs, for example. If Rodgers were to complain about the softness of his footballs during a given game, is that evidence the equipment mangers failed to inflate his footballs to illegal levels? Evidence Rodgers was even aware of such restrictions, or considered it, or anything besides his preference from a selection of footballs?
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Honest question, did you see the texts in the report? There was a clear system of Brady wanting balls a certain way and a person making that happen with bribes.
     
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  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm pretty sure that the NFL doesn't actually control the headsets. For instance:

    Also, the headsets not shutting off was reported by Doug Flutie, was it not? Further, many teams have pointed at Gillette as a place where they routinely experience headset issues, which is why the accusation of Patriots disrupting frequencies comes from.
     
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  37. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    I read them around the time they were released (I do recall a funny jab at Brady's deflating QBR) and I'm going off the impression I had at that time. I'd have to look at them again as far as obvious bribes occuring. I do imagine Brady has given a lot of merch to Patriots employees and not necessarily because they're breaking rules for him. It also is entirely possible to have a pressure preference that falls within the leagues restrictions.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    But again....we're dealing with an organization that are known cheaters. We have texts illustrating that Person X on behalf of Brady wants Person Y to deflate the balls to Brady's liking and in exchange he gets (I believe it was) shoes/merchandise. (No reason to do that if it was within legal levels.) The we have video of Person Y taking the footballs into a bathroom stall after the refs inspected them. Then we find out the balls were under inflated.

    In the face of all that, we're to believe all of this was...........mere coincidence? Does that honestly seem reasonable?
     
  39. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    But when did we find out the balls were any more under-inflated than the ones the Colts were responsible for (all factors considered)? To me, this is a crucial bit that fits everything together as more than speculation or coincidence or whatever after the fact. Personally, I'd want some cash in exchange for breaking rules that could cost me my career. Hey, some shoes would be a nice throw in for making me make sure every football is to your liking every week though.

    They could have video of a suspicious Bill Billichick peering out of the bathroom, moistening a pump needle with his mouth, and I'd still want proof the balls were underinflated. What do the circumstances matter if it cannot be proven the rule in question was broken? This is no less or more than what I'd expect if the Dolphins faced these allegations.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The ball boy isn't making much, man. You take the merch because you get to still be around the team you love. You want cash? Then they get a ball boy who'll do it for some of Brady's sweaty socks.
     
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