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Chip Kelly...?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by muskrat21, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    So a Jets fan posts on a Dolphins site?? And we allow it?


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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    McLovin is a Pats fan.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    We talking about Bickety? He's been a decent poster. There a number of guys on this site who are fans of other teams, and come here and post, and are decent. Why would we not allow other team's fans to post here, as long as they aren't trolling and being obnoxious?
     
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  4. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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  5. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    My impression of Tannebaum is that he wants to be the HMFIC. You can see the way Hickey has basically become the invisible man since Tannebaum joined the Dolphins. I just don't see a strong willed coach like Kelly working well with Tannebaum.

    The only way I could see Kelly ending up in Miami is if he has no other options at the NFL level and he doesn't want to return to the college game. Yet I think he will have other options in the NFL.

    Kelly couldn't get along with the staff above him in Philly and that is why the owner gave him all the power this past season.

    My view is that Tannebaum wants to have input on the players who are drafted and signed in free agency and Kelly clearly showed in Philly that he wants final say on the players on his roster, including getting rid of any player he doesn't want on his team. I just see immediate conflicts between these two men if they were forced to work together.

    Since I really don't see Kelly coming to Miami, obviously we will never know if they could co-exist. I just think it would be a bad marriage from day one.
     
  6. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Knew it. His whole life is football, going back to college would be a tough pill for him to swallow.

    http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4496615
     
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Ok that answered the question. Thanks.

    I would say though, that Kelly has come out say he didn't want control and Tbaum had no problem letting Hickey be the GM.

    I would also say both Tbaum and Kelly have a predilection for sports science stuff.
     
  8. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Fans of all teams are welcome.
     
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  9. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    When I was mentioning teams he might end up with earlier, I completely forgot about the Colts. While I expect him to end up with the Titans if he remains in the NFL, the Colts with Andrew Luck wouldn't be a bad spot for him either.

    One other option if he should decide to return to college might be, the University of Texas. Strong has his supporters at Texas, but a lot of the big money men at Texas might decide they won't have another opportunity to get a top college head coach like Kelly in the foreseeable future.

    With all the money Texas football generates, they can afford to pay off Strong's contract and still have plenty of money left over to pay Kelly 8-10 million a year.
     
  10. Hellion

    Hellion Crash Club Member

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    People act like Chip Kelly's only issue was his lack of GM abilities. He lost his players as a coach. The network is all over it talking about not only Murry complaining but other players and they talked with several about his coaching. Sorry but the guy is a mess
     
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  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    You could possibly be right and maybe they would be fine together, but as I stated earlier. I just don't see them working well together for the reasons I expressed.

    Like many other times, we just have a difference of opinion on this issue, but I have grown over the years to value your opinions, even if we don't always see eye to eye.
     
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  12. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I turned on the NFL channel and you are correct. There seems to be a lot of information coming out that he lost the support of his players and some NFL people are being quoted as saying he is better suited for the college game.

    Whether this is just the Eagles trying to cover their butts to explain the firing of Kelly, or there is actually some fire behind this smoke will be determined over the next week.

    We will learn very soon if there is any substance to the latest reports coming out of Philly. If no other team in the NFL goes after him to be their head coach, perhaps that will show there is some truth to these rumors. Yet if he is a candidate with several teams, it just might be the Eagle organization trying to come up with reasons beyond the fact they just had a lousy season.
     
  13. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    and all the decent college openings have been filled at least a month ago.
     
  14. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Say no to Chip. This means there's one more coaching vacancy and more competition for a potential HC candidate.
     
  15. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    There have been rumors that Jim Mora at UCLA, or even Brian Kelly at ND, could possibly be head coaching candidates in the NFL this year. In fact there has been some speculation, which I personally don't believe, Saban could take another NFL head coaching job if Alabama wins another national championship.


    The University of Texas could possibly decide to make a run at Kelly, if they decide he would be a better long term head coach than Strong. If any of the jobs open up at UCLA, ND, or less likely Alabama, there could still be some very attractive major college jobs for Kelly to be a candidate for if he isn't hired for another NFL job.

    No matter what happens. Kelly will be paid nearly $14 million dollars to not coach the Eagles the next two years. So even though it has been reported that he wants to coach next year. He could always decide to sit out a year and have his pick of the many college football head coaching jobs which will certainly be available after the 2016 season is over.
     
  16. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Yeah... but you didn't hear much when they were 10-6. Disgruntled players not playing up to potential on a crappy team. Now they are not happy and some 'didn't play' for the coach/team.

    I for one would LOVE somebody (anybody) to come in and clean house. Just like Kelly did at Philly. It couldn't be worse than it is now and at least then even if it didn't work we would be starting from scratch anyway with an another coach.

    Tear it down. Complain (cut you), dont perform (cut you), don't work hard enough (trade you), don't like your attitude (trade you or cut you). I like his plan.
     
  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Since the Dolphins are likely to finish this season 5-11. I think you are going to see a lot of tearing down on this years roster, no matter who the next head coach is.

    This team hasn't had a winning record in seven years. So other than just a handfull of players on the entire roster. No one else should feel they have a spot on this roster heading into next season.
     
  18. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    I agree but we have been 'here' before... never tore anything down.
     
  19. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Actually when you examine the roster from the year before Philbin was hired until the day he was fired, there was a lot of change in personnel over that 3 year period.

    The problem over the last decade and a half hasn't been an unwillingness to tear things down. The problem has been that there haven't been the right people in charge of building it back up in a successful manner.
     
  20. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Yeah, but tearing it down then requires good moves to build back up. We might do the tearing down but the good moves part is non-existant. Really... I can't think of one. Suh isn't even doing anything.
     
  21. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    Everything we do seems to be a bandaid move.
     
  22. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Rock,

    I think what PD was trying to get across is that Chip Kelly’s offense suffered from many of the same ailments as did Miami’s and that Kelly may be more likely to backfire than we think should Miami hire him. Whether it was directly related to any similarity in the scheme or in the strategy behind the plays, the end result of the offense in Philly was very similar to what it was in Miami. Having witnessed the struggles all season in Miami, I agree with PD that we the fans should at least have reason to ask questions about Kelly. In my mind, Kelly is at best an unproven NFL OC with a tainted reputation.

    For whatever reason, the Eagles’ offense routinely seemed out of sync, ill-prepared, ill-equipped and at times downright inept. While I can’t say I know for sure that this was always true, I can definitely say that in the few Eagles games I watched it was very true. That, in and of itself, ought to worry a team that is currently facing the same criticism. Take my perspective for what it is (lacking), but I understand the point PD is making here. It seems to me that everything folks have been complaining about down here in Miami was more or less apparent up in Philly, too. Football Outsiders ranked Mia and Philly as 26th and 27th in total offense, respectively. Both offenses were out-classed in many cases by otherwise average defenses that seemed to be able to shut it down with relative ease once they caught on to the general concepts.

    Just to summarize, Kelly seemed to continually feature certain plays that didn’t work. The stretch run is a great example. Despite not working, it and others remained a key ingredient in the game-plans. Kelly seemed to feature a lot of short throws which heavily reduced the square footage the defense had to cover thereby making the margin of error razor thin for even the most simplistic offensive plays. The tempo was very inconsistent as well. The offense sometimes seemed unable to generate yardage and highly prone to 3-and-outs because of these factors. Maybe these things happened amidst an offensive scheme that was slightly different from that in Miami but theory aside, the practical limitations seemed to be quite obvious and in most cases nearly the same as what we all saw this year in Miami.

    Without knowing more about why the Eagles offense degenerated this year we have to question whether or not Kelly is a legitimate coordinator at this point. He too may have been hamstrung by players who couldn’t operate the hurry-up or by other things we can’t see but on the surface, but the Eagles generally suffered the same decline as did Miami over the last couple years. In fact, I called them out as being the Dolphins of the NFC just a couple weeks back. The short-comings of both teams are strikingly similar.

    Now, in regards to Chip Kelly’s “success” I think we need to be smarter than to take the 10-win seasons at face value. Here is a look at the NFC East over the last 3 years:

    Cowboys: 8-wins, 12-wins, 4-wins
    Giants: 7-wins, 6-wins, 6-wins
    Redskins: 3-wins, 4-wins, 8-wins

    Over the last 3 seasons, Kelly’s division rivals have earned a combined record or 58-83 for a winning percentage of 41%. Over that time, only one team has finished with a winning record! It’s clearly a bad division.

    By comparison, Miami’s 8-8 records in 2013 and 2014 would have finished tied for 1[SUP]st[/SUP] and alone in 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], in those years respectively. Over the last 3 seasons the Miami’s division rivals have totaled a record of 80-61 for a winning percentage of 57%. It’s clear that Philbin’s rivals represented a much tougher challenge than did Kelly’s. It’s likely that Kelly’s 10-win seasons in the NFC East would have been more like 8- or 9-win seasons had he been in the AFC East.

    When you combine (1) the environment in which he obtained his W/L record, (2) a knowledge that he has no ability to work free agency in a way that will benefit the team (which makes me suspicious as to whether or not he can evaluate the players he has or is given), (3) a propensity to alienate relatively good players, (4) a history of having destroyed the Eagles well-above-average receiving corp and (5) an inability to properly script his play-calling in a manor in which you feel best utilizes the talent he has, you have to pause and ask yourself if this Chip Kelly talk is not just all hype at this point.




    What’s funny to me is that here we have a coach who brought a relatively inconsequential school in a very top-heavy conference to national attention. That says he’s got a gimmick. To understand the legitimacy of the gimmick we need to look closer. If we look at his success at Oregon we see he achieved it through running a scheme which quite frankly typified college football. He recruited the right athletes and beat the Pac-10 with a brute force approach to the game that most defenses simply couldn’t match.

    The differences between NCAA and NFL football are very often exaggerated but in the case of a coach like Kelly they are meaningful. The notion that Chip Kelly was going to revolutionize the NFL was always naïve. The NFL is about flexibility and adaptability far more than anything else. There is no brute force way of sustaining success in the NFL so Kelly’s approach had to change and he’s struggled in the process.

    The problem is coaches that have massive success at the NCAA level do not historically overhaul everything they do when they enter the NFL. For some coaches making the transition, what they do works at both levels (i.e. Pete Carroll) while for others what they do and who they are wind up being more grounded in the realities of one level (i.e. Nick Saban). In my estimation, the excitement inherent in Chip Kelly’s play-calling at Oregon over-inflated his value as he came into the NFL and it hasn’t been long enough for all of it to wear off. The reality is that there are serious questions about his ability to evaluate NFL players and to utilize them effectively within an offensive scheme that makes sense and that he achieved little more than what Joe Philbin did in terms of wins and losses (26-21 vs 24-28) all while having the advantage of lesser opponents in an easier division. For a coach that won nearly half his games and had to contend with a rough division, Philbin gets a bad rap. For an NFC East coach that had it relatively easy and who barely won more than half his games, Kelly gets off too easily.

    In my eyes, once we separate Kelly from this tired mysticism regarding his so-called offensive genius that is virtually all based on what he did while at a relatively small university in the northwestern United States, we’re left looking at an NFL coach who appears remarkably unspectacular and an awful lot like all the other college coaches that came to the NFL before him and struggled. Like them, Kelly showed that he could quite easily overextend himself with his responsibilities and that he ultimately knew less about building a successful NFL roster and adjusting his scheme than did his contemporaries. Maybe somewhere on down the line, once he’s had time to reflect, adjust and grow he’ll become the more flexible, adaptable type of coach he needs to be but I don’t see Kelly moving directly into another NFL HC job at this moment and doing anything outside of what he did while in Philadelphia, which as we just saw ended disappointingly.
     
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  23. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The #1 objection to Chip Kelly is that he might bring Sanchez with him......if he swears in blood that he will not do that, fine he can interview!
     
  24. dgfred

    dgfred Free Agent pickup

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    I think he is 'eyeing' getting to the Titans... and his boy.
     
  25. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    titans situation is a good one.. He gets the number 1 pick, he has Mariota, and that division is probably the worst in football.. Its not that difficult to beat the Colts even with Andrew Luck at 100%, there is a vast lack of talent on that team.
     
  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I would be totally shocked if going to the Titans wasn't his first choice. Rumors before the draft last year were that Kelly was trying everything in reason to move up and take Mariotta in the draft, but he just didn't have the picks or players needed to move up.

    The only question is, do the Titans have the same interest in Kelly, he has in them? It appears they will probably have a new GM going into next season. So is the owner going to hire Kelly and force the next GM to accept Kelly as the head coach? Or, is the owner going to hire a GM and let that GM decide if he wants to hire Kelly or another possible candidate ?

    It should be interesting to see how things work out for Kelly.
     
  27. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I mean he's going there unless they don't want him. Its really a no brainer. Talent wise they aren't that far from us, they have no huge contracts weighing them down, they will have the #1 overall pick and a top notch young Qb that he himself coached in college. Unless they don't want him, thats where he is going. There won't be pressure to win immediately either. If he can get them to 6-7 wins next year and Mariottas shows improvement everyone will be happy.
    Here if he doesn't compete for a division title and get a playoff spot he's going to be looked at as a failure.
     
  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Hopefully Dolphin fans realize the next head coach isn't going to be able to work miracles. If anyone truly expects the Dolphins to contend for a playoffs spot next year or even in 2017, they just aren't accepting how little talent the Dolphins have on their roster at this time.

    There are maybe 10 players of the starting 22 who would be starters on a good football team.

    I was never a fan of the Philbin hiring, but I stated when he was hired that he deserved three years as the head coach before we started calling for his firing. Unfortunately I didn't even take my own advise. I admit I was finished with Philbin as the Dolphins head coach before the Dolphins played the Jets in the final game of the 2014 season.

    I had seen enough before that and I just thought the coaching staff and especially Philbin were not qualified for their jobs. I stated after Ross announced that Philbin was coming back in 2015 that I thought this season would be a wasted year for Dolphin fans.

    While there are certain candidates I favor over others rumored for the job. I think that no matter who is hired, Dolphin fans are going to have to be patient, especially next year. Because I don't see the Dolphins being better than a 500 team until at least 2018.

    They need to have solid drafts and hit on the majority of their free agent signings and if they do, they should be ready to contend for a playoff spot in 2018.
     
  29. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Keep in mind that in the NFL 2 years is an eternity. There's not a scenario wherein an NFL team wouldn't question its HC if after 3 years the team didn't make the Play-offs. Even in a worst case scenario of say a 1- or 2-win team, the pressure would be on in year 3 to reach the Play-offs.

    The Dolphins definitely have the talent to reach the Play-offs in 2017 if they do the right things, virtually everyone around the league does. It's winning in 2016 that would be impressive. But setting the standard for 2018 and beyond? That's simply setting the bar too low. The Dolphins won 8 games in 2013 and 2014 and will win at least 5 this year. Even if we guess that at a minimum it would take 3-4 more wins to reach Play-off contention starting at where they are right now, we need only remember that those type of turnarounds happen every year.

    It doesn't take a "miracle" to improve by 3-4 wins. It just takes a year or two of solid drafting and good coaching. The standard for next season will probably start at about 6 wins so, yes, by 2017 the standard should be up around 8-9 which is bordering on Play-offs. That's just how it works.
     
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  30. BicketyBam

    BicketyBam No Fist Pumps Allowed

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    It's not like I'm here piling on your team. Relax.

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  31. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Sorry but I have been reading that same thing for what seems like years. While occasionally a team will seem to come out of nowhere to make the playoffs. The reality is that it takes several good drafts and quality free agent signings before a team can be a valid playoff contender.

    Right now the Dolphins have one of the worst rosters in the NFL. They still don't know if their QB is good enough to lead them to the playoffs.

    Three of their best players, Miller, Vernon, and Matthews are all free agents and none of them may be on the roster next year.

    Saying, "if they do the rights things" could be said about any team or situation in life. Unfortunately, after seven years as the Dolphins owner, I am still waiting for Ross to do one thing right, in regards to selecting the right people to run this football team.

    While I accept that anything is possible. I still believe it will be at least 2018 before this team will be a legitimate playoff contender and that is only if Ross finally does hire a quality head coach. If he doesn't, in three year we will be having this exact same discussion.
     
  32. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    And if that happens I will either be in the grave or find something better to do on my sundays.
     
  33. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Since I am 65 years old, I know exactly how you feel. While I certainly have the fond memories of the great Dolphin teams which most of the younger fans never got to experience.

    The fact is this constant rebuilding, which seems like it has been going on for well over a decade is getting really frustrating. Hopefully things will change over the next few years or both you and I might be worm food before this team makes the playoffs again.
     
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  34. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I fear as long as ross is owner we are going to be treading water for another decade.
     
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  35. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

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    I have no problem with it. Just seems weird. Like I have no desire to be on another teams board. But to each his own.


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