1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Beasley - Advanced Stats Show Ryan Tannehill has regressed in Year 4

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bumrush, Dec 13, 2015.

  1. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    Not stupid, just uninformed.
     
  2. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    Nobody said it's not ok to say you dislike Tannehill. I am very unhappy with his game this season. It's the way the cases and arguments are taking place that's the problem. Like your post earlier in this thread. That's the stuff people are referring to, it's not the opinion, it's the way said opinion gets presented... and yes, it happens with those in favor of Tannehill, and those not in favor. It happens both ways.
     
  3. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    Where are you getting this from?

    The whole term "system" is way overblown. There are a handful of offenses, just with different terminologies and minor tweaks.

    As for the short passing. I'd take a look at the OL and the RB position before assuming that they came about bc of a problem st QB.
     
    resnor and brandon27 like this.
  4. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Yep, feel the exact same way. I probably only visit the board a couple of times per week now, it's just the same arguments over and over.
     
  5. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    Agreed. It'd the same thing over and over. Choose a scapegoat, cry about him endlessly, attack anyone who gets in the way until said scapegoat is gotten rid of then move on to the next scapegoat.

    I miss the days when everything was supposedly on Philbin. Qeasy Joe, the anchor holding back the offense and the team. Poor Bill Lazor stuck w a hapless HC. Then Philbin is fired and now Lazor sucks. Lazor is fired and now Tannehill sucks. If Tannehill is fired bet it'll be Hickey and/Tannenbaum. It's like clockwork.
     
    DolphinGreg likes this.
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    and what was it that you were more informed about than them?.
     
    Bpk, jdang307, Sceeto and 2 others like this.
  7. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

    1,407
    874
    113
    May 11, 2014

    and that's what lazor did. he took chip kelly's offense and brought it here. so your first point negates your 2nd.
     
  8. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

    6,338
    2,400
    113
    Nov 22, 2014
    I am not tired of the conversation, but I don't like tannehill. Honestly this board has been way better then other boards on this discussion and attacks. I've never liked what I saw of him. Believe me I wanted to be wrong, but what I saw from the beginning and even last year others are starting to see now. When I made those comments I was bashed and called names and belittled, so I don't mind the growing support so much. He seems like a wonderful person and a great person to represent the organization, and I've tried to see what others talk about with him, but I just cannot see any potential.

    Part of being a fan or a coach is looking at a team and trying to find where you can approve. The QB in this case is the biggest area of topic. The only team that one could not complain about is the 72 Dolphins and that was only after the season was over.
     
    Bumrush and Finster like this.
  9. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Our offense is definitely not Kelly's. We've borrowed concepts and plays like the read option screen pass but it's distinguishable as its own thing.
     
    Finster likes this.
  10. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

    2,148
    1,398
    113
    May 3, 2010
    Not according to those in the know...

    http://articles.philly.com/2015-11-13/sports/68223744_1_bill-lazor-chip-kelly-dolphins-offense

    "I think [Lazor] has his offense that's probably more similar to what he was doing when he was at Virginia than what he was doing when he was here," Kelly said Wednesday.
    Tannehill said Lazor had him watch a lot of Eagles film when he first came aboard last spring. He estimated that 25 percent of the offense was based on Kelly's first-year system. But just as the Eagles' scheme has evolved over the last three years, so has the Dolphins' offense.
    "I would say it's got an influence," Campbell said via conference call. "I wouldn't say it's a majority of what we do."
     
  11. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Some people are informed by different things. Information asymmetry does not mean uninformed. In fact, two people can have the same information and still come to different conclusions. It's called subjectivity. Numbers are objective in and of themselves. Once you contextualize them, perspective plays a big role in interpretation.
     
  12. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Who gives a s--t? What? Has Kelly's offense in the NFL proven to be some exceptional juggernaut of an offense? No. I would say: "Meh" in regards to Kelly's "system".
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    That's an interesting theory. Do you have any proof to support it?
     
  14. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,073
    22,828
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    my statement was directed at the person in the quote for the immature shot across the bow that he posted. It was stupid and I called him on it.
     
    djphinfan and resnor like this.
  15. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

    2,148
    1,398
    113
    May 3, 2010
    It appears Tannehill himself doesn't see progression this year:

    Tannehill was asked recently in what ways he has progressed, and the quarterback didn't have a clear answer.
    "I don't know," Tannehill said. "This year has been a crazy year for us for a lot of different reasons. It's tough to say."


    OC Taylor doesn't refer to on-field play other than admitting taking a step back, but communication with teammates has improved, so there's that:

    Offensive coordinator Zac Taylor, who knows Tannehill better than anyone with the Dolphins because of their ties at Texas A&M, admitted that stats may suggest the quarterback has taken a step back on the field. But Taylor said Tannehill has improved in other areas.
    "I think his communication has been really good, I really do," Taylor said. "I think he communicates well with all the new receivers that we have, the tight ends and they are really on the same page, in practice, in meetings and taking ownership of the offense."

    http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolph...-tannehill-is-the-dolphins-96-million-mystery
     
  16. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

    3,087
    2,038
    113
    Jul 27, 2013
    Watch the 1st 3 games from last year, you'll see there is a difference in routes run, and the distance specifically, which is why he looked like "the same old Tanne" from the previous 2 years, then Lazor scaled back the routes to get them closer to the LOS.
     
  17. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    Nobody in this forum "loves" or "hates" Ryan Tannehill. Using those words to portray someones perspective on a football player is a bad idea. To classify me or anyone else as a "lover" of a QB who is obviously struggling this year is part of the problem. It's insulting to me that you would want to classify people like that when I'm quite positive almost every person here sees both good and bad in Ryan Tannehill. At best, he's a developing prospect who can reach the Play-offs and win with a great team around him. No one is making an argument that he's destined for greatness. The debate is about whether or not he's good enough to build around. Love and hate don't make sense to me when you're talking about a prospect.

    Same problem. Using "love" and "hate" to sum-up someone's views is lazy and short-sighted. It's not accurate and thus it's disrespectful. Use better verbiage and you won't come across nearly as snarky, sarcastic or condescending. I'm sure you're a nice guy but every time you say "Tannehill lover" I can't help but think...who is this guy referring to? If you're referring to Resnor. It's a total lie. He doesn't "love" Tannehill and neither do I.

    Adam, I wanted to follow up from the other thread so I'll just quote you on this but in general I just wanted to grab your attention.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong. Don’t get mad at me. I respect what you’re saying and I totally see where you’re coming from. However, I would say we have slightly different perspectives on what the short-term actions should be.

    It sounds like you’ve analyzed the offense and the player and that you feel it’s time for the team to move on. I’m thinking big picture here and wondering if it’s the right time for that to happen? Some would say you move on finding a QB unless you’re sure you have one. I understand that, but I think it’s a bit simplistic. Thus, we just disagree slightly on the practical path forward at this juncture--whether Miami needs to draft a QB in 2016.

    I don’t know whether Tannehill is going to be a long-term answer, but I think 2016 needs to be a year where the team gets stronger as a whole and the new coaches get to probe Tannehill. I don’t think the team should force (or deny) the new coaches access to Tannehill. In my mind, the team will be better off pressing the hold button on the QB position while Tannehill’s more or less locked in by his contract.

    Now, I haven’t analyzed the QBs coming out this year at all, but barring there being anyone really supremely talented, I wouldn’t go in the direction of a QB in round 1 or 2 quite yet. Keep in mind I’ve laid out why I’m not really interested in a mid-to-late round QB. Even if Miami did bring in a developmental prospect, I think Tannehill realistically beats that guy out anyway.

    I think 2016 should be a year wherein the team adds talent and secures its next HC. To me, those are the priorities. I’m not sure I want to see any major restructuring (i.e. 43 to 34, rookie QB, etc.) and I definitely don’t want to see the team overextending on any big contracts. The needs of the team are many thus I’d prefer the team add a couple of talented defenders or go about fixing the line while letting the next HC evaluated the QB.

    Along those lines, Tannehill seems to be in a perfect position to go out and prove/disprove himself worthy during the 2016 campaign. Not only does his contract open up in 2017 which would make replacing him a much more realistic option but the new coaching staff will have had ample opportunity to work with and evaluate him.


    Here’s the kicker. There have been several people who have said the team shouldn’t ‘force Ryan Tannehill on the next coach.’ I agree, but the opposite is also true. We shouldn’t deny the next coaches access either. Nor should we sit here and say that guys like Mike Shula, Hue Jackson, Kyle Shanahan, Teryl Austin or Vic Fangio are worthy of GM-status.

    We should all keep in mind that there do not appear to be any coaches on the market who the franchise should go chasing after willy nilly. I don’t think there’s a Belichick, a Harbaugh or an Arians on the market this year.


    As I said before Adam, I fluctuate on Tannehill sometimes. I certainly wish that it was a foregone conclusion Miami’s QB was great and that after 3.5 seasons he was flashing some real play-making ability. The truth is he’s had a down year during which he’s played only 2 outstanding games (Jacksonville & Houston) and he may just be too inconsistent to be a real answer.

    The only thing I know is that the offensive line has been shaky, the coaching suspect, the running game often a non-factor, the play-calling inconsistent or inappropriate and yet Tannehill has looked solid at times. Knowing he’s a raw prospect, I think he deserves 2016 to fight for his job.

    That’s my take.
     
    Bumrush, resnor and Stitches like this.
  18. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    Also, for the record Adam, I would not have signed Tannehill to that extension last year. That was as much of a surprise to me as it was to everyone else and it felt weird. I totally agree. I knew the questions would come of "is he really worth that?!"

    To be honest, the Dolphins are now sort of latched to Tannehill for the short term. To me, that's a bit of a mistake in terms of managing your talent. Who knows though, maybe the team looked ahead and didn't want to have to worry about the QB, the RB, the pass rusher and a WR in the same year.

    They may have just been trying to be proactive on that one.


    I would also not have signed Suh. I have tried to be as big a proponent as I can be of the team avoiding these ridiculous contracts through which they overextend themselves for a single player. To me, doing that with Suh and having no ability to either bring in the right DC or get Coyle the talent he needed is as frustrating as this whole QB thing right now.
     
  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Hey. I didn't make another thread. There is some smoke out there.

    Ryan Tannehill is the Dolphins' $96 million mystery
    http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolph...-tannehill-is-the-dolphins-96-million-mystery
    :pointlol:
     
    Bpk and resnor like this.
  20. Shane Falco

    Shane Falco Banned

    916
    468
    0
    Nov 22, 2015
  21. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

    11,375
    11,392
    113
    Sep 28, 2015
    How about we all sit around this camp fire, rejoice...hold hands and watch this team kick some *** on MNF.


    ....Who's with me?
     
  22. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Wooooooo!!!!!!! Yes Sir indeed!!!!!
     
    Fin-O likes this.
  23. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    :lol: I'll refrain. Game time!!
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    You better wash yours first.

    I think we need more of this, though. I know I tend to forget, we probably all do, that we're all (well, most of us, anyway) Dolphins fans. We all want the same thing: to win. Except maybe LB. No one is sure what he wants.


    LOL. J/K


    Maybe.
     
    Finster and Sceeto like this.
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    This game won't change my opinion of Tannehill.

    I'm also not so sure we are a good enough team top to bottom to feel confident in any game.
     
  26. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    I hear ya' dude!!! Totally agree. In the end, we are all Phin fans. Have a great game bro.
     
    resnor likes this.
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,329
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    You too, man!

    What are the chances the Game Thread stays civil??
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  28. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Unfortunately...zero. :pointlol:
     
    resnor likes this.
  29. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Agree. This team is a dumpster fire. I expect a loss but will be pleasantly surprised if we win.
     
  30. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    It won't be zero if Tannehill lights it up we will all be happy.
     
  31. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

    29,473
    34,332
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Two terrible drops IMHO. Tannehill is doing his part tonight.
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Yeah Tanny is playing well no complaints.
     
  33. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    52,652
    25,565
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    Brice came to play today, looks like.
     
  34. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    Well.. Tannehill played well this game. He definitely showed improvement in the mental side of the game (audibles, even gave himself some extra time in the pocket). Question is whether this is just a flash in the pan or a real improvement because he's not being shackled by Lazor. I guess we'll see in the next few games.

    Anyway, other than one huge miss (happens to everyone), Tannehill played more than good enough to win. The loss was in any case good for draft position.
     
  35. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    52,652
    25,565
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    This Tannehill guy needs to catch it when it hits him in the hands.
     
  36. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    Compared to the last 3-4 weeks, Tannehill took gigantic strides this evening. Good pocket awareness, challenged the defenses vertically...it's a shame he had 4 or 5 possible TD passed dropped. A few were his fault (by a hair...all were so darn close), most weren't....but it was great to see in any case. A lot of drops too....Sims, Cameron, etc.

    My ONLY complaint about him tonight (well, actually two complaints in one) was that when he was pressured and scrambled to extend the play, he locked on to Landry and just waited for him to make a move. He had a few downs where he could have ran a country mile, plus Parker was wide open in the endzone on that last Landry drop (the one that hit the defender's helmet mid-air and changed it's trajectory). Not Tannehill's fault on the misses....they were good 50/50 throws. But he needs to spread the ball around a little more in those situations.

    But overall, it was a massive step in the right direction. If we would have continued to run Miller in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, we would have had this one I think.
     
    Piston Honda likes this.
  37. finfaninilinois

    finfaninilinois Active Member

    543
    82
    28
    Nov 29, 2009

    Where were these so called 4 or 5 td drops at?????? I don't remember any
     
  38. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

    2,148
    1,398
    113
    May 3, 2010
    I recall about that many interceptions being dropped.

    I also recall Williams behind the defense for a TD that was missed and Landry at the end of the game, but I have come to expect very little when it is clutch time. That one only missed by about 5 yards.
     
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    - Third series....one to Simms (with nobody behind him, defenders colliding), then the very next play (missed Williams by inches). Three plays later, same drive, Cameron dropped a deep throw.

    - Landry dropped two within the five yard line....maybe a TD/maybe not

    - Umm...oh. Cameron let a deep one fall through his hands....it was the play he swore it was PI (but it was just great coverage). That was about a 25 yard throw to inside the 10 yard line.

    - Stills got a 50/50 throw that wasn't catchable (I didn't count this one....Stills was playing defender there at the goal line).

    Still, that's six deep throws, plus the actual TD catch...which is a lot more aggressive than we have been.
     
  40. finfaninilinois

    finfaninilinois Active Member

    543
    82
    28
    Nov 29, 2009

    the only one of those that would have probably been td was Williams and tanny MISSED him not a drop

    I'd rather have Blake bortles at this point.
     

Share This Page