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what is really wrong with RT17?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dullfandan, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    So he's significantly worse this year at 3rd down conversions and in the red zone.

    So... he's bad at moving the chains and getting close TDs...

    Ummm... Aren't those the most important things for QBs?


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  2. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I'm predicting Loss (love the nickname) will continue his tradition of carrying over an unwanted somebody and never cleaning house.


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  3. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Makes no difference to me whether he is a Tannehill guy or not. I was commenting on that post. For example, he states:

    Yet:

    • 5 of the top 7 QBs in QB rating are NOT 1st round picks...6 of the top 10, 9 of the top 16 and 10 of the 20 QBs rated ahead of Tannehill are NOT 1st round QBs.

    • If the playoffs started this week: 5 of the 6 AFC teams would be starting a QB NOT drafted in the 1st round. 3 of the 6 NFC teams would be starting a QB NOT drafted in the 1st round = 67% of the starting QBs in the playoffs would NOT be 1st round picks.

    And then there is all this stuff trying to make Tannehill look good based on QB rating:

    Reality = Tannehill has been in the league 4 years and has finished 28th, 22nd, 14th and is now 21st in QB rating.

    How that was selectively filtered it makes it look like Tannehill has been one of the best QB in the league...:lol: for not being a Tannehill guy that post was sure constructed in a way making him look like one.
     
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  4. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Other than winning games and in particular doing so in pressure situations when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter/OT I think those things are right up there.
     
  5. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    We're not trading him this offseason so, oh well.
     
  6. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right, but how are you so sure?

    If Stephen Loss (thanks IdrA) falls head over heels in love with some HC who doesn't want to inherit Tannehill, he's gone. It's not like some other team won't take on his salary and trade a mid round pick for him.


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  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah its been four years, no playoffs, not even close, the whole train to stay in the pocket and not turn it over was ALWAYS the wrong way to develop this qb..
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He lacks skill/feel on touch throws, been that way...it shows you how sorry lazor was, yeah lets call the worst play in the qbs arsenal...
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I blame lazor because he didn't exploit the talents the qb does have in the gameplan..you could see it last year.
     
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  10. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Because we're not going to take the $10M accelerated cap hit that comes with trading him this offseason, and he hasn't shown enough deviation since being given the contract for the same people that gave it to him to decide to move on from him.
     
  12. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see. I've advocated keeping him until next season anyway. Good info.


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  13. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    just because the OC is gone doesn't mean we have a magic new playbook. We still have the ****ty playbook to pick plays from.
     
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  14. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Don't be so sure. The Browns could totally be interested in Tannehell lol. Wouldn't be surprised if the 49ers were interested as well. And maybe some other teams. It all depends on if the Dolphins are offering him if it's likely or not to happen. The Dolphins might not want to trade him (because they have a history of making bad decisions over and over again)

    If they are interested in trading him we won't hear it until the offseason.
     
  15. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    It's not out of the realm of possibility, but there are bad things on both sides of a trade, for Miami Tanne will cost around 10 mil next year if he's on the team... or even if he isn't, for the potential trade partner, his salary skyrockets next year, so it may just a 1 year rental.

    So the compensation may not be more than a mid round pick, but if they hire a HC that is adamant about not going with Tanne then the compensation would be much better than keeping him on the bench for a year and then cutting him.
     
  16. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    this is a great post and sums up the Tannehill mystery. Still can't get my mind off the San Diego game last year when we wacked San Diego 37-0. Tannehill had the chains taken off and I truely believe that is the type of QB he has the ability to be with the right coaching staff that designs the plays to his and other players strengths.

    If Lazor was responsible for the play book(not sure) Then firing him is the best thing we have done in a long time. I say that with caution because there is still a lot of speculation as to who is/was responsible for what.

    I am head coach of a 7th grade football team in Georgia and the plays I have designed have more options built into them then the plays I've seen here.....................that says a lot

    Shocking at this level of play
     
  17. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    And herein lies the problem: basing projection off the exception rather than the rule (not to mention a classic west-to-east situation where the road team flops uncharacteristically hard across the board). Games like that one are rare for this QB, and ultimately, every year, he ends up near the middle of the pack in terms of efficiency and overall rating...and we fold with the playoffs on the line Clinging to a few outliers just isn't good management, imo.

    The Bill Lazor crucifixion still confuses me a little. The Sherman/Tannehill offense finished 26th and 27th in the League in scoring. In Lazor's first year we finished 11th (granted, some big games came in garbage time of the season after elimination). Short memories.
     
  18. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Guys, we would take a 10M cap hit that we can not afford just to get rid of him. He is going to get another year....until then be prepared for many more excuses and apologizing for bad play assuming he keeps up this play.
     
  19. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I waiver but by and large I'm supportive of the Dolphins keeping Tannehill. We're talking about a guy whose raw production is too good to ignore. I can't think of many NFL teams that would dump a young, developing QB who has shown he's good for 4,000 yards, 25 or more touchdowns and fewer than 15 interceptions per season, particularly when he's doing that on a team without strong leadership. The fact is Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Matt Ryan and most other young QBs struggled early in their career too yet they all became franchise QBs. In a future without Brees, Brady and Manning (who have 15, 16 and 18 years experience respectively), there aren't going to be a lot of dominant passers. The best that's come out of the draft since those guys is unquestionably Aaron Rodgers. There are definitely questions about most everyone else though. Rivers, Wilson, Luck...the majority all need help.

    Neither Rivers nor Wilson can carry a team on their backs. We've seen that. Someone like Roethlisberger is great now, but that wasn't always the case. Roethlisberger in his first 5 seasons average 3,300 yards, 22 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. People want to point out his passer rating which was in the 90s but he clearly wasn't carrying his team, who of course had that famously great defense that ranked right at the top. Rivers, who I think is a fantastic QB, sat for two years and gained valuable experience watching Drew Brees. When Rivers took over he averaged 3,500 yards, 26 touchdowns and 12 interceptions in his first 3 years on the job. That's solid, but again, not so far ahead of what Tannehill's done the last couple years that I'd say it's a problem. Plus, Tannehill had way less experience and was thrust into the starting role relatively early.

    Fans are cynical. I get it. Fans always want off-season fireworks. I understand. But by and large, I say no. I think the team has it's QB and he's under contract so me, I'm at peace with it. Develop him and win as much as you can in the meantime with the goal of making Ryan one of the NFL's better QBs by the time he's a 6-7 year veteran.
     
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  20. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I am not so sure Philbin not being around wasn't a huge factor in Game planning and play calling.

    One could easily explain away the increase in Lazor having free reign initially and then Philbin reeling him in so to speak. Not sure how much input Philbin had in plays available. We can only speculate. I do know Philbin was conservative, so maybe he took plays out of the play book due to their evaluation of Tannehill. I would hate to think Philbin reeled him in because he was afraid he was going to loose his job if Lazor showed him up, but into days political environment and the political turmoil we were breifly exposed to inside the organization I wouldn't put it past him.

    I still believe Philbin had a ton to do with Ireland being fired - after all if your afraid the person who had all the power wasn't so up on you and you thought he ultimately was going to fire you ------well why not take him out first.

    self preservation is as old as Human Kind
     
  21. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You’re right but consider reality such as it is. Many of those players have had the chance to learn, grow and turn the corner.

    Dalton (5 yrs)
    Palmer (13 yrs)
    Wilson (4 yrs)
    Taylor (5 yrs)
    Brady (16 yrs)
    Roethlisberger (12 yrs)
    Carr (2 yrs)

    Those guys average 8 years of experience which is double what Tannehill has. I don’t think it’s quite fair to compare Carson Palmer, Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger to Ryan Tannehill without acknowledging the gap. I’m happy to accept the greatness of Dalton, Wilson, Taylor and Carr. Let's look at those 4:

    Up until this year the consensus around here was the Dalton was nothing special. What would things be like in Cincinnati if that team lost faith in their QB after year 4? ;) Over his first four seasons Dalton averaged a passer rating of 85 with a high of 89. His average YPA during that time was 7.0. He averaged 24.8 touchdowns and 16.5 interceptions. He was good for a prospect and the patience the team showed is now paying off. Experience matters. Over the last couple seasons Ryan Tannehill has more or less given you the same production. Considering he got there without the college experience Dalton had and without the organizational stability the Bengals have, it might be more impressive, I don't know?

    Taylor has 5 years of hanging around the NFL to his credit. Why is his rating so high? Well, I’d say QBs who are fast enough to outrun linebackers and who are told to do so by their OCs tend to prosper early in their careers: Wilson 100.0, RGIII 102.4, Kaepernick 98.3, Mariota 95.1, Taylor 104.3. It’s not a coincidence. Scrambling definitely helps produce astoundingly high passer ratings early on if it’s used as a steady offensive feature. Griffin and Kaepernick both turned out to be highly over-rated prospects. I suspect both Mariota and Taylor will see their numbers come down to Earth as well. Interestingly Cam Newton never joined the trend. I'm not sure why but he (like Dalton) actually seems to have matured as a player in year 5. Maybe Tannehill should be running the ball more?

    Derek Carr is in his 2nd season so I don't want to rain on the kid's parade or come off cynical. I like him a lot as a prospect right now and I'm very impressed with what he's doing. By and large he's done an excellent job. However, he's replicating what Matthew Stafford did in 2011. Stafford had a high number of attempts, a solid YPA, a shockingly low number of interceptions and a ton of yardage. Carr is basically all of those things right now. He's on pace for 4,300 yards and not 5,000 like Stafford did and he won't touch Staffords 41 touchdowns either. In fact, he'll be doing well just to get to 30, but he's been good. However, he’s playing a very risky brand of football that for now is paying off with a lot of big plays down the field and the lack of interceptions is upping his passer rating. Time will tell if he sustains that (Stafford didn't for example) but keep in mind Carr's jump in passer rating from last year to this year is on par with Peyton Manning’s jump from year 1 to year 2. Last year Carr was at 76. Is his 97 a sign of genius or is he just a bit lucky? Let's be honest here. Like many people, I doubt Carr sustains his excellence.

    As for Russell Wilson, he’s looking a lot like Roethlisberger did early in his career. Back then, it was Roethlisberger who had the league’s best defense and who was handing it off quite a bit. Both QBs have an ability to extend plays and get chunk yardage which leads to very high YPA numbers without having a truly dominant passing offense. The lack of attempts and the the fact the defenses are keying on the run helps with the interceptions and you wind up with a higher-than-expected passer rating. The truth is, Russell Wilson is pretty damn good though, much like Roethlisberger. Will Russell Wilson turn into a guy who one day leads a dominant passing attack the way Big Ben has? Eh, I don't know. That's hard to do. We saw Matt Ryan win a lot early but when the team transitioned to a passing offense with him at the helm the wins went away. Granted that was much to do with the defense but neverthless, winning is hard when it becomes the QB's responsibility and that defense you used to be able to lean on goes away. Flacco is another example. He's had ratings of 73 and 83 in the last three seasons. That's disappointing for a big-money guy who the team was hoping they could rely on as it rebuilt for the next Super Bowl run. Looks like Flacco ain't exactly up to the task of carrying the team.


    If you ask me, people simply under-value experience and they over-rate the other QBs that are out there.
     
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  22. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Good points in the first paragraph.

    Second paragraph, Sherman had an extremely raw Tannehill with a bad group of WRs headlined by Hartline and Bess. Our top TE was Fasano. Bush was the lead running back ahead of Miller IIRC.

    Lazor's first year was when Chip Kelly's offense was still relevant. It's been figured out, it's struggling in MIA and PHI, it helped Lazor get fired, and it's likely to get Chip fired unless his team somehow wins the NFC Least division.


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  23. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You compared stats across different eras. Can't compare Rivers and Roethlisberger back then to Tannehill today.

    We can talk all we want about Tannehill's raw production but his stats are inflated because of the sheer amount of passing attempts he's made. Notice that Big Ben and Rivers pretty much matched Tannehill's TDs and INTs in less yards.


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  24. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    My goodness, what on earth are you talking about? Rhetorical, no need to answer.

    Do you have any idea how successful the QBs you listed were in their first 4 years? Crazy

    Dalton has now led Cincinnati to 5 playoff appearances in 5 seasons...that equates to 5 more than Tannehill has led Miami to.
    Palmer led Cincy to the playoffs in his 2nd year.
    Wilson has led Seattle to a Super Bowl victory, another Super Bowl appearance and to the playoffs all 3 years.
    Roethlisberger led the Steelers to a Super Bowl victory in his second year.
    Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls in his first 4 years starting.
    Carr has shown significant improvement in year 2 and is playing at a "much" higher level than Tannehill every has.

    And you think these players were given a chance to grow and turn the corner? WTF

    And if you think after watching Mariota (assuming you even have) that he is just a running QB then it tells me you have absolutely no clue what you are looking at watching a QB and understanding their skill set.

    Your brain and my brain operate on different levels, for sure...:lol:
     
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  25. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Well....you just made that argument your *****.
     
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  26. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    The thing is, it's 10 mil whether he's here or not, or sitting on the bench, if, and granted that's a big if, but if the new HC is going in another direction regardless, it would make sense to trade him so at least to get something for him, instead of him sitting on the bench for a year and getting nothing in return (that is going on the if a new coach theory).
     
  27. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I agree, experience does matter, but talented players with experience is what that is, experience in and of itself is not what creates good QBs, or Chad Henne would be tearing it up, and a thousand other veteran back ups.

    Simply giving Tanne more time is in no way any guarantee that he will be successful, if that's what you were driving at.
     
  28. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with your logic but I see the situation a bit differently. When we look at QBs like Chad Henne we see physical problems with how they play. Henne was highly inaccurate and was woefully inept when it came to touch passes. We agree on this, right, haha? :) Inaccuracy leads to turnovers and that was what killed Chad Henne. He certainly had the arm strength, but he couldn't play the position reliably and so ultimately he hit a wall and was kicked out. I support that and I understand why he's a backup today. As I recall he would be good for at least 1 interception per game. You really can't win consistently when your QB is turning it over at such a high rate. FOr the record, the only thing that bothers me with Tannehill are the interceptions. His interception percentage last year ranked 7th in the league. That's where he needs to be. Look at Alex Smith last year who had an incredible season. His interception percentage was shockingly low. Tannehill had a great season with nearly 50 attempts between interceptions while Smith was approaching 80. That's nut. Rodgers was over 100 of course because he's superhuman but with someone like Smith or Tannehill, the interceptions have to stay low. This year, Tannehill's back up a little bit. He's throw an interception every 35-40 passes which is solid but unspectacular. In other words, he's fallen back to being average in that category and so his 93 rating is down to 88.

    While Tannehill is not great, he's a huge improvement over Henne. That's the point. Tannehill has much more touch and accuracy while still having the arm strength to push it downfield. What that tells me is that his development is a mental thing. Okay, unless you're dealing with someone who's got some handicap, mental things improve. Something like decision making for example is a function of experience (predicting where the receivers are vs the defenders).

    Again, he may not be royalty in the future, but the things we're talking about developing in Tannehill are mental and therefore (at least in my opinion) there's reason to believe he'll develop on a consistent basis.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he doesn't have that much more touch than henne..I would categorize ryans touch as below average.
     
  30. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe the Dolphins haven't been a Play-off team because they aren't very good?

    Roethlisberger had a running game and the #1 defense. Wilson? Same thing. Inevitably there are QBs on those otherwise dominant teams who are carried to success. Big Ben (through experience) has turned himself into a great passer, good enough to be the focal point of the team now. Will that happen for Wilson? We can't say.

    Dalton and Palmer having a slightly better record and therefore making the Play-offs is great but their teams were better, too. I would say more than anything the coaching was better. You're talking a single team that has the 2nd-longest tenured HC in the league. That stability is a sign of competence and it means a lot.

    Carr I addressed above. Time will tell. As I said, we've seen relatively average QBs blow up when the circumstances are right.

    Brady, hey, it's Tom Brady. There are 1000 reasons the Patriots won the Super Bowl early that aren't QB-related but at the end of the day, he's the greatest QB in the history of the game. I don't exactly need Tannehill to be that.







    Also, I wanted to clarify something about drafting QBs early. Drafting QBs these days means drafting highly. Since 2004 the position of QB has been elevated to the point that anyone with any semblance of ability is taken highly in the draft.

    Since 2004 there have been 148 QBs taken in the draft.

    33 have been 1st rounders. Of that bunch the hit rate is about 50%. The busts have been numerous and they have been epic.

    Eli Manning
    Philip Rivers
    Ben Roethlisberger

    JP Losman
    Alex Smith
    Aaron Rodgers

    Jason Campbell
    Vince Young
    Matt Leinart
    Jay Cutler
    Jamarcus Russell
    Brady Quinn
    Matt Ryan
    Joe Flacco
    Matthew Stafford

    Mark Sanchez
    Josh Freeman
    Sam Bradford
    Tim Tebow
    Cam Newton
    Jake Locker
    Blaine Gabbert
    Christian Ponder
    Ryan Tannehill
    Andrew Luck
    Brandon Weeden
    Robert Griffin
    EJ Manuel
    Blake Bortles
    Johnny Manziel
    Teddy Bridgewater
    Marcus Mariota
    Jameis Winston


    Again, Tannehill ranks 11th with a passer rating that is above the average.

    The truth is that in the modern era, good QBs don't sit out there on the market very long. By the time you get to the 2nd round almost all the meat is off the bone. The vast majority of 2nd round picks have washed out:

    http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/40340/60/2nd-round-qb-success-rate

    Andy Dalton
    Colin Kaepernick
    Jimmy Clausen
    Pat White
    Brian Brohm
    Chad Henne
    Kevin Kolb
    John Beck
    Drew Stanton
    Kellen Clemons
    Tarvaris Jackson
    Brock Osweiler
    Geno Smith
    Derek Carr
    Jimmy Garrapolo


    So far, 2 of 15 have been hits. So if the Dolphins draft in the 1st round they'll do it knowing the batting average is .500 (which is already bad). If they wait until the 2nd round that drops to a ridiculously low hit rate of 13%.

    What about the 100 guys taken after the 1st and 2nd rounds?

    Well, there are 3 names: Russell Wilson, Matt Schaub and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

    So first of all you're talking about a hit rate of 3% if you draft a "developmental prospect" late in the draft. It's obvious if we look at Schuab and Fitzpatrick that they needed experience. Schaub started playing well in his 5th season. Fitzpatrick didn't start playing well until his 9th season! Russell Wilson is on this list as a technicality. He was taken literally 3 picks into the 3rd round. Still, if we include him, he's the anomaly. He's the 1%.

    Are those the kind of odds that make you comfortable? They don't make me feel comfortable, I can tell you that.




    Whether we're talking about hit rates of 50%, 13% or 3%, it stands to reason that you better have a really good case for why you're drafting a QB if you're going to do it. I'm not saying you're wrong or that I don't see where you're coming from Adam. I do. I respect what all those other QBs are doing but people talk about the draft as though it's this beautiful place where dreams come true for fans. That's obviously not the case. It's still really hard to draft QBs and when you have a guy who's producing at a decent clip, it's better to give that guy a chance to develop I think.
     
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  31. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Nothing is wrong with him, he's just not the player you all hyped him up to be. He doesn't have the leadership, killer instinct, nor the mental part of the game to be the face of this franchise. He's the 5th best player on our offense behind Pouncey, Albert, Landry, and Miller, and some might even say Matthews and Parker are better football players.
     
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  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    My friend, you are SOOOO wrong by this evaluation. Because the 2014 and 2015 versions of Tannehill are two different players.

    The 2014 Tannehill was still throwing his favorite pass often (the sideline 10-15 yard rocket) and moving the chains. He was throwing intermediate passes over the middle as well...not a lot...but enough to keep the linebackers honest. All successful quarterbacks make these throws because when you're using the entire field, the defenses can't cheat.

    This season, I only remember two of those typical out-routes thrown...one was to Landry (which he cut back inside and went for a TD) and the other was last week. And when defenses see that, they stay at home in the middle of the field. We almost never connect on intermediate routes as well, which brings the safeties closer to the LOS. So here's Tannehill, throwing screens and short passes over and over again, which the defense is just sitting back on and waiting for. It is so much easier to read Tannehill in 2015 than it was last season....because you often have 8-9 players camping those short routes. In fact, defenses have basically given us the deep ball....we have 1:1 coverage just about on every down. That's how both Landry and Parker were both open for that TD last week.

    But here's the thing, if Tannehill doesn't challenge the defenses more in intermediate and deep routes, they have no reason to respect him and they're playing in a much smaller box....so the interceptions are going to increase. There's no way around that. And honestly, I'd much rather see him have a two-pick game with us trying to challenge the field vertically....aren't we tired of stat lines like 24-31, 284 yards, 1 TD/0 INT....when we lose the game by 17? Because that's what we get in a dink offense where we can't move the ball. Great stats that don't give us a chance to win the game.

    The bigger question here is why we turned Tannehill into Chad Pennington by design- do the coaches not have enough faith in him to do more? Or is Tannehill just taking the check downs far too often on his own? Neither paints a pretty picture for the season, but the answer will tell us if he has a future in the league or not.
     
  33. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    There should be a few things that bothers any Dolphins fan about Tannehill. It's not just the interceptions. If we're just talking stats, his 3rd down conversion rate, red zone TD rate (both this season), and YPA over his career (sorry cbrad, but the Tennessee and Houston games are outliers because of all that YAC).


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  34. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    There certainly is merit to what your saying, I do believe there is a possibility that Tanne does "get it" down the road, the huge stumbling block in this equation however is that you don't pay a player 20 mil per waiting for him to get it, and there are some flaws in his game that are disconcerting, like lack of leadership, field vision and awareness, and the biggest imo, lack of killer instinct/nerves, and these are not his only issues, but these stand out as issues that one wonders if he can ever overcome.

    Also what are the odds, when talking about these QBs who got it down the road, like Smith in his 6th season or Fitz in his 9th, if a QB doesn't seem to have gotten it in his 1st 4 years, what are the odds he will get it, I think it's safe to say that those odds are in the small single digits, so those aren't good odds to bet on either.

    If Tanne was making 6-7 mil per, you would hear a lot less complaining from me, my biggest problem with Tanne is the franchise money, a similar problem was with Hartline, I wasn't a huge Hartline fan, but when they signed him to a 6 mil per contract then I complained a lot, because that was twice what he was worth, because the NFL hinges on 2 things, acquiring talent and money management, you can't pay players 2 or 3 times what they're worth and be successful.
     
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  35. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I wouldn't complain at all if Tannehill was paid around $10 million per season.


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  36. Dolphins1Beatles

    Dolphins1Beatles Ziggy Stardust

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    Same as every other Dolphins QB since Marino.

    Hasn't shown ability to perform well consistently. Hasn't stepped up often enough in the biggest games - divisional games, late season games with playoff implications, primetime games. Needs a highly exceptional team around him - can't take mediocre players and help them improve their stats by throwing it with ease. Example: Ted Ginn Jr having a standout year with probable MVP Cam Newton. Up to 8 Touchdowns and over 600 yards.

    I'd hoped he would have a breakout stretch, but it has yet to happen. He needs a lot more help around him than the top QB's in the league. But I'm not sure he'd even be in the 2nd level of QB's right now. Like a Ryan Fitzpatrick...who is outperforming Tannehill.
     
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  37. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    This. He's not Tom Brady, but he's not Jay Fielder, Trent Greent, Gus Ferrortte, Daunte Culpepper, Joey Harrington, Brian Griese, John Beck, Sage Rosenfels, AJ Feeley, Cleo Lemon, Chad Pennington, or Chad Henne either.

    He's not a world beater, but he can run an offense better than anyone since we lost Marino. For the first time in as long as I can remember our QB is not the limiting factor in our offense. It's coaching IMO, and until it's proven that he can't work under a real HC then I'll continue to strums for him.



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  38. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Really, he can run the offense better than anyone since Marino and is not limiting our offense?

    Miami is 31st in 3rd down conversions at 28%. Not to be outdone on 4th down conversions they are 31st at 26.7%

    Under Tannehill as a starter:

    Miami has scored 20 points or less 33 times in Tannehill's 60 starts = 55% of games

    Miami has scored 20 points or less in 18 of the last 30 games = 60%

    Miami has scored 20 points or less in 14 of the last 20 games = 70%

    Miami has scored 20 points or less in 10 of the 12 games this year = 83.3%

    If you were referring to Tannehill can run this offense into the ground as well as any QB we've had since Marino and it is getting worse I am in complete agreement.
     
  39. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with this statement. Of course, as a fan I think I can out-salary cap the FO, but those opinions are reserved for the off-season.

    During the season, I have yet to be watching a game where Miami's offense is getting shut down and I think that is okay b/c our QB is only making $1 mil a year, $10 mil a year or $20 mil a year. If the QB is below-average and can't produce I don't see in reason to keep him as starter regardless of what the market dictates.
     
  40. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    My reasoning is the QB can look much better with money allocated to other positions. Look at Fitzpatrick and Hoyer. If Tannehill were paid much less but had a stacked team around him, he'd look much better.


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