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Questions still remain at QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-O, Nov 26, 2015.

  1. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I think coaches are a big problem for sure, but why should that be so different in say the 2-minute or 4-minute offense than the rest of the game? They don't maximize his ability during most of the game, so having such bad stats when the team is down late in the 4th I think says more about Tannehill than the coaches per se.

    And there's non-stat stuff that I think supports that. Don't you agree that his decision-making is slow? How many times during the 2-minute offense does he take way too long to get the next play off? And aren't you somewhat disturbed by what seems like his lack of urgency/fire? People behave differently depending on motivation, and Brady just looks like the type of guy where he can't stand losing while Tannehill seems much more OK with it. It changes how you play.

    So no, I think the relative difference we're seeing in clutch stats vs. non-clutch stats says more about Tannehill than the coaches (because the coaches don't help much in both situations).
     
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  2. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    really? That line didnt play all that great. Romo was getting hit all game. And that run game...
     
  3. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    Chad Henne was the biggest choke artist in college....you serious"? lol

    Highlight reels make everyone look good. Go watch random games of his.
     
  4. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Ive watched many of his games, my point waa about his mentality in college as opposed to the pro's. If he was clutch or not has no merit on that.


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  5. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    I get that. But you cant have your QB gunslinging it like that when more often than not he throws killer Ints. I'm not sure Hennes career would have been any different if they didnt do that buzzer at 3 seconds during practice and force him into more of a game manager. Thats more on Henne being Henne though. Now Tannehill, I can see being much better under a more aggressive mindset and more freedom in an offense.
     
  6. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    They played against the Panthers and were forced to throw often due to an early deficit. What did you expect to happen?


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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Couple of things....

    1. Don't need your help.

    2. While I appreciate that you're "softening" your stance by barely blaming the oline while mostly blaming Tannehill, I wonder why you're not "helping" the posters who are blaming it all on Tannehill.

    3. Between Tannehill and the oline, who is failing at their job to a higher degree in your estimation?
     
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  8. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    1. Yes, you do.
    2. Ive yet to see a post that say's "its ALL Tannehill's fault" should I make things up like......
    3. The OL. They are terrible, Ryan isn't terrible he is just a big furry ball of average.
     
  9. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    Oh I totally thought that would happen. Tony Romo had an awful game. But that line wasnt much better.

    Even before they were out of it, they were averaging something like 2 yards a carry.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah, no.
    Step 1: Go to Amazon.com
    Step 2: Buy this:
    [​IMG]
    Step 3: Come back to all these Tannehill threads and use your new found skills.

    Yet you and everyone spend your time *****ing about Tannehill. Sane people focus on the biggest problem first. This basically makes you guys like the person in the monster movie that gets caught and killed because they stopped to put on shoes before they ran away from the werewolf.

    For all any of you know, Tannehill will be playing at an above average level consistently with competent oline play. Can I prove it? No. I do have a string of games to strongly support that however. What precisely does anyone have to show he won't play better with competent oline play?
     
  11. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    How many times could they have possibly run the ball before Romo got pick sixed?

    Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see it that way.


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  12. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    So start a damn OL thread and post all your issues there....the QB is the focal point in the NFL fair or unfair they get too much credit and too much blame.

    And why don't you show me a post that says its all Ryans fault? You and your peeps get pissed for people being critical of a QB who has been having a bad season and looks to have hit a wall in his development which spells bad news for Dolphins fans.

    These are Tannehill threads, his issues SHOULD be discussed.
     
  13. Buckeyetroop

    Buckeyetroop Active Member

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    The article nailed it and I'll take Bob G's analysis over anyone here in a heartbeat. This fantasy football generation and stat driven mentality can't watch a game and determine who is a good player and who isn't. They just run to the stats and make them fit an argument.
     
  14. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    You're assuming that all QB's that are playing at an above average level consistently have competent oline play. I've seen many QB's avoid sacks and make plays when the pocket collapses, and more often than not have seen Tannehill either hold the ball for too long or not step away from the pressure and make something out of nothing.

    Most QB's in this league, including bottom of the barrell garbage like Ryan Fitzpatrick can play above mediocre with consistent line play. The great QB's elevate their game when situations are less than ideal.

    Obviously there will be exceptions to the rule on a game by game basis, but after 3+ years and another season down the drain, it's becoming clear that Ryan doesn't have the ability to overcome less than ideal line play.

    Whether or not he develops that instinct is yet to be determined but I'm not holding my breath.

    Have you thought about the possibility that Ryan himself makes our OL looks worse than it actually is? For every bull rush to the QB there is a coverage sack where he holds on to the ball for too long, or pressure that he could have stepped away from if he was more instinctual in the pocket.

    Doesn't really matter anyways, this season is pretty much over. We are a bad football from top to bottom.
     
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  15. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    This board would be up in arms if we abandoned the run being down 7. And I didnt mention attempts. McFadden's average was awful.

    10 carries, 11 yards... Sure sounds like an oline playing well. >.>
     
  16. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I forgot who, I think it was Finster, showed that even with the excellent Texas A&M offensive line, he wasn't good even by college standards. He's just not a natural QB.

    That was about 4 years ago but it's the only evidence that exists. What are the string of games to strongly support your claim? It'd be awfully hard to prove.

    You'd need to break down the play by play to make sure you're not taking into account YAC like those two wins under Campbell, lucky plays like the TD to Landry that bounced off a defender's head, etc. You'd need to figure out how much time he was allowed to throw, if his scrambling had anything to do with it, the level of competition, etc.


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  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I never made that assumption, but thanks for playing.
     
  18. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I agree. Especially with an OL like that. Idk man, I might take a look at the tape again. I will admit I was drunk from about 5 until I fell asleep [emoji23]


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  19. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Of course, you are not taking a position on anything tangible. Circular arguments that can't be "proven" until you've determined that we have "competent line play"

    We have a Pro Bowl Center, a Pro Bowl Left Tackle and Billy Turner who has been trending upwards weekly. The team also invested a first round pick in a RT that has played a majority of the season.

    When will you determine that we have "competent line play?" What criteria will you use? If you determine that we have "competent line play" and Ryan continues to struggle, what timeframe will you give him to adjust to the competent line play? A year? Two years?

    Also, what is competent line play? I've watched a majority of the games in the NFL this year and a lot of teams have issues with their OL with significantly less resources applied to OL and somehow they get better production by their offense. The Miami Dolphins are tied for third in the NFL at yards per carry. I guess for something tangible, you know like a running game and yards per attempt, they aren't as bad as you paint them to be. Or is Lamar Miller somehow able to overcome being a part of such a horrible and terrifying offensive line?
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The oline affects his play. Perfectly valid to discuss it here.

    Someone brought up a post about why Tannehill does X in Y situations. The answer is poor play by the oline. Perfectly valid discussion.

    As for your bs about "no one is blaming only Tannehill" crap...read these:

    Please tell me where they blame of any percentage to anyone other Tannehill? These are just the first two examples of the literally hundreds on this site btw.

    Now before you start Fin-O'ing all over the place, you claim I'm not blaming Tannehill for anything because I didn't explicitly say he's doing anything wrong. So if that is true, then these examples are valid illustrations of my claim, because they don't explicitly say anyone else is too blame.

    This is called a pickle. You are in one.
     
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  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Blah, blah, blah, bull ****, bull ****, bull ****.

    Has the oline been competent, yes or no?

    And btw, to your last post to me and this one:
    That's from this thread. I think it clearly illustrates I don't blame it all on the oline (nor do I assume that Tannehill is the only QB with a bad oline) but it also lays out my "non tangible" stance.
     
  22. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    4.9 yards per carry, 3rd in the NFL.

    In the running game, the stats (and facts) show that they can run block.

    On that measure alone they are competent.

    Is the NE line competent? You know the group of castoffs and practice squad players that somehow are a part of a team that is 10-0?
     
  23. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    They are talking Tannehill stats in a Tannehill thread....I guess you not understanding why doesn't shock me.

    You have fought for this Qb, and its not looking good. Admit that and avoid grasping for straws.
     
  24. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Crap olines and crap OC's are byproduct of crap QB's too. For all you know our golden boy Lazor could have been a superstar coach in this league with the right coaching staff and QB in place.
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I see. This is now you're new rule.

    Ok, I'll hold you to it going forward. I hope you're prepared to be held to the literal thread title going forward.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes, this is the "chicken or the egg" situation that you're implying it is.

    Sigh.
     
  27. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    You're a weird guy Ace..
     
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  28. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    This is where I think there is a disconnect between stats and reality. Miller makes amazing gains from his own effort, which inflates that ypc. A lot of our first and second downs involve 0-2 yard gains, which then puts us in ****ty third down situations. This blame is on the line to be honest. Stats lie, and lie well.
     
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  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    hahahahahahahaha

    You're really using running stats to illustrate an oline is competent in pass blocking?
     
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  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I love how every anti-Tannehill poster likes to use Albert as a reason that our oline is fine.


    Except ALBERT has singlehandedly been THE BIGGEST PROBLEM with our line. Because he can't stay healthy, we begin shuffling our garbage in.
     
  31. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Why don't you answer a few questions yourself...

    1.) Do you think the reason Ryan has struggled is his OL and OC? If so what % would you guesstimate is on Ryan himself?
    2.) Do you think as of today Ryan is a franchise QB?
    3.) Do you think Ryan is a top 10Qb?
    4.) What would you like to see Ryan IMPROVE on going forward?
     
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  32. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    I wanna play.
    1) Yes.(but also has not made strides in his own deficiencies so the poor play of the OL is exaggerated) Also impossible to guess without knowing what goes on in house.
    2) No.
    3) No.
    4) POCKET PRESSENCE! ( this would shoot him into top 10 IMO)
     
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  33. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Fair.
     
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  34. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    4) POCKET PRESSENCE! ( this would shoot him into top 10 IMO)'

    Is that something that can be learned with the proper coaching?
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Ok, I answered them for myself.

    Also, #1 is apparently not appropriate for this thread. You should remove it.
     
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  36. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Based on your previous responses I'll take a shot at it for you.
    1.) Do you think the reason Ryan has struggled is his OL and OC? If so what % would you guesstimate is on Ryan himself? 75% OL, 24% OC, 1% RT
    2.) Do you think as of today Ryan is a franchise QB? I don't know, but he did have a 4 game stretch last year where he looked like one and with a "competent" OL he can be "above average" and possibly a franchise QB.
    3.) Do you think Ryan is a top 10Qb? See question 2
    4.) What would you like to see Ryan IMPROVE on going forward? His OL and OC.
     
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  37. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    4.) If someone looks like a goofball, but doesn't THINK they are a goofball?? Are they a goofball?

    Critical question to determine if you have any self awareness.
     
  38. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Bam!
     
  39. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    FinD is painted into a corner as more and more people realize that Tannehill is part of the problem.
    He will come around. After the third game of this season he finally realized that Coach Philbin was part of the problem and supported his firing after defending him as staunchly all offseason and through our late season collapse last year.

    With that being said I HOPE that FinD is 10000000% correct on every point and that Ryan evolves in a to a great QB. IMHO the odds are low that he'll suddenly have NFL caliber awareness to match his amazing arm, tenacity and professionalism.
     
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  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It doesn't matter if or what you got correct. You, like the rest of the Haters don't really apy attention anyway. I've answered each of these questions numerous times. I've answered them numerous times to Fin-O directly.

    Doesn't matter though, you guys just keep making stuff up anyway.
     

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