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Every Tannehill drop back vs Dallas

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CitizenSnips, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    What else explains his poor play this season? Did he forget how to play after a tremendous season or are we seeing a less dramatic version of what's going on with Peyton?


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  2. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    He's always had an issue throwing picks.
     
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  3. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    No. I know this is hard for you to understand and I have to repeat myself. We don't know just how much the Colts fudged their injury reports or when they did.


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  4. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's true, but when has he ever looked like this? He's thrown for 40 TDs and made it one game shy of the Super Bowl with a team that earned their top pick- him. He was a freaking MVP candidate.


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  5. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    Smh. When I entered into this debate I even stated that Luck's injuries was hurting his play but I did want to point out to you that he most likely started the year healthy and during that time before he went down he didn't play well. But you want to play dumb in thinking that colts was playing him hurt to start the year.

    I'm embarrassed in how you can't admit that Luck has played badly when he was healthy or hurt.
     
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  6. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    Just turnovers in general.
     
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  7. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    Sadly, I feel like most football fans are this unfair, biased, and subjective lol.
     
  8. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You haven't given a single reason why you're making favorable comparisons.

    How is Tannehill even close in any dimension of his game? If you refer to any of Luck's games this year, there's already a cast of doubt on this entire season because of reports that the Colts fudged their injury reports.

    Stick to the games we KNOW they've been healthy for. There's enough of a sample size. Go ahead, I'll wait.


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  9. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    No time.
     
  10. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You're the one making the leap to claim he was healthy or not. I'm saying we don't know, including me. Why do you insist he was healthy at any particular point?


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  11. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    I'm done. If you really want to play dumb in that the colts wanted to start their season with their Franchise QB hurt. I really really got nothing else to add in this convo.
     
  12. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I'll wait. There's six weeks left for you to evaluate Tannehill some more. You should be able to come up with an argument by then, right?


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  13. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    It's not playing dumb. It's called not making claims when I'm not in a position to. How are you in a position to do so?


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  14. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    Cause I'm using common sense? Why would any team would start the season with their OB so hurt that he would hurt their chances to win? Like why would do they that?

    You can't accept that fact that sometimes... sometimes good players can play bad for a period of time.
     
  15. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    That's the thing. Let's imagine he really was injured then for the sake of this argument.

    You've got a franchise quarterback who's played amazingly well and is somewhat injured (I'm not gonna speculate on the severity) or the oldest non kicker in the NFL as a backup.

    Hindsight is a funny thing. Hasselbeck played well for two games. Nobody expected that. Now he's showing why he's a backup.

    I'm not saying good players can't be bad for a period of time... Like Rodgers. But you're choosing to say this is a Rodgers phenomenon as opposed to a Manning one even though the evidence clearly tilts towards Manning.


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  16. number21

    number21 Active Member

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    Agree to disagree. You clearly don't want to see that he has played badly in what I think was the only time he was really healthy this year. So whatever.
     
  17. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Emphasis on what you think. It's a claim you can't back up with legitimate evidence. There's reports casting a shadow of doubt on the Colts injury report, which is not unheard of and is done for obvious reasons.

    Yet I'm told I have the agenda. Newsflash, I'm not making any claims. You guys are.


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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, people are saying that you don't know when he was hurt, or not hurt. You're saying he gets a pass on the season because we don't know when he was hurt.

    I don't think alot of his crappy play looked like a result of being hurt, it looked like poor decision making.

    Also, I think it's naive to believe that Luck accounted for 9 wins, all on his own. I do not believe that the Colts were a legitimate 2 win team.
     
  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    No ones making excuses. Tje guy is playing well with what he's got. Just because there are people on this forum that think madden is reality doesn't mean we're making excuses. We're pointing out the weaknesses in their analysis
     
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  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you picked out that one play from all the plays and blamed the wrong guy, I'm merely saying it wasn't a good throw on that play and thats why it was incomplete.
     
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  21. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You and I have already been through that argument. You know that's not my position and I'm not getting into it again.


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  22. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    Week after week, season after season we're analyzing footage and we always come to the conclusion that if everybody else were better around him, he'd do well.

    That's the case for a lot of QBs. I've posted loads of statistics to show he's mediocre. I've analyzed other teams supporting casts, compared and contrasted with Tannehill's, same thing with individual stats across seasons even with Matt Moore. Time and time again I've shown that Tannehill is mediocre.

    This is why, the overwhelming majority of the time, we're gonna be back next week talking about how he could've done better but X, Y and Z limited him. He should do better but he won't because he's just mediocre. The same thing can be said for a lot of QBs.


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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I know, but when you bring up the two win team, as evidence of how good Luck is, what exactly are you saying, if not that Luck was responsible for the extra wins?
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Where are these comparisons of supporting casts? How many teams have bad olines AND below average defenses? How many also have poor kicking teams? How many also have inconsistent receiving play? How many also have poor offensive coordinators and terrible play calling?

    I mean, I'd be fine with complaining about Tannehill if he were in, say, Wilson's shoes, having a great defense for his first three years and a great running attack, but still could only manage 8-8 records.

    But Tannehill for his first three seasons had terrible oline play, bad defense, bad kicking unit, bad coaching, bad playcalling, and below average receivers. This year he still has bad oline play, inconsistent defense, inconsistent receivers, terrible playcalling, unqualified coaching, and maybe average kicking.

    The deck has been stacked against him from the beginning. That's all anyone is saying.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The throw wasn't great, but it was a catch that should have been made. It's kind of a microcosm of Tannehill. When he's not perfect, things aren't successful.

    And then everyone blames Tannehill for not being perfect. People's expectations are way out of line, if they're looking for perfection.
     
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  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, just glanced at Matt Ryan's numbers, THill tracks fairly well with Matt Ryan.

    Not a stat monkey myself, do think they are useful for comparision not for projection. Tannehill's Td production is off this yr, still time to rebound. What is really tossing salt into Tannehill this yr is multiple games with multiple interceptions. In 3 division games this yr, he has had multiple Int's in all three, the last Bills game was the only one he has not done that in this year.
     
  27. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Off in what way? He has essentially the same TD% as last year.
     
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  28. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I said earlier this year that I was just sick and tired of debating about Tannehill when so much around him was so comically bad. I think Bill Lazor is way out of his depth calling plays. I can respect his concepts but his inability to utilize the running game to stabilize this offense is disappointing as well as his constant use of plays which attempt to stretch the defense laterally. That stuff only works if you have an ability to push the ball vertically as well whether it be through deep passes of runs right up the gut. Right now, Miami is predictable. I think it's also why any sort of north-south play (run or pass) can look so good--the defense isn't really expecting it.

    Tannehill is inconsistent but his numbers are respectable. He's on pace for 4,200 yards this year with 27 TDs. His passer rating upper 80s over the last few seasons which is only a couple points lower than most non-elite QBs at this point in their career. His numbers are on the money if you ask me. He just needs a standout season. That'll either happen by him throwing for 4,500 yards thereby raising his ypa or him throwing for less than 10 INTs thereby elevating his INT/Att stat. Either one would suffice as a "break out" year. That's what I'll be monitoring between now and the end of 2016.

    I'm neutral on money. For one, it's not mine and it shouldn't be considered an issue at all until it's holding the team back or causing conflict in the locker-room which I don't think it is in Miami. Secondly, based on how I've seen it broken down, Tannehill is not paid all that much relative to his peers. So his big contract is a merely a mirage due to how the NFL is. Any decent QB getting a new contract is going to get a nice sum. Then again, we could make a similar argument about other positions, too. Free agency is what it is.

    In regards to making plays, we have to be reasonable. I think for a solid QB, Tannehill flashes enough. He's not elite. We know that. He's not Wilson or Rodgers outside the pocket but he'll do better as the O-line improves which is the important thing. He'll be good enough that you can win with him in the same way that we've seen teams like the Ravens, Falcons, Panthers, and Bengals win with their QBs. There is no perfect comparison to Tannehill because he's had to develop his being a pocket passer while trying to remain an athletic QB who can run. Thomas, Douglas and Fox can't be out there whiffing and allowing pressure so quickly and so consistently however. That is killing Tannehill's consistency in the pocket. What you saw in this game is really what Tannehill is when he's on. He's making good reads, fairly accurate throws, stretching the field and giving you some element of play-making outside the pocket. He's not going to single-handed win you games but he's certainly going to give you something to build around.

    Bingo.
     
  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Then your stats are flawed. Just because you don't want to admit the supporting cast sucks and would rather delude yourself into thinking we're one QB away doesn't make it so.philbin wrecked this team. We have an oc who runs away from our running game faster than our rbs can. We have olinemen starting that are ranked below backups on other teams. That's reality. You gave Richard petty a Hyundai with two wheels and a bad transmission, entered him in the Daytona and blame him for not winning the damn thing
     
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  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    he is 10 Td's off his 2014 pace with 6 games to go, Matt Ryan has not topped 30 Td's in a season, to me Tannehill is a 30 td per season Qb, that is what I want to see from him.

    And for a meta point, if the offense is looked at objectively, we finally have the skill position pieces in place, Qb/Rb/Wr/Te. To me, fixing the offensive line requires 2 guards and a healthy Juwan James. We are in a good place moving forward offensively, from my pov, mostly due to Tannehill providing stability and good production from the Qb position.

    Put it this way, the last Qb to throw even 20 Td's in a season, was Jay Fiedler in the early 00's, we will have 3 straight yrs of much better then that production from our Qb AND even if we lose Miller in FA, Ajayi has flashed a lot of potential, if we lose Matthews in FA, we have Parker waiting in the wings.
     
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  31. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What?

    Matthews and Landry are on pace for 1k seasons, Miller has a shot at a 1k season, the skill position guys do not suck, Tannehill however, has to mature enough to not throw multiple int's in games. If I had to finger one of the major problems this season, it is Tannehill throwing int's in bunches..and then there are multiple games where he has surrendered Safeties.
     
  32. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    He was a big part of it. That's all I'm saying.


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  33. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    You're in no position to generalize and say my stats are flawed. Address them one by one and you might have a case. You didn't do the research and post it, so don't belittle what I did.

    I understand. I've compared supporting casts and shown what other QBs have done in similar situations. Tannehill should do better if he's going to continue to be paid as a franchise QB.


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  34. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I've gone through this before, I'm not doing it again. If anybody else cares to redo it, I'll stand by my claim.


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  35. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I agree with your first post.we are two guards and a backup tackle away from having a playoff caliber offense. Hell even one lineman should help. Our skill positions are set. I was referring to oline, defense and oc
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Where? I have yet to see any comprehensive comparison of Tannehill's teams and other teams.
     
  37. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not doing it again, it's too much work. But you can look through my replies if you want to.


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  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're trying to ride both sides of the fence.
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'd love a link to these comprehensive studies that your did before.
     
  40. finsfandan

    finsfandan Well-Known Member

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    How? He was a huge difference. Look at Romo for example. Their only wins so far are with him. But Bryant and Witten are huge factors as well. So I'm not going to say it's all the QB but some QBs are extremely important and valuable to their teams.

    Romo should be MVP because we've seen what they are without him.


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