This thread is comical relief. Exactly what I needed after yet another dolphins season down the tubes. Who says stupid people aren't valuable citizens?!
I agree with this 100%. Problem is he's already 4 yrs in and he's being paid like he's a hell of a lot more than mediocre. Nothing wrong with that if this were baseball.
Flacco may have been mediocre in some instances but he was the definition of elite when the Ravens needed him to carry the team. I'm not so sure Ryan can do the same.
The thing about Flacco is, he needed to get white hot when it mattered. That might happen once in a players career, and that's a maybe. If it doesn't? Then you never make the big dance.
Does Tannehill make that big throw and stand tall in the pocket in a hostile environment with under a minute to play? I have yet to see him do something equivalent.. I've seen more sacks and dump offs in that situation. And FTR, I would take Flacco over Tannehill in a heartbeat.
Just because Tannehill hasn't done something yet, doesn't mean he won't do it eventually. Development isn't black and white. It isn't always a straight line. It can ebb and flow and take time to accomplish. Of course that doesn't mean it will happen, but you can't say it won't just because it hasn't happened yet. That's why better coaching needs to be a priority, and not just for Tannehill, but for others as well.
You cannot wait 4-5 years for QB to suddenly have the light come on can you? I mean he is starting and costing you seasons. In the perfect world, and the one that I wanted. Moore would have started the 1st 2 years and then if he is not getting job done you bring in Tannehill who has had a chance to sit and learn like they did in the old days.
Outside of Drew Brees (who people forget led SD to a 12-4 record his 3rd year) can you name me another QB who turned it around and became markedly better after their 4th year? Not being hostile, just drawing a blank.
I agree. But if he's Flacco you're dependent on that white hot streak. I'm not saying dump Tannehill which is unreleastic. I'm saying, let's hope he develops into someone that is more reliable, as well as hedging bets developing other talent. Do it the Ron Wolf way. Pick one up every year whether drafting or FA. You might unearth a gem.
That's stating the obvious. Also obvious is that we need better players, not just coaches. Also obvious is that we can't just sit and wait around another 5 years just to see whether Tannehill is a late bloomer. Finally.. what's becoming more and more obvious to more and more people is that Tannehill isn't looking like our long-term answer at QB. What's not obvious is how to find that long-term answer at QB.
The first step is admitting a problem exists and setting parameters around how the problem can be solved. The last thing in the world this franchise needs is an endless debate about the QB that could extend to 2019.
Andy Dalton is still a test in progress. Let's see how they do in the playoffs. Rich Gannon is a good example as a late bloomer but wasnt he a journeyman QB most of his career before he became a Raider?
The thing is, I don't look at Tannehill as someone who needs to "turn it around" as much as I look at him as someone who needs to take the next step. Tannehill hasn't been a bad quarterback at all. So you have to look at quarterbacks who took that next step after a while. Eli Manning was called a bust until the end of his 4th season where he made a run. Andy Dalton and Cam Newton have taken a big step this year. Carson Palmer was bad for the last 8 years, now he's one of the better quarterbacks in the league. Steve Young wasn't anything special until his 5th year or so. There isn't any black and white scenarios, but there are quarterbacks from all eras who didn't really turn it up until their 4th or 5th year, and most of them had much more college experience than Tannehill did. Again, it doesn't mean it will happen, but it shouldn't surprise you if it does.
Good explanation. I hope he does as well. It just so frustrating being a Dolphins fan we wait all offseason to have our hopes demolished midway through the season.
That we can agree on. We really need to get the coaching situation right first. It starts there. I truly believe that.
Well if we draw parallels to Gannon, Gruden was a major factor in resurrecting his career. Hopefully we can find someone to do the same for Tannehill.
It wouldn't be ideal, but sometimes it takes longer. Of course having a guy blossom right off the bat would be nice, but it doesn't always work that way. Seriously though, do any of you guys really think Ryan Tannehill is a bad quarterback? You probably don't. And while he can be maddening with things like pocket presence, we've seen him have some big performances in his career. Not just a random game every now and then, we've seen him string good games together. He has hit a wall this year. He was improving each and every year before now. So what happened? My guess is a lot of things are contributing to it, including Tannehill himself. But when a new coach is hired, do you think he's going to be watching film on Ryan and say "this guy just isn't any good" or do you think he'll say "this guy can succeed with flying colors if we help him out and teach him a few things" ? Tannehill isn't going to be given forever, but he absolutely deserves a new coaching staff. I think he's clearly done enough to warrant that. I'd bet a lot of potential offensive coaches see that in him too. That's just my opinion though.
Doubtful Gruden will want to coach again. He's comfortable in the MNF booth. I think Hue Jackson and Sean Payton are going to be the front runners, and both know quarterbacks.
I played nice until it became apparent it wasn't going to matter. You realize he's the poster child for personal attacks don't you? I've asked him basic, common sense questions and I get nothing but disrespectful drivel in return. So get off ur high horse Rocky or put me on ignore.
Lol I'm not on a high horse. Fin D has been warned for his personal attacks too. I said on Saturday that EVERYONE needs to stop with it.
That'd be great and all but it's not a one sided street. Unfortunately, I was dead wrong about thill having a good game and the Fins winning. Not surprising though. I think the best thing for this franchise moving forward is to lose out and take a chance on another QB to groom with a new coach.
Too many variables to really make a solid conclusion. If i had to take a stab Id say the average is about 35-40%. Obviously some qbs have a much more minimal effect on the outcome. And I think Ryan defenitely is less than that, and to me thats disappointing. I would take a QB who can Win you games and lose you games than the caretaker approach we have taken with Ryan. Maybe he was doomed from the start, because I havent heard about another QB being treated with such kit gloves on and off the field as much as Ryan since the bust that is Tim Couch. Sadly, I see too many similarities with those 2. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FinD is just naturally consescending, I have no problem with his remarks. We all should stop being so sensative really when it comes to that stuff. Afterall, we are all in the same gang. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just keep in mind you have defense and ST's too, so if you say 35-40% of the total is due to the QB, then at most 60% is due to everyone else on the team, including coaches and all other offensive and defensive players. Even if you just argue based on intuition (I used a statistical approach), I'd think that at least 50% should be reserved for defense + ST, and probably a good deal more if you include coaches. That leaves less than 50% for the offense. 35-40% of the total gets you to around 70-80% of the offense due to QB (and it's even more if offense is less than 50% of total). That intuitively seems like a really high number, no? Anyway, people can have their opinions, but don't forget that you have to first subtract the portion you think is due to defense, ST and all coaches etc.. Do that first and then ask what percent of the remaining amount is due to the QB. I think when you do that you'll get in the same range (10-20%) that one arrives at using concepts like "variance explained" for some key QB stats.
I have never seen anything like this. Maybe because I'm old lol. Why do you guys take this so seriously? We are all fans of the same team, sadly. But we all want the same thing, to WIN! To stop seeing the freaking Pats win every year! Maybe the QB is bad, maybe the coaching is bad. But we can't change it from here. Unless one of you is tight with Ross? Let's just agree to disagree, move on, be buds and beat those stinking Jets!! OK, I'm done. Thanks. #weareonthesameteam
Yeah, I think you're probably right, when you say 10-20%, cbrad. The QB definitely affects things, and he probably had the most affect, in and of himself, than any other offensive player. However, he is still dependent on coaches, oline, and receivers to do their jobs as well. This idea that QBs turn teams around, by themselves, seems silly to me, no matter how much people throw up win/loss of the Colts or Cowboys, or whoever else. Did those players on those teams forget how to block, or catch, or play defense without their starter QBs playing?
It's probably worth pointing out that while 10-20% seems small, that's like saying the QB is responsible for anywhere between 25-50% of all offensive output (after excluding the coaches), which is huge but I think dovetails with what many would say intuitively in this passing league. Anyway, despite the obvious entertainment value, I do hope Tannehill's play by the end of the year brings most people's opinions about him closer to a consensus. Never expected a single issue to dominate a football message board discussion so long haha!
Forgetting "HOPING". That's all this fanbase does. They should be more logical about it and keep a developmental QB on the staff to hedge their bet.
Problem is, it doesn't help either! It's so frustrating to not have any influence over something you care about.. seriously, we need a movement to get the NFL to allow public ownership of teams (GB got an exemption because they already had it before the NFL banned it).
Have you seen the existence known as the New York Jets? If that isn't a gift from God, I don't know what is.
