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mathews and miller....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by caliphinfan, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. caliphinfan

    caliphinfan Active Member

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    what do we do? can we afford to let 2 of our best players walk at the end of the season? these 2 players are clearly very talented, and young. i can already see mathews ending up on a rival team and coming back to haunt us if we let him go. he is at worst our second best reciever.we see the talent in miller, he just isnt getting enough touches. i just hope to find a way to keep them.
     
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  2. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    Resign Miller. Let Matthews go. There's so much (too much) invested in the receiver position as it is. Your 1st round draft pick WR is not getting on the field. Your talented TE is being underutilized. And besides, this team should make running the ball a priority next year, and you need two viable if not talented RBs to make that happen.
     
  3. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    what kind of comp pick will we get if matthews leaves?
     
  4. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Imo you sign both players, thats how you build a winner, stock pile as much talent as you can, build through the draft, I don't think either player will break the bank, and I don't think that Ajayi's leg can be counted on long term, I'm not saying I know it won't, just saying it's a risk, and that's assuming he continues to play as well as he has.
     
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  5. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd bring back BOTH of them. Miller is pretty obvious I think. Matthews is having a breakout year and I think you have to consider that Kenny Stills only has 1 year left on his contract after this season and DeVante Parker's foot has proved troublesome, even though we keep hearing it's a non-issue.

    I'd also try and bring back Derrick Shelby if you can. Olivier Vernon can walk. He's not worth what he's going to ask, and he hasn't been good this year up until the Eagles game.

    *Should add that I think you can re-sign Shelby to be a 1st & 2nd down player and use Cameron Wake as a pass-rush specialist essentially the way Miami had been using him from the Titans - Patriots games. I think that saves you, at least this year, from trying to sign/draft 2 defensive ends. I'd still target Shaq Lawson or Emmanuel Ogbah to replace Vernon though.
     
  6. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I wouldn't be too sure that Cameron remains on the roster, he goes up to 7.5 mil next year, and so far, he hasn't been worth it.

    What if Parker doesn't develop as planned? and we let go of a good WR and end up with just 1 good WR in Landry? I'd be trying to keep Matthews because he's a proven commodity here and he's not getting a huge contract imo.
     
  7. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Not much, if anything, those picks are based on draft status, salary, production and post season production, although the actual breakdown isn't exactly known, but it seems that salary is the key factor,
     
  8. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Um, they produce a list every year about what teams will get what. It's done before the day these are awarded by a guy on the internet. He's usually right on the money, the rules are published online. So to say that the breakdown isn't known is just folly especially as the guy on the web does it in his spare time.
     
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  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Well then, why don't you provide a link to the specific details of how they come to the conclusion.

    Good luck!
     
  10. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Draft status has nothing to do with it.
     
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  11. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Why? I owe you something? You want to know so you go look it up, it's been on this site several times. What you do and don't know is not my problem. You want answers, get off your *** and do it yourself.

    Try Google.
     
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  12. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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  13. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    I don't see the point in re-signing Miller. The vast majority of running backs are not worth the money these days.

    I'd be more intent with keeping Matthews. If there weren't constant questions about Parker's health, I'd be alright with not re-signing him, but that's a different story right now. Also Tanny has great chemistry with him.
     
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  14. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What do you think they use to hand out the picks? The same guidelines.

    Have you ever used a formula before? **** me you've got to be kidding.

    And just out of curiosity how would you know who the picks will be until FA ends? If you want to predict it's next to impossible without information. That's what holds up the process until later on.
    That's the same for anything like that, if you don't have the information what can you possibly do bit guess.
     
  15. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    wasn't this already a thread last week. deja vu
     
  16. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would love them both back too, but I think at some point Miami has to trust in their draft process.

    The problem is that we've given money to so many other FA's. I'm always of the mindset to give money to the players we've drafted, that are good players. However, it's going to be tough when we're dishing out money to Branden Albert, Suh, Grimes, etc. We have some contracts that we can cut, but I think there may still be some dead money attached to that.

    What I'm getting at is that we invested a lot of resources in Parker. You just have to hope he can either fill Matthews role, or be even better in it. Lamar Miller is awesome. I want him back, but can Jay Ajayi fill that role for 4 years at a much smaller price? If we can clear the space, then I want them both back too.

    Vernon can go bye bye. I think he's a solid player too, but I think we can upgrade there for what he's wanting $$ wise.
     
  17. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Miami can clear a lot of space while still being able to bring back Miller, Matthews and Shelby. There's the clause in Suh's contract. I think you have to take a pretty hard look at getting rid of guys like Brent Grimes, Koa Misi and Jordan Cameron. There's also some easier contracts that can come off the books in Greg Jennings and Dion Jordan. I think you can do the same thing to Tannehill's contract as you can do to Suh's, essentially spreading it out via guaranteed bonuses to make the base numbers come down. Plus, the cap usually gets an influx league-wide seemingly every year.

    I think Miami will be fine, but I do agree, they have to hit picks this year, especially on the defensive side of the ball. If they came out of the first 3 rounds with a CB, MLB and a base DE I think that'd be a very nice boost, if not a necessity moving into 2016.
     
  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like both of these guys as long as they are not looking for top dollar. The value in FA is usually with the bread and butter guys,not the Ndamukong Suh guys.
     
  19. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    For me, Miller is the easy re-sign. Starting running backs who aren't dominant All Pros don't break the bank. Players at Miller's calibre have gotten very reasonable deals in recent seasons. He's highly talented, he's productive when given the chance, he's still very young (he's only 24, and will only be a year or two older than some rookies next year), hasn't had a lot of wear and tear, and he's from Miami. I've never even seen him quoted, let alone heard that he's a problem in the locker room or a bad guy. He's the textbook case for a guy who you keep and don't let walk.

    Matthews is harder. He's not been productive much until this year, and that's in part on him and in part on Philbin. He has some skills, but his size and speed aren't in any way special. And then you have the fact that his personality and immaturity have been the main reason he hasn't seen the field a lot. On top of that, we have three other young receivers on the team who deserve playing time. Letting him go would be a bit of a gamble because he's done more now than Stills and Parker have, but I think that its likely that either or both of them could be as productive if healthy and given the shot. I won't be angry if the team brings Matthews back, but I don't expect it to happen.

    As for the DL, I think that Vernon, like Odrick last year, will likely get an offer from someone else that isn't worth matching, and we let him move on. Shelby is a good role player, but giving him a raise from the 2.5 mil he makes right now would be hard to stomach, and we have Fede around who can do a lot of the same things. I don't see either of them back.
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mark Ingram got $4m last year. I don't know if Miller deserves a lot more than that.

    Matthews is not top shelf either so you might be able to get him a little cheaper as well.
     
  21. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Now this I agree with. But I think it'll come down to price tag. I'm all for re-signing both if we can get fair deals done for all parties.
     
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  22. SuhMe

    SuhMe Banned

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    OV should be prioritized over all our FA's imo. If we lose him, our DE position looks really weak going forward, as much as I like Rishard and Lamar the drop off if we lose them isn't as drastic as it would be without Vernon. Shleby is a solid player and I hope we keep him too, but OV is a little younger and lot more physically gifted for the position as evident in last weeks game.
     
  23. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely make re-signing Matthews as top option. Miller secondary, but both would be good to bring back.
     
  24. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Letting one or both go would be just another one of those personnel bungles the front office has a knack for.
     
  25. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  26. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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  27. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    And you know his personality and immaturity have been the main reason how?

    Phil McGeoghan, assistant WR coach, says Matthews hasn't missed a single practice in 4 years (see video). That doesn't sound very immature. What I heard the issue was Matthews was frustrated he wasn't getting playing opportunities.

    http://www.miamidolphins.com/multim...yd_Catch/5a44826f-cd9e-45ea-86eb-6cc3bfb69edb

    His personality seems pretty good now. Not the typical diva WR. Gives a lot of credit to teammates:

    http://www.miamidolphins.com/multim...nce_Back/b64212de-22a1-4950-928b-aa0919538b67

    Here is Tannehill's numbers when throwing to Matthews:

    42-57 (73.9%), 647 yards (11.35 YPA, 15.4 YPC), 4 TD pass, 1 int = 126.85 QB rating

    Tannehill throwing to everyone not named Matthews:

    170-277 (62.5%), 1,805 yards (6.52 YPA, 10.62 YPC), 11 TD, 8 int = 81.58 QB rating

    Matthews has clearly been our offensive MVP. The only real question is why is Tannehill only targeting him 6.3 times per game?

    Miami is one of the least big-play teams in the NFL. Tannehill has 8 completions over 40 yards this season and Matthews has 4 of those. Why let a player walk that has 4, 40+ yards on 42 catches when the rest of the team has 4, 40+ yards on 170 catches?

    Matthews ranks the following among "all" WRs who are in the top 80 in receiving yards:

    3rd in YPA = behind James Jones (12.38) and Torry Smith (11.352 as compared to Matthews 11.350)
    15th in 1st down % per completion at 71.4%
    17th in catches 20+ yards per catch % at 23.8%
    15th in Yards After Catch per catch

    For Miami to let a player they developed who has turned out to be a legit #1 and averages nearly 5 extra yards in YPA and YPC while our QBs rating ^ 45.27 points when throwing to him would be CRAZY.
     
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  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The major problem with the Dolphins in regards to their talent is that they prefer to overpay players from other teams who become free agents, while letting the players they drafted go elsewhere in free agency.

    Miller needs to be resigned because they just don't have another back on the roster who has yet to prove they can replace Miller. Ajayi might end up being a productive back for the Dolphins, but I would rather have Miller and Ajayi as members of the Dolphins going forward than just Ajayi.

    Right now the best WR on the Dolphins is Matthews. Those who want to just let him do go in free agency because the Dolphins drafted Parker, don't make sense to me.
    Parker hasn't proved anything yet in the NFL. He has had two foot surgeries in the past year and he may never be a productive player in the NFL and right now Matthews has proved he can be a very productive WR for the Dolphins.

    I think it is imperative the Dolphins sign Matthews to a new contract. Because if they don't, I see him signing with the Patriots and being a thorn in the Dolphins side for the next several years. You just can't afford to let your best WR go in free agency and hope that Parker will be productive in the years to come.

    Even if Parker becomes as productive as many imagine he can be. It would be great to have a trio as productive as Matthews, Landry, and hopefully Parker for the Dolphins QB to be able to throw to for the next half decade.

    I say sign Miller and Matthews. There will be plenty of money to do so after the Dolphins cut, Grimes, Cameron, Mitchell, Misi, and either cut or sign to a much smaller cap friendly dollar amount, Wake.
     
  29. Wildcat23

    Wildcat23 Here kitty kitty

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    Mathews isnt going to resign. You guys area crazy. Hes wanted out for a long time. Granted Im sure hes happy philbin is gone. Knowing that Parker is waiting in the wings; playing time oh his might go down if he resigns here. Id love to have him back, but Id get ready to move on from him if I were you.
     
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  30. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    He wanted out for a long time because he was the fifth WR on the roster and he wasn't getting any playing time unless one of the receivers in front of him was injured.
    I think the reason he would not come back has nothing to do with his feeling of wanting out in the past. I think if he doesn't come back it will be because another team will be willing to pay him a lot more than the Dolphins.

    If he does sign with another team, I believe it will be the Patriots or Jets and he will go to one of these teams and be a more productive WR for them than Parker will be for the Dolphins over the coming years.
     
  31. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with him only leaving b/c of a better offer elsewhere. I am sure Miami would love to bring him back, but I don't foresee him giving them a hometown discount considering how underutilized he's been. He is 26 and on the last year of his 7th round rookie contract, so this will more than likely be his best chance at a big payday.

    I can see him thriving in GB. I'm sure Rogers would love throwing to him...tough, hard-worker, competitive, hands-catcher...what's not to like. He played for Nevada Wolfpack (Reno) so a team out west might be attractive to him as well.
     
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  32. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Id bring Cameron back but on a lesser contract... 4 mill per year... The guy has lots of talent... I think he is afraid of contact now tho... In Cleveland he was the lone bright spot and made playsall the time..
     
  33. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Jets wont get matthews they already have enough receivers, what they need is a quarterback..

    I think hes a great fit in Green Bay, any receiver fits in New England...

    But just going by the many cries of Matthews for touches/playing time, i think he ends up on a team that will give him that.

    So my three random guesses are..

    Baltimore
    Seattle
    San Diego

    We wont be bringing back Matthews even if we match the offer, we will have to outbid for him to stay.
     
  34. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Let Miller go ahead and test the market, if he comes back back without big offers you resign him.
    Matthews sticks. His development has been high and continuous.
     
  35. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    This is silly. Jennings and Cameron will likely be cut this off-season. After that, you have Landry, an unproven Parker, and an underachieving Stills.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's Matthews over Stills at this point.
     
  37. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Unfortunately I agree with this. Mathews doesn't have many fond memories of his time in Miami and he only got his real opportunity this year because Parker and Stills were injured. If I were him I wouldn't be very interested in giving Miami a home team discount.
     
  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Recall, from Hartlines' pov "why would I offer a discount, they had me on a cheap contract to begin with"?

    Would love to keep both, we are cap hard up this offseason coming up, granted Wake probably will not be back for 10 millie, ditto Grimes, still, we have Parker in the wings and Ayaji.

    Would keep Miller and chalk up Matthews to "ol Joe" being a moron and wasting his cheap yrs here.
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    OV...not so much, good player, he is also easily replaced.

    Never has quite turned the big bucks corner, he is the Misi of the defensive line
     

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