http://www.thephinsider.com/2015/11...t=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter What do you think about this?
I think it's a good way of looking at it, but my main concern is voiced in that article. If Campbell is retained (based on how we finish) who would be willing to work under him at both the offensive and defensive coordinator positions? I see no problem with him coming back, but he's got to have smart people around him. Right now the entire coaching staff is essentially inexperienced in the most important areas. Lazor I guess has the most experience, but he's been terrible as a coordinator and I see him being replaced at seasons end. Campbell wants a big physical team out there on the field, then we can expect some big personnel changes on the roster. I don't know....It just sucks being a Miami Dolphin fan right now...If we could somehow magically go on a run and win a bunch of games this year, all would be well.
I agree to a point also. I think it'll be hard for him to get established coordinators here because usually they are looking for another head coaching gig or a chance to go to a contender. His best bet would be a younger hungry coach who wants to make a name for himself. Another thing is how long it will take us to turn over the roster to replace our finesse players with maulers.
I think it was a poorly written article that was more about the author that the Dolphins. Do you really think that come January, Ross is going to say, "Well Dan, I'm afraid I can't make you head coach because you didn't call a timeout in week 9." Campbell will be judged for 12 full games and particularly how we close out the season.
My view of Campbell after 4 games is that somewhere down the road, he might be a good NFL head coach. I just think he needs more time as an assistant. Hopefully he will be able to get with a team who has an experienced and solid head coach, so he can see how these type coaches function during the week and during the game. So far in the NFL, his experience as an NFL assistant coach have been under Sparano and Philbin. Not the two best head coaches to learn from, IMO. As a player he certainly played for some excellent head coaches, but players and coaches have completely different roles during the week and during the game. I think 3-4 years under a top tier head coach and Campbell will be ready for a permanent position as a head coach in the NFL. I just don't think he is ready to be a permanent head coach at this time. The Dolphins are about to go into their 3rd or 4th rebuilding program in the last decade during the up coming off season. They need to hire an experienced head coach who knows exactly how he wants this team constructed. He needs to be able to work with Tannebaum and whoever the GM might be, but he has to be able to demand they draft his type of players. With a rebuilding program in the offing, it certainly isn't going to be a time when you have a head coach who is still learning on the job how to be a head coach.
A rookie player has other players to lean on in a game. If he isn't playing well, you can replace him or let him sit a few weeks until he is prepared to give it another shot on the field. A head coach doesn't have this luxury. He needs to be at the top of his game week in and week out, if he expects his players to be prepared to win. I personally don't think he is ready to be a full time head coach in the NFL at this time, but the decision isn't mine to make.
If I may pose the question...would you not take the lumps or defeats if you knew you had a great coach in the making..your willing to give up maybe what is a long term answer at a position that we havent had since shula because you want immediate satisfaction?
If I KNEW he was a great coach in the making, certainly I would be willing to put up with the growing pains until he gets there. Unfortunately there is no way to project who will become a great head coach. I doubt the Browns would have ever fired Belichick if they had known what a great had coach he would end up being. The difference though is that Belicheck was a great defensive coordinator who had years of experience as a coach in the NFL before he became a great head coach. Campbell has limited time as a full time position coach in the NFL and it is still very unclear if he has what it takes to be a head coach in the NFL. It is all about the X's and O's and his ability to get the players to believe in his system and his coaches. Maybe he can be that guy, but many people also thought the last four inexperienced NFL head coaches could be that guy too. I just think there has to be a better option out there than once again hiring a head coach who has to learn on the job. If he can lead this team to a minimum of 8 wins this season, I will be glad to see him get the opportunity to see how he develops. Anything less than 8 wins and I would hope the front office is looking at other candidates to fill the head coaching position. I am over 65 years old and I don't have a lot of years left to go through the on the job training of another head coach. Perhaps you younger fans can continue to wait for the right coach to finally arrive, but for me, I would like to see some instant improvement starting next year.
Trust me jw.. the frustration is hitting us all. It's hard rooting for a team that keeps losing, especially when you have NO control over what happens!!! I really think it would be so much better for the NFL and its fans if they allowed public ownership of the teams. Wouldn't it be great to let the fans have a voice that matters?? Anyway, regarding Campbell, he's going to have to do a lot better than what we saw in Buffalo. That initial 2-game win streak is looking more and more like a typical emotional bump that had less to do with Campbell than with him being a new HC. Either way, we'll see by the end of the year whether he's HC material or not. Best thing about all this: Ross actually did fire Philbin mid-season so we're with near certainty going to have a better HC next year than we've had in years past.
You are correct. With me it is more frustration over what has happened with this organization. I am not angry because I do believe Ross wants to bring a winning team to Miami. My frustration is that I really have concerns if he has what it takes to hire a first class coach and GM to turn this team around. He became the majority owner nearly six years ago after the Dolphins had finished 11-5 the year before he took over. The team has not had a single winning season under his ownership and this years team just might end up having the worst record in the past six years. As far as Ross firing Philbin during the season and this giving us hope he will hire a better HC after the season. We can only hope this turns out to be true but the last time he fired a HC during the season, he ended up hiring Philbin once that season was over. I think we can both probably agree that Philbin was no upgrade over Sparano. Like you, I only hope we finally are able to get a quality HC and GM once this season is finally over.
talent evaluation..comes for coaches as well, gotta see it and trust..we obviously don't have the inside scoop here, but this dude has skills that not many have, gotta be very careful on this one having a quick trigger...if you think the foundation is there, you roll..fu## what everyone else thinks..
if i was owner i would seriously consider retaining campbell. i believe he has a good feel for players and how to get the best out of them. having said that i also believe there is validity in the concern for him being able to overhaul the position coaches and get talented coordinators. parcells would probably help him with that though. i dont care about his xs and os knowledge. thats more for coordinators. what i want from a coach is a good feel for the game. ive liked what he's tried to instill but he's now hit the brick wall reality of what our talent level will allow us to achieve. does he adjust over the next few weeks situationally to play to our talent level while trying to stay aggressive? we'll see. having said all of this I will be surprised if ross actually retains him. he's in all likelihood going to go for the big names available in the offseason. if he does he better hit because you cant keep changing the direction of the team and expect to win which is one of the reasons i would like to retain campbell. it would be a sort of continuity rather than an overhaul
Well in fairness to Campbell, he inherited the mess that Joe Fking Philbin made. He's doing his best to clean it up. I'd be fine giving him a chance to build "his" type of football team. Anything is better than what we've put out there these first eight weeks.
IMO you focus on talent rather than experience with the coach just like with players. The HC can rely on his staff just like a rookie does with his team mates. Reality is that you see 20 year coaches make the same time management mistakes every week. Some coaches will learn from their experience immediately (or even better from watching others' experiences) and some will learn nothing regardless of how much experience they have. Campbell may have been learning during his playing years (in fact, some of his past coaches and team mates said that he was exactly that kind of guy while playing). So a guy who learns from his experiences or from others experiences can be as experienced (or more) in real terms as the guy with the bigger number of coaching years on his resume. I'll take the guy who learns regardless of how many years he puts on his resume. Time will tell whether Campbell is one who learns or one who doesn't. And really that's just a minor part of the job. Fans focus on the little things they think they understand rather than on the whole of the job. IMO the biggest issue is whether he can get the most out of his players. That's the real talent. Now I don't know if Campbell has talent or not. I want the rest of the season to make that judgment.
This is how I look at it… Dan Campbell is currently the interim HC. In other words, he’s filling in while the position is vacant and will lose that title once the season ends. Once the HC spot is open, I don’t think Campbell should get any special treatment. His resume should be treated like everyone else’s, IMO. As of the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] week of January, the Miami Dolphins will cease to have a HC. At that point, I would consider the position open to anyone. Rather than treating other coaches as though they have to ‘beat out’ Dan Campbell, I consider all to be equals. If I were Ross, I’d sit down with Dan Campbell and make a promise that he’ll be considered for the HC job upon seasons end and given the chance to interview within the organization given his present status with the team. I’d remind him that as a candidate he’ll be carefully considered and reviewed during the selection process but that he wouldn’t necessarily be put ‘ahead’ of anyone else based on being the present interim HC. Thus I would advise him to prepare as best he could and focus on doing everything that’s in his power to coordinate the team. I’d remind him that the difficulties associated with being inexperienced and unprepared would be considered in any evaluation of his merit. In short I’d say, “you are automatically in the race and you’ll get the same shot everyone else will.” Rest assured though, the hiring of a new HC is a proactive move. There’s no possibility of legitimately back-dooring someone into the role of HC. Campbell supporters will have to argue his case against that of all the other coaching candidates and in my view Campbell’s personal relationships within the team will mean very little. It’s not about present friendships. It’s about the future success of the team. The decision as to who gets selected will be influenced by each coach’s resume, past experience and personality as well as what Miami feels they want in a HC. If the Dolphins were to sign Campbell at that point (notice I didn’t say re-sign), we’d know that (1) the team really felt Campbell could bring a lot to the table as a HC or that (2) Tannenbaum is going to be the architect and that he views Campbell as a satisfactory underling. In my view, the latter seems more likely given Tannebaum’s presence and power. I don’t personally have faith in Tannenbaum as an architect I have my suspicions about any solution that puts him at the top of the pyramid. Nevertheless, I don’t believe there’s any scenario wherein the HC doesn’t play a major role in guiding and preparing his staff as well as in teaching and developing the players. In short, no matter the power of the GM, the coach will play a huge role in determining how well the team is prepared and how they play. The onus is therefore on Campbell’s supporters to prove he’ll excel as a full-time HC. Keep in mind that as of a few weeks ago, no one really knew anything about this guy. The fact is, he's going to get a lot of support simply because he's viewed as the incumbent. In my opinion, there is no incumbent in this scenario. So the question is, in a world where you're going to have candidates like Hue Jackson and Vic Fangio, how do you argue in favor of Dan Campbell as a long-term HC? That's very difficult to do considering we can’t even show that Campbell has ever seriously considered what he’d do in a situation like that. What is Campbell’s vision for the team? Does he even have one? Will he have any real notion of how to fix what’s wrong, what coaches to select, what kind of relationship he wants with them, etc.? More importantly, who does he know that he can bring in and will anyone out there come in and work for him if asked? Before you even get to the X’s and O’s part of things, there seem to be a ton of question marks in regards to how he would organize the team. He may have a voice but does he have anything to say? A captain needs to understand where the ship is going as well as how to get there. He also needs to have the skills and connections to make that all happen. To me, it seems like the closest comparison we have to Dan Campbell (and therefore the best projection) is Tony Sparano, who worked with TEs and linemen prior to coming to Miami but who (given his lack of coordination expertise/experience) was woefully out of his depth as a HC wherein he was tasked to be a problem solver. At the end of the day, Sparano was a solid positional coach, a good player motivator but not someone with the expertise and vision to be a HC. Just to be clear, no one is saying they disapprove of the job Campbell has done so far or that he's a bad guy or that he wouldn't be welcomed back to Miami as a positional coach. What people are going to justifiably point out is how weird it would be for someone like Campbell (who only has a few short years of minor-grade coaching experience) to wind up getting picked over several other much more high-profile coaches who would seem to bring a lot more to the table in terms of knowledge, experience, exposure, outside connections, overall vision, etc. So if anyone wants to stand up and advocate Campbell come January, they're free to do it but they have to remember it's on them to make a case for why that makes the most sense.
I want to primarily focus on the HC instead of the GM. A good HC can pull talent out of practically anybody. A decent GM can draft several guys that won't be ranked at the bottom of their positions. I want a defensive minded HC (defense wins championships) that can make use of players strengths instead of focusing on schemes. I want that HC to have connections to an OC and positional coaches that specialize in ground and pound. In other words, an old school pro style offense where the QB is mostly under center. We need good protection up front, we need to get manageable third downs, we need to convert them and we need to win the time of possession. We aren't doing ANY of that well. We're ranked near the bottom in every one of those categories. That will help us on defense as well. Who does that sound like? Whoever it is, I want that guy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only reason I keep Campbell if he produces a losing record is if I want to keep Lazor and Hickey in place for another year. LAZOR: At this point the offense is ranked 13th, it could go either way at this moment. If we end up in the top 10 it would be the highest we've been since Marino years. It would be our best 2 year stretch since the Marino years. We have a top 5 RB and a top 5 WR. Tannehill is on pace to have 8 games of 8+ ypa which would put him among the elite/upper echelon QBs. In fact, in the Buffalo game Tannehill looked as sharp as I've ever seen him, he even put a pump fake move on a defender and got us in a hurry up to keep the defense from substituting. This is huge progress and I don't know if I would want to mess with it at this time, especially when you consider that we can opt out of Tannehill's contract after next season. Is it really the time to introduce another new system excuse for him? HICKEY: -Jarvis Landry. That dude is a phenom. Just in the Bills game a few of those grabs down the field over defenders were incredible. -When he took over the line was a disaster and he had to replace all 5 starters, by the end of the season it was ranked 14th and was top 10 before Albert went down. -And its too early to judge him on most of his picks, especially from the 2015 draft Tannenbaum probably wants Hickey out of the way, and its hard to say whose moves are whose in 2015, so that part may be moot. And as far as Lazor goes the age old question will apply: is the system making the QB or is the QB making the system? I'm predicting a total rebuild (outside of Tannenbum).
I think Vic Fangio would be a good candidate. He's been a coach for several decades. He's worked with the Ravens defense, the 49ers defense (under a quality head coach in Harbaugh) and now resides in Chicago under Jon Fox (another productive head coach) where he's the DC. He not only has involvement with historically good defenses and several elite players but has been around great coaches. Most interesting is how Bruce Arians praised Fangio when he more or less said 'someone needs to make this guy a HC.' Arians name carries some weight.
Interesting, indeed. I'm going to look him up. Any idea what his coaching staff would look like? Any ties to ground and pound coaches? I love Arians, what a great QB whisperer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My perception of Lazor is that he seems to prefer high success/completion percentage plays instead of high winning percentage plays. For example, I don't see many plays designed to get the defense off balance. He designs plays to fit our players' skill sets, but it often seems like those are plays created in a vacuum. At least that's the impression I often have. So in that sense I think the system is making the QB more than the other way around. Tannehill has the physical tools to do far more than the OC is letting him do. Where I sour on Tannehill is that after 4 years he doesn't seem to think fast. The 2-minute/4-minute offense is so slow and I really have doubts Tannehill can ever read defenses well and make good snap judgments. From that perspective, the QB is making the system. Anyway, we'll know by year's end whether Campbell is worth keeping, but I think we need to get rid of Lazor. As far as Hickey.. I'm fine with his drafts, and allegedly Tannenbaum and Hickey had a real disagreement only with Phillips, where Tannenbaum overruled Hickey. Given that Tannenbaum is ultimately the boss, I actually think they'll keep Hickey. Either way, the big decision for this franchise is at HC, not GM.
I can’t really attack what you’re saying Roy. I understand where you’re coming from. Given that 2016 could be a make-or-break year for many things you may be right. Then again, we can fall victim to that “give it 1 more year” line of thinking nearly every season. In fact, we often do. If Miami gave it one more “prove it” year they could conceivably end up moving on from Campbell, Lazor, Tannehill, Stills and several other players all at once which to some fans will seem appealing. Waiting one more year might actually be the best thing if you really believe in wiping the slate clean. So it seems that again Miami is faced with the same old decision…do they address each area of the team piece by piece as it’s convenient or do they commit to blowing things up after 2015? After 2016? The problem with giving it another year is…how do you know if things didn’t work out, because you know darn well there’s going to be some excuse next year. I can hear it now, the Guards were rookies, the RT was returning off of injury, the O-line needs time to gel, Parker is still developing chemistry with Tannehill, Campbell was still learning to be a HC, etc. The excuses change but they always seem to be there and that’s what should bother us. You really have to come up with a fixed notion of what your expectations are if you’re going to commit to one more year. The easiest way to do that is via wins but you could just as easily do it with stats, too. Trouble is, you know you’re going to hear excuses. You remember, “if you give a mouse a cookie?” Well, the Dolphins are that f***** mouse and every year they seem to want just 1 more cookie! Also, consider that being ranked 13[SUP]th[/SUP] isn’t all that great when Miami reached that point only after taking a very talented defensive roster, dismantling it and using those funds to build up an offense that now features: (1) a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round C (2) a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round LT (3) a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round RT (4) a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round QB (5) a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] round WR (6) a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] round WR (7) a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] round RB Add to that mix a TE who is one of the best receivers at his position (Cameron), a WR who is ranked as a top guy at present (Matthews) and a FA WR who in his last environment was very productive in both YPC and TDs (Stills). The fact is Miami has put QUITE A BIT into its offense under Joe Philbin and Bill Lazor. They spent nearly every first round pick on offense. It’s not just this year either. Miami featured a $60M WR last year as well as a TE that went on to ink a $40M deal as a FA. The fact the Dolphins offense has only come to rank 13[SUP]th[/SUP] isn’t all that impressive really. It’s made all the worse when you consider the QB still appears inconsistent from week to week and the offense as a whole still struggles mightily against better competition. So here’s the thing, with that much invested in offensive talent, can we really say the coaches are doing enough? Can we really say that continuity is that appealing? With that many draft picks and FAs invested on the offensive side of the ball, I’m fairly confident that virtually any offensive coordinator worth a damn could manage to produce at roughly the same clip. If you ask me, your standards are just too low, Roy. Great coaches don’t’ need to spend all those premium picks in order to get quality production. What good is a great coach if he needs premium talent—where’s there value in that? That’s why, if you ask me, Miami needs to let this talented offensive roster simply play ball with a more straight-forward scheme. Miami has the talent to spread teams out and get advantageous match-ups yet they rarely do it. With another linemen or two and some dearly needed commitment they could be a strong running team with a great play-action game. You don’t need to forgo defense in order to get quality offensive production with the kind of offensive talent Miami has which is why I feel Lazor is not bringing anything to the table and given the inconsistency, probably hurting the team. I couldn't agree more with what cbrad is saying when he's talking about how Tannehill is being forced to play in a kind of offense under Lazor that simply doesn't fit his skills, nor does it maximize his potential.
I have nothing against Dan Campbell, to be completely honest I was pumped when he got the interim gig. I heard him during press conferences and interviews and thought to myself this guy is the EXACT opposite of Joe Phikbin and obviously at the time, I was definitely all for it. I think somewhere down the line Campbell could be a good head coach But now isn't that time. The rah rah speeches eventually wear thin and then you're left with the question: does this guy give us an advantage heading into each game? Right now my answer would have to be no, at least not on the level that a Sean Patton, Bill Belichick or Bruce Arians could. He has a long way to go as far as scheming and game management is concerned. I cant speak for everyone but I for one don't want to endure his growing pains. Being im someone experienced who gives us an advantage at least on one side of the ball: Sean Payton, Hue Jackson etc... BTW, not to turn this intoa Tannehill thread but does anyone else find it alarming that Ryan didnt have the awareness to call a timeout during that debacle at the goal line going into half time? I don't care if time outs are called from the sideline. That should have come naturally in my opinion. Just some food for thought...
