Is Ryan Tannehill the long term solution at QB?

It's only meaningful if you're actually looking at the play of the team, and what QBs were working with.

 

I don't know how anyone else who have commented after the Texans game but my view of Tannehill has been the same for well over two years. I have never seen him as the long term answer for the Dolphins if you are looking for a QB who can lead your team to a SB victory.

He is what he is and I think it is pretty clear by now that his limitations as a QB will prevent him from ever being anything more than a mid tier QB in the NFL. To me, he is just another Alex Smith type QB.

 

I didn't contradict myself. Are you on this site just to bicker and argue with me all the time?

QBs do contribute partly to the W/L column. There's been no change since he was drafted. Won't happen again next season on account of him.

Do any QBs contribute heavily to the W/L column, in your opinion? If so, who? In what way?


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LOL, go watch Matthew Stafford right now.

That is a bad QB.

So much ignorance here.

 

Welcome back Fin-O!

 

I argue with anyone who wants to pull out win/loss as an argument against a QB. Unless the QB is consistently throwing pick 6s, and fumbling the ball, while the run game is successful, and the oline is blocking well, and the defense is holding teams to low point totals, then win/loss isn't something to judge aQB on.

That being said, when you pull out win/loss record to judge a QB, and then say "But it's not solely a QB stat," I have to ask, and would love an answer, WHY BRING IT OUT? If you are saying it's not a QB stat, then why use it to argue whether the guy is the answer or not? You're trying to have your cake and eat it, too.

 

Didn't answer my question. Does any QB contribute heavily to the W/L column? If so, who? How so?

Tannehill hasn't threaded the needle in either direction. Did our team all of a sudden get much worse after Moore and Tannehill elevated them back to mediocrity?


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Talk about highlighting a single game. He's still done more in his career than Tannehill. Both will meet the same fate though.

This Lions team is us without Miller and Suh.


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There's not many QBs who I think play on a team with as many deficiencies as Tannehill. One QB may have an oline that's as bad, but has a defense that routinely holds teams to under 20 points, and is able to keep the QB in games, even when he's struggling. Another QB might have receivers that excel at running precision routes, and taking 3 yard passes into 20 yard gains. Another guy might have a great surrounding offense, but a defense that is suspect.

Bottom line, I think that QBs, even the greats, get too much credit in wins, and often took much blame in a loss, at least from our fan base. I think that the media gives to much credit to the QB for wins, and when the media favorite QB has an off game, they bend over backwards to make excuses for the QB.

Football is a team sport. A QB still needs his receivers to catch the ball, and run good routes. He needs his line to block. He needs the defense to stop the other team.

 

No one is stating Tannehill is a bad QB. Many of us though do not feel he is the QB who can get the Dolphins to the Super Bowl and that is all that really matters.

He isn't a bad QB, but he also isn't a great QB. He is a mediocre QB who happens to be better than a lot of the bad starting QB's in the NFL.

He will do until a better QB is hopefully drafted in the next few years. Eventually though, fans are going to want more than the mediocre records his QB play helps this team achieve every season.
As I stated earlier, put Brady with this offense and this is a playoff team. With Tannehill, we will be lucky to win 7 games this year.

 

[h=4]I think Tannehill ranks above these QB's

Josh McCown[/h][h=4]Brian Hoyer[/h][h=4]Blake Bortles[/h][h=4]Alex Smith[/h][h=4]Brandon Weeden[/h][h=4]Sam Bradford[/h][h=4]Kirk Cousins[/h][h=4]Jameis Winston[/h]
So I think this makes Tannehill like the 24th best starting QB in the league. Also, if I remove Weeden as a starter and put Romo in then Thill is 25th best QB in the league.

 

Way to be a Tannehill apologist and beat around the bush.

Answer the question. Are there any QBs that heavily influence the W/L column? If so, who? How so?

You can't pretend like Tannehill has the worst situation in the NFL and is severely under appreciated. He has deficiencies, believe it or not.


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Brady or Rodgers with this offense? We are superbowl bound. Any top 10 QB, if they were on this team would make this team a playoff contender.

 

A QB doesn't play in a vacuum, on the field, all by himself. So, when a QB "heavily influences" a game, unless it's by him running the ball himself, then there are other players also making plays in order to "heavily influence" the game.

I have never said that Tannehill didn't have deficiencies.

 

LOL

Delusional.

 

Are you gonna answer the question or not? Can you evaluate QBs on their own?

Answer the question. Are there any QBs that heavily influence the W/L column? If so, who? How so?


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Tannehill is 5-10 since 2013 against the AFC east and your not going to win many superbowls if you can't win in your own the division.
Qb get all the credit when they win and all the blame when they lose.Nature of the beast!Tannehill to me is just another over paid qb just like cutler and staddford.
The lions and bears keep these two around because they don't have anybody better to put in there.
I am very dissapointed in tannehill because I thought this was the year the game was going to slow down for him and take the next step.

 

If I am delusional then millions of Dolphans are as well and the experts on tv too.

 

btw.. one thing that is bucking the trend this year (statistically speaking) is the issue of consistency with Tannehill. It's been pointed out a bunch of times how his passer rating has gone up year after year, but there was something else that improved: consistency. And lack of consistency was one chief complaint many of us had, so the trend towards greater consistency was a good thing.

A simple measure of consistency is standard deviation (std). For passer rating, the std from 2012 to 2014 went from 25.8, 21.4 down to 19.8. For Y/A the std from 2012 to 2014 went from 1.86, 1.61 down to 1.32. Tannehill was becoming more consistent as a QB in those years according to a bunch of measures.

This year something is happening that's different. The passer rating std so far is 36.5!!! And the Y/A std so far is 3.35!!! Most of the difference is due to that one perfect passer rating game because if you take that out (which one shouldn't do with stats) then the passer rating std this year is 23.1 and Y/A std is 1.63. Both are still greater than in 2014 and 2013, but once you correct for the smaller sample size of 6 games, those numbers are within range.

So basically you have two options: 1) use all the data and conclude Tannehill is becoming less consistent this year, or 2) claim that the perfect passer rating game was so statistically speaking abnormal (for Tannehill) that it shouldn't be included in any discussion about Tannehill. Choosing option 2 however means you accept his average performance is between 2012 and 2013 levels, so on average he's worse now.

Well, I don't like throwing away data, so why is Tannehill now less consistent this year when he showed steady improvement in consistency in his first 3 years?

 

So wrong, in every way.

Figures.

Another one bites the dust.

 

Like I've always said and keep on saying, take a look at his performances overall tied to the running game. There's a general correlation and specific game correlations for the most part.


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The article below is from sb nation titled who is the nfls next great qb.
Do you notice who is not even mentioned.Goes to show you what people think outside of the rosey colored glasses on this site.


Much like Manning, Luck has been pegged for greatness ever since he stepped foot into the league. The 2012 No. 1 pick has amassed quite the resume in his first four years in the NFL: Single-season touchdown pass leader, throwing for more than 4,000 yards twice and winning three playoff games. (For comparison's sake, it took Manning until his seventh season to win his third postseason contest.)

But yet, Luck has taken a step back this year. Perhaps a nagging shoulder injury and porous offensive line are to blame, but regardless, Luck suddenly doesn't look ready to join Rodgers' and Brady's league. He's thrown 25 interceptions since 2014, including nine in five games this season.

Given all of the current dysfunction in Indianapolis, Luck may just be a product of his environment. At this point, his overall body of work still points to him ascending up the QB ladder even if he's fallen down a few steps.
Russell Wilson

Entering this season, it wasn't hyperbolic to say Wilson may have had the best three-year start out of any quarterback in history. He's the first signal caller to ever amass a QB rating of more than 95 in each of his first three seasons, and he led all QBs with 10 fourth-quarter comeback drives from 2012-14. Oh, and there was that little 35-point Super Bowl victory over Manning's Broncos as well.

The Seahawks' passing attack has sagged this season -- they've thrown for the fifth-fewest yards in the league -- but Wilson's numbers are still more than respectable. His 69.6 completion percentage would be the highest of his career and he has the eighth-best QB rating in the NFL. Unlike Luck, Wilson will probably never accumulate gaudy statistics, but he's done a whole lot of winning, and ultimately, that's what quarterbacks are primarily judged on.
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Andy Dalton

The quarterback with the highest QB rating this season isn't Rodgers or Brady. It's Dalton, who may finally be entering the conversation as one of the league's elite passers in his fifth professional season.

Of course, the big knock on Dalton is the lack of playoff success. He's 0-4 in January with six interceptions and only one touchdown pass. Until Dalton and the Cincinnati Bengals win in the postseason, his critics will continue to have plenty of ammunition.

But keep in mind, it took Manning four attempts to win his first playoff game. At 28 years old, there's still plenty of time for Dalton to shape his legacy.
Derek Carr

Getting drafted by the Oakland Raiders is usually a curse for a collegiate star, but Carr may have lucked out. As long as Amari Cooper lines up beside him every Sunday, he has a chance to put up some hefty numbers.

Carr has the sixth-highest QB rating among all quarterbacks this season, ahead of Philip Rivers, Wilson, Drew Brees, Eli Manning and Matt Ryan. He has a ways to go before he's considered one of the game's best, but so far he's been the best find in the 2014 QB draft class.
Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota:

It's still too early to tell what the future holds for the No. 1 and No. 2 selections in this year's draft, but both of them have shown flashes of brilliance in their young NFL careers.

Winston is coming off his best game as a professional. Last week, he completed 72 percent of his passes for 297 yards and two touchdown passes in Tampa Bay's disheartening 31-30 loss to Washington. Mariota, meanwhile, famously didn't throw an interception through the first couple of weeks of training camp and he's also completed 63.6 percent of his passes this season.

Both quarterbacks need to develop more and play with better supporting casts if they're to become perennial Pro Bowlers. But they've given their respective clubs plenty of reasons for optimism through the first half of their rookie campaigns.
Jimmy Garoppolo:

The reason why Garoppolo is on this list is almost entirely intangible: He's learning the quarterback craft behind Brady, perhaps the greatest QB of all time. As Rodgers has demonstrated, learning behind a legend may not be glamorous, but it can be a launching pad for success.

Garoppolo broke Tony Romo's record for career pass completions at Eastern Illinois University. The skill set appears to be there, and it's difficult to think of a better quarterback and head coach combination to learn under than Brady and Bill Belichick.
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The Bengals aren't playing second fiddle to the Steelers anymore
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Is Tannehill solely responsible for win loss record? If not, then why bring it up?

 

Aaaaaand...what correlates to the run game? And might also correlate to the passing game?

 

Answer the question. Are there any QBs that heavily influence the W/L column? If so, who? How so?


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I answered your question. You didn't like my answer, because it doesn't support your theory. No QB plays in a vacuum. No QB, ON HIS OWN, is able to make plays with the ball. A completed pass requires a receiver to also do his job. Now, are there some QBs who can fit balls into tighter spaces, or put better touch on balls? Of course. But, at the end of the day, the QB has to do his job, and the receiver must do his job.

 

I just can't put him in tier 2.

Tier 1 is Rodgers and Brady. That's it. Was Manning until He got old. Playoffs every year you didn't care what team they fielded.

Next tier would be Big Ben, Brees for a while, Romo. With a good team can go all the way but prone to missing playoffs. Not saying wins are all on the qb but flashes occasional ability to lift a team on their shoulders and play lights out for an extended period of time.

No way I'm putting Tanny in the same tier as Big Ben and Brees in his prime. He is basically Alex Smith with a lot more arm talent. Smith has hit his ceiling but Tanny may have more improvement

 

Yeah, it's the OL, right? Even when they proved what they could do when Tannehill is clicking on some passes.

He could've bailed them out like Alex Smith did today. Everybody knows they have to hone in on the running game when facing KC. He still bailed them out.


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So you can't isolate and evaluate the QB position?

You can't imagine how much better or worse a team is subbing in and out QBs?


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No, I guess you're right. It makes much more sense that Miller forgets how to run some games.

 

That's not what I said. Always misrepresenting me.

The Pats schemed EXCLUSIVELY against the run. They did that. You're saying the OL went from amazing to garbage.

Somehow Alex Smith bailed out his team today though. But Tannehill can't because his supporting cast is much worse even though his team's record is better or almost the same.


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You are wasting your time, it's like trying to teach a dog to drive.

Why bother?

 

No point in arguing with you your minds made up.I hope your right I really do but I have been watching winning qbs my whole life and they make the team around them better and this guy has proven in college and pros he cannot do that.Tired of all the excuses and my I am done with this post.

 

Nobody is arguing the qb makes all the plays on their own.
Packers without Rodgers was a 4 win team in 2013. 11.5 with him.

The good QBs increase the wins with all other factors being equal. No other player has that impact. JJ watt is head and shoulders the best at his position. Doesn't really help the win total. Brady and Rodgers clearly do.

 

I'm calling out Res in this thread and the advanced stats one.

Answer the question. Are there any QBs that heavily influence the W/L column? If so, who? How so?

If you can't do that, stop arguing with me.


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I don't have the Y/A for running for each game, but I do have total passing yards and total runnings yards for each Dolphins game from 2012-2014. You'll be surprised.. the correlation is nearly zero between passing and rushing yards per game for every year 2012-2014 and in every case it's very slightly negative: for 2012 it's -0.03, for 2013 it's -0.09, and for 2014 it's -0.05.

What that suggests is that it's cherry picking when you find a select few games where total passing yards and total rushing yards are both high or both low. How different the stats are for Y/A (which is a better measure of efficiency) I don't know, but I'll get those stats at some point and do the calculations.

 

Then why is it that Miller and Tannehill had their best seasons the same season?


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I didn't do that across seasons. I did it per season. So the average rushing/passing yards could change as much as you want between seasons and it wouldn't show up in those stats. I only looked at the correlation between rushing vs. passing yards within a season.

When you do it across 2012-2014 seasons, the overall correlation is still -0.05. OK.. so why is that? Well note that while 2014 had the highest average passing and rushing yards, 2013 rushing was less than 2012 rushing while 2013 passing was higher than 2012 rushing.. that will destroy any correlation across years.

 

I don't know if some of the people on this forums are trolls or not. There is no way Tannehill is as good as Big Ben, Romo and Brees lol. IF he was, that Patriots game last Thrusday would of been a heck of a lot closer than 36 to 7.

 

You are eactly right. The Colts with Manning were a SB contender consistently. He missed one year and the Colts suddenly were the worst team in the league.

Elite QB,s make everyone around them on offense better because they consistently make plays. QB's like Tannehill needs everyone else to play at a high level to bring his play up.

The Patriots played this week with two rookies and a backup on the starting offensive line. They have very mediocre WR's and one great TE. They have average RB's, but they happen to have an elite QB who makes this very average offensive talent play at a much higher level.

Tannehill does not have this capability and I don't think he ever will. Those would defend him always want to blame other aspects of the offense or the coaching staff. After over 50 starts in the NFL, we have seen his good and his bad and when you take it all together, you get a mediocre QB and that is exactly what he is as an NFL QB.