Mel Kiper bashes Tannehill

That Tannehill isn't a first ballot HoFer?

So what??

 

Fair comparisons for Ryan include...Andy Dalton, Nick Foles, Sam Bradford, Alex Smith. But the only threads you see around here are his lovers are trying to use Andrew Luck, Russel Wilson and Matt Ryan. It's why these threads get so out of control, about 4 posters on here are THAT unrealistic about Ryan....and the pathetic excuses begin.

I really would love a good Alex Smith Ryan Tannehill debate...they have so many similarities that it could create a solid reasonable debate.

 

That Tannehill isnt good enough to lead a team at this point, which means hes not a franchise quarterback. At best a game manager IF all the perfect pieces are in place.

Why is this so hard for you all to understand is beyond me. Luck and Wilson have been to the playoffs and beyond with a bad offensive line too, and have won playoff games.

And nevermind Luck, we will use Wilson as the example. Wilson was sacked 2.7times per game last year. Tannehill was sacked 2.9 times per game last year.

This year he is getting sacked 4.5 times per game compared to Tannehill's 2.7.

Wilsons best receiver is Doug Baldwin. Wilson isnt accepting excuses, he is finding ways to win period. And i recall all you salty fans here calling out Wilson the firdt three quarters of the NFC championship game and dead silence when Wilson made play after play in the final five minutes last year. You all cant accept this guy is better than Tannehill. And he is that, far, levels above Tannehill.

 

And why did he even have a chance in that game?

When you answer that, maybe you'll understand why Tannehill is being unfairly criticized.

 

Oh well, you, fin d, and that other guy will take tannehill, luck or wilson, which ever name comes out of the hat is fine with you all. Theyre all equal. Got it. The rest of the world would have Ryan as the backup quarterback to Derek Carr.

 

Vert, it's a revolving door of excuses with these guys. No logical response is going to happen. They are either trolling the board in an all time epic way....or are head over heels in love with thinking they have there guy.

The best thing Ryan had going for him is that he is a young QB who despite still being flawed had improved every year he had been in the league. That isn't the case thus far, he looks even worse than he did this time last year....the only hope is that he snaps out of it and plays better than ever. That's not impossible, but as of now? There isn't much to hang your hat on as a fan of Ryan.

 

WTF are you even talking about?

Skip II and the Bayless Bunch are really having a hard time right now it seems.

 

Id still take Ryan over Carr, but it is certainly a debatable topic. In fact? I want to start it, just so I can see one of those guys claim Derek Carr has much better surroundings.

 

From what i learned from you this season it takes you a while to understand things. It wasnt until recently that you hopped off the Philbinwagon. Dont worry, soon you will see what im talking about. Not everyone picks things up fast.

 

So, no comment on what allowed Wilson to even have a chance at coming back in that game? After he played so terribly for three quarters?

 

I want you to read this again, and I want you to scan it for the words "Seattle's defense". You'll notice that you didn't mention them. You also didn't mention the name "Marshawn lynch".

Have...have you ever watched the Seahawks play? That same nfc championship game...the reason wilson was able to make "play after play" at the end was because his phenomenal defense didn't let his ****ty play ruin them for the first 3 and a half qtrs.

I don't care if Wilson's better but don't ****ing dismiss the fantastic situation he's in and compare it to our **** show saying "tannehill sucks, he can't win games like wilson does in seattle".

You think wilson would be doing anything if he were here????????

 

It's like Aaron rodgers went out and hit an imaginary wall I guess. Idk what else might have stopped him.

 

Do you have any comment on me showing you that Ryan has had a better defense and pass protection than Andrew Luck, and yet still wins 33% more games?

 

Andrew lucks the better qb. Congrats. You're amazing. Now...what's your point??? Aaron rodgers is better than alex smith too, should chiefs fans just stop watching football because of it?

 

Terrible reply.

My question was aimed at a guy who actually thinks Ryan is on the same level as Luck. So perhaps you should get more info before stepping in.

 

Again, genius, the first two or three seasons, Luck SHOULD have won more games, if he were on a similar team with weaker opponents, since he was FAR BETTER AND MORE POLISHED coming out of college. Why is that a negative on Tannehill? Why is it you guys want to use the first two seasons against Tannehill? Last year, very similar stats, yet Luck win more games. Why is that? Certainly it had to do with others in the team. How does Luck look so far this season?

You're so hell bent on proving that Tannehill is not good, that you get lost in your own argument.

 

All the same, what's your point? That all must have the same opinion, that tannehill sucks, and then and only then can we...what??? Where does this pissing contest actually lead?

 

Do you agree that a defense could be great for half a season, and terrible for the other half, and still average out slightly better than an average defense?

 

And what did Ryan do in 2014?? He had 8 games better than avg and 8 games below it. Stop with your bs excuses and man up when it comes to this guy. He is a decent QB, but you guys refuse to accept any criticism of him unless it is with a "yeah but"....

What has he actually accomplished in this league? Using a high volume of passing attempts to put up high yardage numbers while making intermediate tnrows is not enough. If he has hit a wall in his development (no he is not a developed QB) then we need to get out of that contract ASAP.

 

Nice misdirection.

 

Yes. All must have same opinion. Tannehill sucks. Why waste your time typing out stuff like that? You mistakingly took a question directed to someone else out of context...no need to keep making these attempts just move on.

 

On what planet is 300 yards passing, 125 passer rating, 11 yards per attempt and another 40 yards rushing "terrible" QB play? If thats "terrible" what word would you use to describe Tannehill's game vs the Jets?

 

Tannehill doesn't suck. Anyone who says that is being ridiculous.

He's a decent QB who won't puke games up, but he also won't elevate the offense on a consistent basis either. He goes as the team goes.

I keep saying this, but he's exactly the same guy he was in college ...... little pocket awareness, but effective when he's throwing those lasers on the curls/comebacks ...... albeit as soon as teams take it away he's neutralized. People are just too easily wow'd by the athleticism.

 

What is up with this seattle/gb game? It was just one game. 97.8 qb rating in the playoffs, 9.0 ypa. Yes, they win superbowls and get into them because of defense, run game, and Wilson's excellent play. He's better than Tannehill. Much much better. Would he win a superbowl here? Hell no. Our team's talent was very overestimated.

That doesn't make him and Tannehill even. Nobody on planet earth thinks Tannehill is better than Wilson, except maybe 1/2 the Dolphins fans. It's not even up for debate.

 

There is still hope for Tannehill. It's not quite time to pull the plug yet. Look at Andy Dalton. If he keeps this up all year he's taken a HUGE step and let's be honest, he was not great until this year. He'd been okay. Sometimes the light switches on in year 4 or 5.

But there's no way Tanny is top 10 right now as some were arguing.

Rodgers
Brady
Manning
Big Ben
Romo
Brees
Ryan
Rivers
Wilson
Palmer
Matt Ryan
Andy Dalton


All but maybe Peyton Manning are playing way better right now. Derek Carr, Tyrod Taylor and Marriota look promising but way too early to choose them over Tanny. But if they all have one good year, they've had as many as Tanny has, and last year was just barely good.

Then you have Cam Newton, Flacco and Eli who some will put above Tanny, some will put behind.

Fact of the matter is, he slots somewhere in between 12-15 and if these young guns get better he needs to as well.

Some said they saw enough out of Tannehill last year to project him top 10 top 8 even. But then you take away two of his top 3 targets, relying on an over the hill WR in Jennings (hey Crabtree is doing pretty well in Oakland) a rookie in Devante, and force feeding Landry who I'm sorry, has had quite a few drops lately eh?

Team is not doing enough to create the environment for success, and Tanny isn't doing that well either with what he has been given.

 

LOL, no. Did you see Brady last season when his OL was terrible?

Even Rodgers would look average behind this line. When you are running for your life on over 40% of your drop backs there isn't much you can do.

Add in a defense that can't stop anyone and no QB in history is going to the Super Bowl with the current play on this team.

 

In 14, Tannehill had a defense give up 30+ points what, 6 times? You guys act like that doesn't matter.

 

Philbin didn't do anything to be fired for until this year. My argument had been was that he isn't horrible, he's average.

And I didn't want him fired this time as a punitive measure, he had to be fired because he lost the team and was too stubborn to change to get them back. Had he made that change and sooner, we'd be looking very different now.

See, you chuckleheads are emotional children who think in extremes. You neglect to realize that the NFL has very few transcendent players and even fewer transcendent coaches. Yet teams without those things win all the time. Its all about finding the right combination. Its not easy, there's no magical formula, there's no manual. Philbin, in the right situation, can win a super bowl. Sparano in the right situation could as well, just like a Billick or a Dungy or a Payton or a Tomlin. All coaches who were at the right spot at the right time with the right players. Honestly, what makes those guys so amazing? Nothing and none of you thought much of any of them until they won.

There's very, very, few Shulas. So to just change a coach without a better option available is stupid unless he's lost the team. The reason its stupid is because everything changes and you're just spinning your wheels. Its ok to take shots on guys that can truly be special like a Saban, or a Malzhan, for example. But to blow everything up and go after JAGs, is like playing the lottery.

And your guys' stupid philosophy extends to QBs as well, that's why you make W/L record a QB stat.

 

I've also given you win loss totals for Tannehill, Wilson, and Brady when they have less than average past ratings. Surprise surprise, Brady and Wilson both have much better records in those games. Meaning, Tannehill can never have an off day. Combine that with a defense that routinely gives up massive scores, and you have a situation where Tannehill had to play lights out, and score 30+ every game...without an oline or run game.

Sounds reasonable.

 

How did I act like that doesnt matter?


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This is your problem. Now you want to mention Tom Bradys name while discussing Ryan.

Stop comparing him to superior Qbs and maybe you wont get so much laughter aimed your way.

Tannehill vs Stafford good debate
Tannehill vs A. Smith good debate
Tannehill vs Cam....ehh maybe

You want people to stop arguing with you about RT? Leave the top level QBs out of this.


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That's stupid.

He's making a point that even the best QBs need the team around them when they struggle. That is a fair point to make and you only don't like it, because it shoots a giant hole in your and your crews' "logic".

 

I don't have a logic, Ryan is having a bad year i'm well aware of his teammates having even worse years nobody has denied that at any point, yet it keeps getting brought up.

Why?


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2 things:

1:

obviously, we knew that already. I suspect you don't have...um..."multiple logics" either.

2: Record and playoffs keep getting brought up by members of the Skip II and the Bayless Bunch, if you don't like it, as their leader, maybe you should do something about it. Some suggestions on how to achieve that....

- You could decree that the only one of you that bring up w/l record or playoffs as a qb stat, is if person is holding the Douche Stone. And then you start with it and never give it up.

- You could try positive reinforcement, and let them be the small spoon once in awhile if they don't bring up records/playoffs

- You could try negative reinforcement and tell them that not only do the lights stay on when you talk about Wallace while you're naked, but they can't look away when you do your one handed "interpretive dance" when you get the part about him being always open...if they bring up records/playoffs.

 

I'm not going to say that ARod would lead us to the SB, who knows, however he would not look average, he has had a poor line almost his entire time starting and he has led the league twice in sacks, and that is with GREAT pocket awareness, 50 in 2009 and 51 in 2012, he finished those seasons with 103 and a league leading 108 QB ratings, not throwing more than 8 INTs in either year and reaching 30 TDs in both years.

Due to Tanne's avg to below avg pocket awareness he would have been sacked 60+ times behind those lines.

 

Lol, in a nut shell, you were WRONG, lol, Philbin lost this team because he is a BAD HC, you were wrong but would never admit it.

 

Did you forget Fin? having an avg D makes your QB worse, lol.

 

Yes, his average record here proves he wasn't an average coach.....on what planet again?

Let me get this straight, record is a QB stat, but not a HC stat. Did this come from the same book that said Suh was the 7th best DT in the game right now?

 

Ryan's not having a good year so far, but if he WAS having a good year, we'd be 2-2 at the most (win vs the Jaguars), not much of a difference.

 

I don't quite understand your MO. You say that wins and losses are not what this conversation is about yet you continue to focus on that, defend Tannehill's winning percentage and by virtue of that refuse to shift the conversation to where you yourself imply it should be.

If this conversation isn't about wins and losses, why aren't you defending Tannehill against the more meaningful criticism that deals with his lack of accuracy, lack of touch, lack of awareness in the pocket, lack of ability to lead WRs, tendency to stare down WRs, inability to look off and/or manipulate the safeties, inability to help get protections set correctly, inability to audible to better plays, inability to get beyond a low YPA even in his better games, his tendency not to run when it's a huge tool in his toolbox, etc.


All of those things pretty much put Tannehill at the bottom of the list when it comes to experienced NFL QBs. Of the 20 or so guys on that list, Tannehill's right near the bottom. Considering some teams have rookies and/or are looking, Miami really looks like the worst out of all teams that claim to have "franchise QBs."


Sometime in the next couple years, Miami is going to have to make a decision as to whether or not to move on and at this point I'm leaning away from Tannehill. I don't think he does enough to be the focal point of the offense and if you're building a team that can run the ball and play defense, you don't need Tannehill for that. Maybe he can be a game manager on a team like that but he doesn't have any play-making ability so why view him as a long-term option?