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Interesting comments from Omar Kelly/Sun Sentinel

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jim1, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Maybe because he's been seen for all of 1 week of practices? :rolleyes:

    What on earth does that statement have to do with anything.
    Is that meant to be some witty backdoor argument to deem Henne as having shown he's proven himself as an NFL player?
    I think that's a pretty weak angle.

    You can also bet that if Beck wasn't here, it would be every errant pass Henne made in practices that would be getting the criticism and Henne would be the recipient of all the pressure Beck is getting.

    How do I know that? Because it's not really about Beck. It's the same crap that happens with all young players. Unrealistic fans freak out on a yearly basis over young players that don't make an immediate impact and the media LOVES to jump all over the "bust bandwagon" as well to keep the controversy stirring.

    Henne is actually very lucky to have Beck in the picture taking the focus off of him.
     
  2. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    If you don't realize that this is the exact reason Beck was considered a red headed step child around here before he ever stepped on the practice field you haven't been paying attention.

    It was only the main story line and the one thing National media as well as local media played to death for a year straight.
     
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  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    And the reason people come to this board is to avoid the national media.
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The point is, you see people posting about Beck (both good and bad) a lot more vociferously than Henne. Just a simple observation.
     
  5. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Again what's the point you're trying to make?

    Are you actually saying that a throng of fans and posters right here didn't grab right on to that line of thinking and share that bias from day one?

    If so you'd be wrong because National media reps that were bashing Miami passing on Quinn for a "leftover" prospect in Beck were qouted quite often on these very boards.

    Are you also going to tell me that sports media dosen't have a profound effect on the opinions of the avg. fan about certain players. Why were so many people on the Brady Quinn bandwagon to beging with? That's right, Hype created by that media.

    So much for the board of free thinkers your trying to sell me here.
     
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  6. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Get to the point of making that "observation".
    You don't have to talk in riddles.
     
  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You make a post with unfounded judgment of Brady Quinn, as an argument against unfounded judgment of John Beck? :confused2:
     
  8. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I never realized making an observation needed a point.
     
  9. texasPHINSfan

    texasPHINSfan New Member

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    the DBs are rotating their coverage on all the WRs during camp. Wilford is struggling against everyone (according to multiple reports, not just this one), not just Will Allen. Bess & Ginn were even catching passes against Allen.

    that's what is prompting my head shaking.
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I wasn't aware that Wilford was in coverage against all the other DB's. I assumed he was up against Allen the whole time. If that is true, that's disappointing.
     
  11. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    When you present an observation as insinuation to a point it is a point.
     
  12. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Give me a break...

    If you go back in time to the NFL Draft in 2007, you'll see how fans reacted when we selected Ted Ginn Jr. over Brady Quinn. No matter what the Dolphins and Cam Cameron did after that point in the draft, fans would not change their mind that day. They drafted John Beck and instantly Beck is the guy that 'Miami passed on Quinn for' and if he's not more successful than Quinn, he'll be a bust no matter what. You talk to anyone outside of these forums and you mention the Miami Dolphins and Brady Quinn in the same sentence, I guarantee you 9/10 of the people that pay attention to the NFL will say that the Dolphins were stupid to pass on Quinn for, as they'll say it, a kick returner.

    Just because you bring up something else that supports your opinion on a topic, doesn't make it wrong. If you think that the battle cry didn't exist or even questioning it didn't exist, I'd like to ask where the hell were you on Draft Day of 2007?
     
  13. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    No I don't. Thats just plain wrong. I want Beck to succeed. I wanted John Dutton to succeed. And Fiedler, and Feeley, and every other QB we've had.

    My favorite player right now Satele. I think he's physical and got a bad attitude. I like that from the C position. But if he screws up in practice and it gets reported, I am not going to go after the reporter.

    Thats the difference between me and the Beck supporters. One cannot even tell the truth about him without being called un-credible and a liar.

    And I find that strange.
     
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  14. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    There is absolutely no judgemental statement about Brady Quinn anywhere in any of my statements.
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    What does that have to do with John Beck's performance in TC??????????
     
  16. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Wrong again. I have never gone after a specific poster. Omar wrote the original report, not me. How did I instigate anything? You should get your facts straight before sounding off.

    My post did not insult. It stated facts. If you find the facts insulting, whose problem is that?

    I like sarcasm just fine. But to say I because I "ROFL" at a sarcastic post that my response "ruins threads" is simplistic and intellectually dull.
     
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  17. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Imagine why the media downplays Beck's mistakes more than the others... Because the media feels that the Dolphins failed on selecting him because they didn't pick Brady Quinn. Simple as that.
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It wasn't in your statement, it was in another's.
     
  19. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Man you love to talk in circles.

    You asked why the Brady Quinn reference was relevant to this discussion and downplayed it as a legitimate reason as to why a bias might have been formed against Beck from day 1.

    It has nothing to do with John Beck's performance in TC but it definitely has a lot to do with the pressure and criticism being leveled on Beck prematurely.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't see see the media downplaying anything.
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You just went after a specific poster. You called him a "Becker"

    You didn't not state facts, you stated opinions.

    Again, those are opinions as well. It is one shared with many people on this board. There really is no reason for your post other than to upset people who think Beck has a shot of being QB in this league.
     
  22. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    And thats precisely where we disagree. You take offense with Beck being criticized. I have no problem with players being criticized when they play poorly, Beck, Henne, Babers, whoever.
     
  23. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Then why on earth would you post this......

    You clearly said I did make a judgemental argument against Quinn, then backtrack and say someone else did. :lol:
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    It was like2god...my apologies.
     
  25. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    I would be interested to see an example of this behavior.. I haven't seen it and "I" look for it... sooo, an example or two or three to cover that BROAD brush you painted everyone who supports John Beck with is in order..
     
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  26. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    I didn't pull Quinn into the argument, it's been the argument against Beck since the very beginning that Cam "Blew it" by passing on Quinn for "his guy" and this poster (SCFF) referenced that by saying that Cam "missed on his QB". Where were you on draft day when the majority of the Dolphin fanbase were out on their ledges ready to jump and booing Cam while he was trying to speak about Ginn? The whole Quinn vs Beck debate was all anyone could talk about for the past year and there are still some people on the "other board" that can't let it die and move on.

    If you want to know where the battle cry exists and want proof, go look up all of the posts from the past year and tell me that you don't see the connection.
     
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  27. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Good post, Like2God. I appreciate the fact that you addressed the issues.

    I do however want to take issue with a few points.

    1) Every Fin fan wants Beck to succeed. How could anyone claim to be a fan of any team and not want the player on the most important position on the team to do well? So, everyone is united on that point.

    But Omar's report was just that...a REPORT about what happened. Beck didn't play well in the two minute offense. All of the sudden, Omar is a liar with an Anti Beck agenda. One player I am really keeping an eye on is Quentin Moses...I liked him in college and I want him to succeed. But I won't hold it against the reporter if I hear that he screwed up in practice.

    2) Of course Beck succeeded in college. But there have been many QBs in general and many BYU QBs in particular, who were great in college but not good in the NFL.

    3) The problem that some have with Beck is that it appears that he is still struggling with the same issues as last season. But let me say this about JB...it could be that he is cut out to be, and will make, a great backup QB. And this is not a slam. If Henne turns out to be outstanding (and I think he might), Beck could be a nice backup, if he will just accept the role.

    4) I didn't bring up Quinn and I don't think he's relevant. I didn't want to pick Quinn at #9. I wanted either the LB from Ole Miss or the DE that went to the Rams. In the second round, I wanted Trent Edwards.

    But again, thanks for addressing the issues.
     
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  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You are the one who mentioned Quinn, you are the one who is making the judgment and comparison.

    SCFF said Cam 'missed on his QB'. While I think its too early to label Beck and a miss, I think its a bit of a reach to say that it was a comparison to Quinn.
     
  29. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Obviously you are not paying attention. Beck has standards to measure up to that most quarterbacks don't... Beck has to be as good or better than Brady Quinn, who was a possibly first overall selection in the NFL Draft. The media will write what sells, not what's true. If you want to be a journalist, be prepared for your writing style to change. You don't write informative writings that are true, you write what sells. Whether it's a half truth article pointing out only the flaws of a subject or just a complete bogus article that is only out to stir the pot. With the article mentioned in the first post, I believe it's half truth that points out only the bad things about Beck.
     
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  30. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Thats because no one goes ballistic when Henne gets criticized.
     
  31. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    and you're wrong.

    I don't have a problem with players being criticized if they play bad.
    Beck does seem to be coming along slowly here early on in TC.

    What I think is stupid is when media and fans take that to the next level with a young player and flat out deem him a failure so early on. I think there's more than enough precedent with past players and the time frame it took them to develop to show how ignorant it is to make those judgements at this point.

    In addition, If reporters show a willingness to magnify one players shortcomings over others then I do have a problem with that as well.
    I think people have given plenty of examples how this is happening with Beck.
    Which leads us back to the whole Brady Quinn situation which provides a documented and viable reason as to why they'd have such a bias.

    In the end Beck is the one that will have to overcome all this.
    If he can he'll be a winner.

    I'll say it again though.
    One thing is for sure.
    Henne is lucky to have Beck here to take all the heat off of him.
    He may really be able to just fly under the radar and be able to progress and learn without the added stress of media and fan firestorms surrounding him.
    Big benefit.
     
  32. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    I don't think so. Now, if he goes in for four games and hes a disaster and next TC hes still not making progress, there will be some moaning about him, to be sure.
     
  33. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Not my battlecry. I am glad that Quinn is in Cleveland. I do with we had Patrick Willis, though.
     
  34. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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  35. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Quinn has had ties to Miami ever since Mel Kiper Jr's first reaction to the Ted Ginn Jr. selection was "Oh...My...God!"

    Like it or not, he'll be tied to Miami for a while, if not the rest of his NFL career.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    In your opinion

    Again, your opinion. There are plenty of people I've spoken with in South Florida who have echoed the sentiments that Beck has played poorly. I'm not saying the bloggers are 100% accurate, but you would figure if Beck was practicing better than reported, there would be one blogger smart enough to capitalize on the one-sidedness of those reports.
     
  37. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    If that happens I'd take the exact same approach for Henne as I am for Beck now.

    I've been around long enough to see how players need time to grow and hone their skills to be successful on the NFL level.
    Of course they don't all make it but my god you have to give them the time to show you if they can or not.
     
  38. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Stringer, its not just Brady Quinn. Its any criticism of any nature aimed at Beck. Some here just won't hear of it.
     
  39. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    That simply isn't true. :pity:
     
  40. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    But who in the national media is posting on this board?
     

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