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Interesting comments from Omar Kelly/Sun Sentinel

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jim1, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you just gone bash my man Beck right in my face?!??!?!

    :shuriken:

    Really it doesn't matter what any of us think. We'll see some live game action soon enough. And it'll be simple for Beck fans/haters.

    Girls Lie. People Lie. Numbers don't.
     
  2. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    This is an example of what I am talking about. Because Omar's Blog outlining Beck's performance puts him in less than a positive light, we know are "not sure how much we believe in (them) anymore".

    I remember when Marino was playing his last couple of years and was just horrible at times. To some, you could NEVER say Marino was horrible. I did anyway, but, I understood the passion in which many defended Marino. He was Dan Marino.

    But John Beck? I don't understand this at all. He has accomplished less than Scott Mitchell, less than Jay Fiedler, less than AJ Feely, less than Damon Huard,...But speak ill even of his PERFORMANCE and your credibility is instantly diminished. Its shocking.
     
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  3. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    You know, Beck was mentored by Trent Green who WAS Mr. Checkdown. A completion is good though unless he is missing open receivers. He has the arm strength, I want to see how the next week progresses.

    Will Allen may just be "That good"... Last year he looked like Surtain in his prime.
     
  4. Lab3003

    Lab3003 Golden era

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    He displayed a LARGE amount of potential during his recruitment into the NFL. He appeared to have all the tools before coming to the NFL. Maybe it isn't Beck explicitly but more his incompatibility with the type of team the Dolphins are becoming. Maybe someone who played @ Michigan can handle to the pressure better? It's all speculative but based on the number of sources, you'd have to rank the QB roster as:

    1. McCown
    2. Henne
    3. Beck

    Something else to think about; Drew Brees took 3x seasons to become a Pro-Bowler. At that point he surrounded himself with the best offensive skill position players in the NFL and has been so since that time. LT, Gates, Bush, Colston, McCallister. Not to mention Brees has been behind some above-average offensive lines.

    Beck could also need more time to develop to the NFL, like Brees did. Unfortunately he won't have the luxury of LT, Gates et al.
     
  5. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not really shocking. The people just want Beck to win. He's a feel good story. Hes a glint of hope. I'm sure we'll jump on the bandwagon of whatever QB gives us wins, but until then, the people like Beck. Its hard NOT to like the guy and want him to win. Its not that complex of a concept. He's the white knight in this thing if you will. Doesn't matter if he's not a proven winner. He's the people's champ right now if you ask me. People want him to win the job really bad. And honestly, he still may do it. Not to give another excuse but its still early.
     
  6. Lab3003

    Lab3003 Golden era

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    Not all completions are made equal. A 20 yrd completion is ALWAYS better than a checkdown.
     
  7. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Unless there is 12 seconds left in the game, no time out, and the receiver who caught the 20 yard pass didn't get out of bounds.
     
  8. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Well, every QB ever drafted in the first two rounds showed GREAT potential in college and at combines. Some just don't have the "it" factor that transfers to the NFL game.

    I agree with you on the QB ranking at present. It could still change, but right now, I think thats what we have.

    As for the Brees comparison, Brees went through the normal progression of young QBs. Some great plays, some horrible, showed flashes of progression. His passes were mostly sharp. I don't know that we can say the same for young JB right now...although, I will withhold judgment until I've seen Beck play in the PS games. If he doesn't do well there, IMO, I will have seen enough, at least in terms of him being a starter.
     
  9. Lab3003

    Lab3003 Golden era

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    and scored a TD? :tongue2:
     
  10. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    We all want Beck to win (just like I want Parmele and Thomas and Murphy and Lionel Dotson to win). Every player is a feel good story. Beck, IMO, is no different. Can you imagine the story if Parmele becomes perennial 1400 yard RB? What a story that will be. But no one freaks out if you criticize Parmele, regardless of how few practices and the fact that hes a rookie.

    I agree that Beck is the White Knight. And thats what is shocking. Its more than hes NOT a proven winner....hes the opposite. I agree that He IS the people's champion...my question is why? I agree that people want him to win the job really badly, I would say extremely badly! Why not just root for the best QB? Its early for all of the QBs, not just Beck.

    It the fans love affair with Beck that to me remains utterly shocking.
     
  11. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I doubt that you can compare Parmele to Beck. Non-Dolphins know Beck. Beck has been in some talk for the QB job for some time. They have Dolphin fans that still don't know who the heck Parmele is yet. Especially with him sitting behind Ronnie and Ricky, I doubt there is a HUGE Parmele following. We have Ronnie...who really thinks Parmele is gonna put up 1400 yards from the 3 spot?

    And its hard to root for the best QB if you don't know who the best QB is. Its like rooting for the bad guy in a guy ritchie movie. Can't do it until you figure out who the bad guy even is.

    No one is going to root for McCown that much because hes from another team and is a vet we've seen. Hes really blah. Sure we'd be happy if he panned out but we'd rather it be Henne or Beck. Depends on what you want in a QB. People are naturally going to take sides. The beeching and moaning is simply a reaction to that.
     
  12. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    Yeah, that's true. My memories of Danny are of me holding my breathe everytime he tried to throw a sideline out pass. Those passes would just float out there like balloons.

    It's strange how there is such a strong band of Beck supporters, it's almost something beyond football or pro sports. Personally I always thought that Sage looked like he was MUCH more promising a prospect than Beck.

    Just the way that Beck handles interviews to me is a red flag. I remember that 1st interview on the radio with Joe Rose, where Joe called him at home the day after he was drafted. Rose loved his attitude, but my impression was totally the opposite. Compared to those old clips of Elway and more recently Rothlesburger and Cutler. There is a very noticable difference...
     
  13. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Sigh....

    I'm sick of this discussion but I will add this.

    I don't know one person from these discussions that think Beck "is a white knight" and are "blindly assuming" he's going to be a good QB.

    People question the "credibility" of you guys who have made end all judgements about Beck already based on the very young stages of his career.
    There are some of us who realize the development process of young players.
    We know that Beck has some strong points that could develop him into a good NFL player. Seeing that and acknowledging the undeniable fact that minus very rare players like Marino, young players take time to develop we take a wait and see approach.

    That's it. If those of us that decide to realize this fact and be patient to not give up on a young player before they get that develpment time then so be it call us "homers". It's a far cry from the truth however.

    Tiring having to explain the process of young player development to people expecting "instant Pro Bowlers".
     
  14. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Because on Omar's report, Beck never threw a touchdown, while the PBP blogger (Volin?) reports that Beck did indeed throw a TD.
     
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  15. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    Isn't it?
     
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  16. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That development process is why I dont think Henne has a real shot to start the first game. I WANT him to sit a while. Beck really should be sitting too, although I am pulling for him somewhat. Very few QBs have a clue their first year, and some even the second year. I will be OK with whom ever they start. I might as well like it............................
     
  17. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    I wanted us to draft Owen Schmitt FB from WVU. But, we didn't. :no:
     
  18. mullingan

    mullingan New Grandbaby Pic!!!

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    Summed up nicely. Good Post
     
  19. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe it is his reporting. Why? Well when they discuss qbs, and say Henne did better, but was it with teh same team ala 1st team vs 1st team? Why ist it Beck did bad with the description Holliday came clean around long or Crowder came clean thru teh middle Beck thru checkdown. Yet Henne or McCown thru nice pass with no mention of pressure or no pressure being mentioned.
     
  20. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well there ya go, no more debate needed. Beck is probably a bust because someone here said so. Yeap end of discussion and how dare any of us actually believe that a young inexp qb should be given any time to dev and should have not 1 mistake or a bad couple days learning. Silly me, good qbs never had to learn and dev. What was I thinking?
     
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  21. THCMAN

    THCMAN New Member

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    :pointlol:

    I think that's exactly what he meant by 'so sensitive'. :shifty:
     
  22. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Your comments on Parmele are making MY point. You had made reference to what a "great story" John Beck was/is. Parmele would be a much better story if he ran for 1400 yards for all the reasons YOU mentioned. Thanks.

    As for rooting for the best QB, I see your point, I guess. But why not just root for whomever is labeled the best by the staff. If Beck gets criticized, EVER, by anyone, some here lose their breakfast. They can't take it. They won't believe it. They will demonize the SOB that dared to make such a criticism.

    Your reasons for not rooting for McCown are curious. Who cares if he's from another team? He plays for us now. And he has had some VERY good games. Better than Beck can even dream of having (based on what we've seen so far from Beck). So we won't root for a guy that we didn't draft but has proven he can play in this league and we will root for a guy that we did draft but hasn't proven he can play in this league...:no: Only in Miami does this happen.
     
  23. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Yep, I agree on all points.
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The thing about the bold part is the fact that it is not true. It is making something up to try to prove a point.

    As for the second part, McCown has also looked worse in a few games than Beck can even dream of having based on even his horrible performances. It is easier to believe a rookie in his second year can get it rather than a 6th year player who has not gotten it yet.
     
  25. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Take up the "white knight" comment with the one who originally made it.

    Take up the "end all" opinions about Beck with those who have said that he decisively sucks with no chance at improving. That certainly isn't me. I've always said that he could improve (and I'll add...he damn sure better).

    Young players do take time to develop. Beck does seem behind some others though (T. Edwards jumps out).

    But your defense is not relevant. Its one thing to say, "Wow. Beck had another horrible day today, but lets give him a couple of seasons". Thats what you claim you people are saying.

    And if fact, its not. It is, "Omar reported that Beck was bad in practice today, so Omar must be a liar an have an Anti Beck agenda". Thats the reality of how you guys are reacting.

    And thats what I am commenting on and thats what I find unbelievable.
     
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  26. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    It was a good post, except his defense was wrong.
     
  27. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    :sidelol: I don't think I need to elaborate anymore than this on how hysterical the "Beckers" react to any criticism of their Messiah.
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is an over simplification. Omar did not report one bad practice and all of a sudden has an anti-beck agenda. He has some reports where Beck had a bad practice when there have been multiple reports from other sources that he had a good practice.
     
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  29. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Exactly!:up:
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    it is posts like these that ruin forums
     
  31. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    I don't think McCown has played much worse than Beck. If so, please point to me the game you referring to.

    Oh, and the bold part of your post is not only true, its ABSOLUTELY true. Read PhinishLines comments.
     
  32. SuncoastFinsFan

    SuncoastFinsFan Banned

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    Pardon me? Did you read this from PhinBeck?

    [I[SIZE=]]Well there ya go, no more debate needed. Beck is probably a bust because someone here said so. Yeap end of discussion and how dare any of us actually believe that a young inexp qb should be given any time to dev and should have not 1 mistake or a bad couple days learning. Silly me, good qbs never had to learn and dev. What was I thinking?
    PhinBeck is offline Add to PhinBeck's Reputation Report Post Reply With Quote[/SIZE]
    [/I]

    No serious retort. Just sarcasm. Nothing to add. No critical thought and yet my response to him is the kind that "ruins forums"? Surely you jest. Why did you not comment on PhinBecks post? Probably because you agree with it.
     
  33. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    Well instead of going after just phinbeck you go after all who mention any support for beck. That is a cheap trick and tactic.
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    For one you are the instigator that started to actually going after posters instead of ideas about football players. So generally go after instigators than repliers.

    Plus your post was nothing but an insult and also did the fun nickname thing that does nothing to help a debate AT ALL.

    Plus, there is nothing wrong with sarcasm.
     
  35. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Yes I am a Beck supporter, I support all of our players until they prove to me that they don't deserve it.

    It has absolutely nothing to do with being sensitive to criticism, it has everything to do with the way the criticism is directed at a player and whether or not a writer is being fair. After reading Omar for a while now it is very apparent that he already has his mind made up and that he can't bring himself to be objective. Like I said before, he already penciled McCown in as the starter a while ago even though the FO and coaching staff have said that they haven't made up their mind and are going to evaluate each player fairly.

    There is a way to report what you see and a way not to report it, a reporter's bias comes through loud and clear when he reports things and prefaces his comments like this....

    "and the pro-John Beck camp isn't going to like what they hear, so if you are pulling for the BYU product don't read any further, and don't read any other practice reports. Just imagine they had the day off."


    Funny he didn't do that with other players, just the one that he has singled out for a while now.

    Not really, he is a talented player who did very well in college and many very knowledgeable and credible talent evaluators (Cam, Martz, Ireland, Sparano, Jaws, Young, Wolf)) have said that he has what it takes to make it in the NFL. Not really hard to understand why people want to see what he can do.

    And does a surrounding cast not matter to a QB's play? We had a pretty good offensive line early on last season but by the time Beck saw any action the OL took a big step back and some of the biggest weapons on the team were either injured (Ronnie), traded (Chambers), misused (Ginn) or lost their motivation to play (Booker). How is a young QB, a rookie mind you, supposed to show anything when defensive players are in the backfield before the offensive play develops? Once the ball is snapped is it the job of the QB to block the defensive players? How is a young QB supposed to shine when the best offensive weapons on the team aren't playing (keep in mind that our best players were still in the middle of the league)? Once the ball is snapped is it the job of the QB to get open, run routes and catch the ball?

    Keep in mind that the original plan was to keep Beck on the bench for the year to learn just like Rivers in SD, but because of the injury to Green and the ineffective play of Lemon Beck was forced into action. He was never properly prepared by the coaching staff, he didn't get practice time with the first team offense to build chemistry and the offense was very bland because of injury and lack of talent. How was he supposed to play?

    Because we don't know that yet. Anyone who thinks that they can properly evaluate a player after 4 games under those conditions is way too impatient. Rarely does a player step right into the NFL and dominate, it takes time and patience to develop young talent, something that Beck isn't being given by his detractors.

    We are a rebuilding team and we have a duty to develop our young players and give them a chance to show us what they can do. We have plenty of time to see what Beck is capable of.

    Cam is known for his work in recognizing and developing young QB's, one look at the players that he has groomed should remove any doubt whether or not he is "clueless" in that area. That is what he is known for and that is something that his peers have credited him with.

    Cam's problem last year was the fact that he was A) inexperienced and B) he spread himself too thin by trying to be the HC and the OC. He is a great OC and that is why we wanted him, the only problem is to get him in Miami we needed to make him the HC. Pulling double duty meant that the offense wasn't as effective and innovative as we all had hoped and we struggled because of that and injuries.

    Keep in mind that Cam wasn't the only one that saw alot of talent in John Beck, Mike Martz (another QB and offensive guru) was trying hard to get Beck before being overruled by the Detroit FO. Plus we weren't the only team that passed over Brady Quinn, if Cleveland hadn't been able to trade up he very well might have been there in the early 2nd round. And what has Quinn shown in the NFL to warrant such praise?

    Nothing
     
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  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Funny there aren't debates like this about Chad Henne
     
  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Who in the world ever brought up Brady Quinn?
     
  38. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Give it time, if he doesn't play like a probowler in his first 4 games then you'll see the same sort of vitriol.
     
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  39. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    He insinuated that Cam "missed" on "his" QB selection, which is always the battle cry of the fans that thought that Brady Quinn should have been our pick and Cam bypassed him.
     
  40. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You just pulled Brady Quinn into the argument. If you could please show me a thread in which this battle cry existed I would really like to see this.
     

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