I've said it in who knows how many emails, texts and boards today but I am sad to see Manny go because it was great/fun watching him play for the Red Sox from 2002 to June 2008. For whatever reason he became a giant pain in the butt and I think he was a big concern with the FO that Manny would quit on the team like he did in '06. The way this trade happened reminds me of '04 and Nomar. It's extremely similar. Yes Manny is a HOFer and great hitter and he will be missed but the Sox don't need his attitude right now. He's become a distraction and it was time for him to go. Good luck in LA Manny but I'm sorry got became a giant a-hole for the past 2 weeks and really for no reason. Anyway yeah Hansen and Moss are no loss, Hansen was dead to me and I really don't think he'd ever become what scouts thought he would out of college. Moss is a nice player but he's a dime a dozen and he'd only be a 4th OFer for this team. I like Bay, I think he'll do well here but Sox fans need to remember that Bay isn't Manny, just like Orlando Cabrera wasn't Nomar.
OC came up big for you guys, both defensively and offensively if I remember correctly. Can't complain about the ultimate results at least. Maybe Bay will turn out similarly, though I obviously can't root for it lol.
That's my only point. People are way to quick to kill this trade (much like the Nomar one). Let's just wait and see how it plays out. Sometimes it's not the team that adds the superstar that wins in the end.
One more thing I can almost guarantee you that the Sox front office met with players privately and asked whether they would welcome a trade to get rid of Manny (again much like they did with Nomar). This is an extremely smart FO, they know what they're doing and know more about this than any of us here. Also remember they have put up with Manny for years before this and kept him, obviously they felt like they needed to let him walk.
Big Papi's opinion would be the decisive one I would think. If you get any inside scoop on this stuff, I would love to know.
I totally agree. We all loved Manny but he was becoming a big distraction. Bay may not be the hitter Manny is and who knows how he will do in the Boston spotlight but atleast we won't have to hear Manny whine about not wanting to be here anymore. Bay is also under contract for next year at 7.5 million which is nice.
I have to disagree again. This is nothing like the Nomar situation. Nomar was always injured, an error machine at SS, and the numbers offensively were not there. OC was a great trade for us. It was a bonus that he was a beast in the playoffs. Manny is still one of the best right handed hitters in the league. Bay sucks balls too. A). He has to learn to play the Green Monster (Manny was an expert). Manny is underrated in the field. When he screwed up, it was always goofy. But he wasn't god awful and never hurt the team (ppl make it sound like he was Lugo). B). He hits left handed pitchers as if he was swinging with an imaginary bat. Manny is going to love the N.L. and enjoy the playoffs. We are not. This did not help us. I'll be more then happy to eat my words, but let's be realistic. We're not in the playoffs anymore and we downgraded our team in the short term and maybe more. Not unhappy with getting Hansen out though. The one ray of nitelight light in the whole deal... Bring on next year.
I think Bostons FO has some major ####s. I'm not sure what to think of the deal(good or bad).What made this season of "Manny being Manny" any different then in years past?(serious question guys) I sure am curious to see how Joe Torre deals with Mr.Ramirez,I don't see Joe putting up with Mannys antics.I do like Bay,but like you guys said he's not Manny.I'll admit for selfish reasons I wish you guys didn't trade him so we could met again in the playoffs,I'm not saying we still won't,I just wanted to see Manny in your line-up.This trade might inspire the rest of the Sox to try to win it all without Manny.Good luck the rest of the way boys and hope to see you guys in the playoffs.
Nomar was coming off of a 28 HR, 100 RBI, 300 BA, 345 OBP, 524 SLG, 820 OPS in 156 games played in 2003. Those are huge numbers for a SS. He was actually very productive in 2004 when he played with the Sox. Yeah he was always an injury risk and wasn't a very good SS but he was the SS for the Sox in '03 that came within a brain fart by Grady Little from getting to the WS (and probably winning it). Anyway my point about Manny and Nomar is that the situation is somewhat similar in that both Nomar and Manny lost the clubhouse. They stopped playing for the team and playing for themselves instead. People point to the game where the Sox played the Yankees in 04 when Jeter dove into the stands to catch a ball while Nomar was sitting on the bench but what about Friday nights Sox/Yankees game when Joba was pitching and Manny had a 'knee injury'. Neither guy was playing for the best of the team. Both had to go. Yeah the OC trade was great for us, but why can't the Bay trade be good for us too? Seriously, just give it some time and see how it plays out. If for some reason Bay sucks, what can you do? He was the best available and it was clear Manny was no longer with the team.
I'll try my best but Manny came into the season in a great mood, talking with reporters etc (which he NEVER did in Boston), he was joking with everyone and really being a model ball player. He mentioned numerous times he wanted to stay with the Sox for the rest of his career and how much he loves the team, city, fans, teammates etc. When asked about his options he said whatever happens happens but he hoped that the FO would pick them up. This went on from the first day of Spring Training until mid June. From there Manny just got weird, once Ortiz got hurt Manny wanted to DH and said his legs were hurting him, then he pushed a Sox official because he wanted more tickets to a game in Houston. From there he started going off about how John Henry and the FO lied to him and all they did was lie to players (which pissed off Henry). From there he started demanding trades, them to just release him, not pick up the options, he sat a few games because he was too hurt to play. Everything just snowballed. I have no idea what happened inside his head, whether Scott Boras (his new agent since Dec of '07) got in his ear or what but he became a big distraction in the clubhouse. The Red Sox are EXTREMELY worried that Manny would sit out the restof the season with some kind of injury (like he did in 2006) and the team just felt the relationship was too damaged to repair and that they had to make this move.
Not sure if anyone is watching the Red Sox pregame show but Gordon Edens reported that after the series with LA, the team was boarding a bus to go to the airport to go to Seattle and Manny was refusing to get on and wanted to be released or traded right there and then. It took a few of the players to convince him to get on the bus and from there Manny got an injuried knee (telling different people it was the left or right knee that was hurting- hence the Sox FO making him get an MRI on both of them).
Bay went 1 for 3 with 2 BBs and 2 runs scored. He got a big triple in extra innings and scored on Jed Lowrie's infield single. All in all a good debut. The fans gave him a huge ovation which was nice to see.
I thought Bay did a great job for his first game. I already think that we got better defensively and I know we got faster in base running. We will see how he does from here on out tho.
Only got to see the highlights but so far so good. I listened to a bit of the game for Manny stories but nothing. Lowrie looks like he is playing decent lately, and Pedoria is just a stud now. I don't know how anyone could not like that kid.
Yeah that was very nice of the Fenway Faithful giving him that standing O. You could tell it really touched him. Hopefully the fans are smart enough to realize he isn't Manny and they aren't expecting it. But I think Bay will fit in just fine with the team now.
I talked to someone with inside info with the Red Sox, basically told me nothing new in terms of what's been in the papers. Basically the feeling in the locker room was that Manny quit on the team and didn't care. The Sox were extremely worried that he was going to pull a '06 and either shut it down completely or he'd only play 5 times a week and continue to ask out of the line up with 'injuries'. I was also told that there was a lot more behind the scenes stuff that Manny was pulling that turned the veterans off but the person wouldn't get into exactly what. The general feeling in the FO is Bay was the best available player that the team could realistically get without giving up the farm and someone that could help the team on the field and in the locker room (the team called Colorado to see what it would take to get Holliday but basically hung up the phone when they were told who the Rockies wanted, I asked who they asked for and was told 'they asked for Clay Buchholz for Brian Fuentes so use your imagination for Holliday and then add 2 more prospects to that). The key to the deal was that Bay is under contract for '09 as well and cheap too that way if Bay shows he can play in Boston they team could resign him, if not they can let him go, collect the draft picks and by that time Lars Anderson, Ryan Kalish, or Josh Reddicker could be ready to step in. So there you go.
I have listened to tons of sports-talk radio, and still I don't think the public realize the level of whackyness that Manny being Manny had got too. Francona couldn't sleep, the team was covering for him, the guy was doing everything he could to be traded. To me the fact that we could get a player like Bay is great, because it could have been much worse, we could have Coco Crisp or Brandon Moss in left. Two, everyone in the nation thinks they know Sox prospects, better than Sox fans. Craig Hansen although he could become a great pitcher has been trash for the Sox, they brought him up too early and he was done in a Sox uniform. Brandon Moss may also turnout to be a pretty good player but are you gonna play him in left next year, NO, centerfield is Ellsbury/Crisp and rightfield will be Drew's for 3 more years. Brandon Moss type players will have a hard time breaking into a lineup like the Sox. Three, keeping a player for draft picks sounds great, but most teams can't sign there picks and if they do are awful at drafting. So if you get 2 supp. picks and you can't sign one and the other is bust you gained nothing.
Yeah you pretty much nailed everything. especially the draft pick parts. Draft picks are nice but you never know whether the picks will turn into Clay Buchholz or a Craig Hansen.
1. Lars is 1st baseman, not an OF. Youk has first down pat and Ortiz is the DH now and will be for a while. Lars is not going up to Boston for a bit. 2, Kalish is a leadoff guy. We have two right now (Jacoby will hopefully get his act together). Josh Reddicker has OK power, but nothing that blows me away. Not better (overall) then anyone on our current starting roster. Those 3 guys don't have an immediate future with the Sox unless injury plays a big role in the future. As for Brandon Moss... Yes, he had no place for the time being. However lets not forget that JD drew is known for his injuries as much as production. Crisp is garbage, why do you even mention him? He's not long for Boston. He wanted out this year, next year will be no different. Hansen, someone hit on the head. He was called to early and his days were numbered. Don't care about him. I don't dislike Jason Bay. If he were a FA signing, I would be happy. However we gave up far to much, period. We didn't need to trade Manny. He tried to kill the trade... He was willing to play out 08 and be done. We get a pick. Don't feed me the line "we could draft a bust." True. We could. Or we could get a Dustin Pedroia (a supp pick)... I mean, it's not like our FO can't draft for ****. This deal was dumb... Try to justify if it makes you feel better. But I'm not going to to accept that we HAD to move Manny or all was lost. It wasn't... We gave up one of the best RHH in baseball, a very good prospect, a supp draft pick (basically), and we're paying Manny to dominate in the N.L. Oh, and Manny tank a contract year? Give me a break. He wants 4 years, 100 million. He's not laying down 08. Don't be ridiculous. Stupid trade.
1.) I realize Lars Anderson is a first baseman, the person's point was that at the end of '09 Anderson could potentially be up and therefore they can let Bay walk (since Anderson would replace Bay's power). 2.) Again the point is that both Kalish and Reddick could be up by 2009. Both are young and scouts really like them and project them to be very good MLB players. And of course neither guy is better than anyone on the roster right now, they're both 21 years old. 3.) All 3 guys will probably get a good look at during spring training next year and I wouldn't be shocked that Anderson and possibly Reddick get a cup of coffee with the team in '09. 4.) Drew, knock on wood, has been pretty healthy since the Sox signed him. Sure he's sat out games the past few years but we've been lucky with him. IF Drew went down with an injury Moss would get called up but he wouldn't get most of the starts, Coco would. And I never mentioned Coco once, so I don't know where you got that from. Bottom line is Moss had no future with the Sox. 5.) As for the trade, YES it had to be done. Players on the team, the manager, and FO all felt like Manny was a problem. You or even I have no idea just how much it was. I don't know how you can say they should have kept him or why you'd want him still on the team. He quit on the team in '06 (which I admit it wasn't a big deal to me at the time because the team was done anyway) and there was legit fear he was going to do it again. He sat out in 2 big games vs. the Yankees and was claiming he was injuried (which is impossible to prove if he was telling the truth or not). Who's to say the guy wouldn't keep up his attitude? Because he said he wouldn't after he was traded? It's called covering your butt. He was begging the FO to trade him, they did. Believe it or not it was for the best and had to be done. And how can you say he wouldn't tank the year? The guy was probably faking a knee injury (he forgot which knee was hurting him for god's sake) and sat out against tough pitchers. He wouldn't even get on the team bus to go to Seattle. Do you really want someone like that on your team? Yeah Manny is a great hitter but the team couldn't count on him. And with the pick, the picks aren't a sure thing, for every Dustin Pedroia, there are a million guys that flame out and become nothings. You never know with draft picks and yes you mentioned the FO has a good track record of good picks recently, but even so they've had a few stinkers in there too. It's too hard to predict. You talk about the future, ok let's say the Sox keep Manny and let him walk after next year, who plays LF in '09? Moss? Sign Dye or the other OF free agents? No thanks. Bottom line is the FO was right, Manny needed to go. I'm not just saying this stuff to justify anything or to make myself feel better. I've heard first hand information from people in the Sox front office, people who know more about baseball than you and me.
Click, Click, crap this isn't good. Give Papi a day off, but this isn't the best news. Maybe it clicked back into place on that groundout.
Does anyone else feel like hiring a hitman to take out Eric Wedge and the rest of the Cleveland bullpen (minus Perez) after today's beautiful 9th inning?
Oh god.. That was pathetic. So what do you think of Lowrie? I don't know much about his potential upside, but I really like him so far. And How about Tim Wakefield? He's been consistently solid all season. It's a crime he's got a sub 500 win percentage.
I think Lowrie is writing Lugo's ticket out of town. He's a pretty solid player, switch hitter, good gap power but isn't a big HR guy (I bet he'll hit maybe 10 to 15 a year), he doesn't have a lot of speed but it looks like he's a solid defender. He's not going to make the flashy play like some other SS but he catches everything that's hit to him. It doesn't look like he has a very strong arm but again he makes the plays and that's all you can ask for. I like him, everyone says he's a Bill Mueller type player and I definitely see that. There's no way Lugo should play over him when he comes back from his injury. With that being said it's going to be tough deciding who stays between Lugo and Cora (especially in October if the Sox make it). Lowrie doesn't project into a star but he should be a solid player, I think he's another Pedroia type. Wakefield is funny, every year you see him and say to yourself, why is he still here, he's old, you never know if he's going to have a good game or not but he's very important to the team. He's solid, he gives them innings and he's a work horse. Back in 1995 when the Sox signed him who would have thought he'd be here in '08? He's done it all for the Sox (closer, starter, set up guy, long man, middle relief) and never once complained. Good guy to have around. I admit I wish we had a sexier option to replace Wakefield (like if Buchholz puts things together and the Sox go out and sign Ben Sheets for example) but Wakefield makes peanuts and has that life time contract so I expect Wakefield to be back. Which isn't a bad thing at all.
I wonder how serious they are with Giles. He's exactly the type of hitter Theo likes but I also think they did it to block the Rays and Angels. I do doubt Giles comes to Boston though.
Well the word is they are very serious becuase of injury concerns to Mike Lowell and David Ortiz. Also he has a partial no trade clause and Boston is one of the teams he can block a trade too.
Lowell, if you saw the game last night was in pain. His swing was waaaaay off. Couldn't notice it when he was on the field, but in the batters box... He is hurting!
I dont really the Angels as having interest in him. The OF is already too crowded. I think trying to block the Rays makes sense though. Wonder if Giles will veto?
I don't know, his no trade is limited to 10 teams and Boston was one of them, not sure why or if it was up to him at the time he signed the contract. Maybe if the Sox would pick up his option for next year but I doubt they would want to pay him $11 million as a back up OFer. We'll see in less than 48 hours I guess.
