If you're talking about me that's a serious mischaracterization of my post and is intellectually dishonest. If not, then carry on.
One of the byproducts of "throwing/reading a QB open" is YAC. Mike Wallace was never a great YAC player, but he was decent at it with Big Rape for 2010 & 2011. Black = Steelers, Aqua = Dolphins 2010: 364 yac 2011: 493 yac --------------------- 2012: 276 yac 2013: 291 yac 2014: 251 yac What happened in 2012? Did Big Rape become a worse QB in 2012? Did he have trouble, all of sudden, throwing Wallace open? Or, as has been said, did things change when the Steelers went to a more timing based offense and Wallace has trouble running clean and precise routes that are vital to the effectiveness of a timing based offense? The numbers between 2012 and his years are pretty similar after all. It doesn't really stop there either as Wallace's 2012 stats are right inline with his 2013 & 2014 stats...across the board. Now, why am I focusing on Wallace? Because he's the only WR Tannehill has had that has been capable of even decent yac other than Landry. Hartline, Bess & Gibson all sucked mightily at gaining yac. They were not fast nor could some stay on their feet with the ball in their hands. Landry? 443 yac last year. Before I get blasted....again......for the 1000th time....by the same posters.....I'm not saying Tannehill is great at throwing people open. I'm saying he isn't terrible at it. He's average. When he has average or better talent at receiver, his numbers look better, when he has Hartline & Gibson his numbers look bad. Wallace was average at yac, but he was below average at running routes. So that made him a below average yac WR here and in 2012 in Pitt. If Tannehill was great at it, he could make horrible yac receivers look somewhat better at getting yac. But he's not great, he's average, which is ok and not a huge area of concern, imo. If our QB was Marino playing in his offense (which wasn't a timing based offense) Wallace would have HoF numbers, because the route didn't matter in the offense Marino played in...all that mattered was getting open. If Tannehill was his QB in a similar offense to Marino's or the Steelers pre 2012, Wallace's numbers would have looked similar to 2010-2011 but probably less, as Big Rape has a stronger & more accurate arm deep than Tannehill. P.S. An improved oline, will also help this, as having time to throw is vitally important to the entire passing game, let alone throwing receivers open. Disclaimer: The author of this post is not saying Tannehill is the greatest QB ever nor is he making excuses. He is simply pointing out the specific issues faced by Tannehill with the specific players he's had to play with. The author is also not saying that Tannehill has no flaws in his game. The views contained in this post are exclusively that of the author and do not reflect the opinions of the thephins.com, its employees or its sponsors.
The skill that Tanne lacked with Wallace was accuracy, to get the most out of Wallace you need to be accurate, Wallace was running wide open and Tanne would miss him, last year only 29% of the passes beyond 20 yards were catchable for Wallace, unlike Stills, who had 70%. Wallace does not have a problem with separation, so he did not need to be read open, he just needed to be hit with the pass, Wallace had the 2nd lowest drop rate among the Fins WRs behind Landry, Wallace had 3 drops, in fact, no player besides Miller had more than 4 drops. Yac has more to do with QB accuracy than anything, delivering the ball to the player so that he can make a play, that's a huge reason why no one has YAC playing with Tanne, which is the reason for Tanne's routes, slants and comebacks, throwing to the middle of the field or a stopped WR, Lazor drew back the offense to fit Tanne's skill set.
And again, in our offense you do not throw to the receiver, you throw to a spot. Wallace wasn't where he needed to be, so what you have is Tannehill trying to (with too much pass rush thanks to the oline after Albert went down) in very little time change and react to the player instead of throwing to a spot. That's easier to do 15 yards and under away, its another thing entirely over 20 yards. WADR, you guys consistently ignore this. For example, I brought it up in the previous post, and you ignored it completely. i've posted this graphic before: And it gets ignored. It was pointed out that Wallace had the SAME EXACT issues with Big Rape in 2012, and it gets ignored. KB made numerous posts with graphs and charts and photos pointing out not only how bad Wallace is at running routes and how that negatively impacts a timing based offense...and they are ignored. CK even made a long incredible post or two about how Wallace has an actual issue tracking the ball in the air and it gets ignored. Its also been pointed out that if you remove Wallace from the equation, Tannehill's long ball is league average, but that also gets ignored. What ends up happening, is that you guys make the same declaration "Tanny sucks at the deep ball/Tanny is inaccurate with the deep ball/Tanny needs serious work with the deep ball/etc.", then the above things are explained and instead of discussing any of that in a meaningful way, they are either ignored or just called "excuses", and then you guys just repeat the same, "Tanny sucks at the deep ball/Tanny is inaccurate with the deep ball/Tanny needs serious work with the deep ball/etc."as if those things were never explained. Here's the thing, if you just think that Tannehill is inaccurate and that there is nothing more to it than it being Tanny's fault, that's fine, I don't care. But if you want to have a discussion about it, which you seem to, then stop ignoring the counter points or just out of hand writing them off as "excuses". Why not disprove them? Why not counter with different observations or stats?
No it to mention, I haven't heard people question Tannehill's short and medium accuracy. So, you sit here, telling us he can't throw guys open cause he's inaccurate, but I dont think that's true. When most people think yac, I bet they're thinking about guys catching a 6 yard pass, and turning it into a 15 yard pass. I bet most aren't thinking about the guy catching the 45 yard bomb and turning it into a 65 yard bomb.
Stop with all these facts and guru analysis to back them up. Doesn't matter. Omar Kelly and Orlando Sh*tzugary think he can't throw the deep ball, so he can't throw the deep ball.
You make charts and graphs to lend credibility to your OPINION, because that's all those graphs are, your opinion, Wallace is NOT a bad route runner, you are making that part up to try and strengthen your argument, but your arguments have little to do with actuality, just you doing your political mud slinging to back your guy, and that's the reason I don't respond a lot of times, because the things you say to defend Tanne are so contrived it's not worth responding to. I do not have to "disprove" that Tanne is great, Tanne must prove it, that's how it works, your sitting here trying to tell me that the best weapon on the team last year was an awful WR, that he's holding Tanne back with his small catch radius, body catching, bad route running, inability to go up for the ball, inability to track the ball, inability to keep his body in bounds, I mean, how does this absolute clown your describing have a job in the NFL? How did Tanne have his best rating throwing to this absolute train wreck of a WR? How did he get 10 TDs? Your arguments are a lot like clown shoes, big, red and ridiculous.
Another thing, when you say that to get the most out of Wallace you have to be accurate...you are saying ALL the things that we've been saying about Wallace for two years. Bad routes, can't catch with hands, doesn't go up to fight for ball, and tiny catch radius. But you say it in a way to be a negative for Tannehill. Lol
Dude, the problem is you throw these arguments up as if they're new. They're not. The answers to everything you just asked have been covered time and time again.
Really? That is your argument? Wallace doesn't run bad routes? Are you serious? Explain 2012. I'll wait.
A) Tannehill is not a good deep ball thrower (yet). B) Wallace has a small catch radius and is not good at tracking and adjusting to the ball in the air. Put A and B together and we get bad chemistry. Why is it so hard for some people to understand this?
I think it's important to be more specific than that. Wallace does well when you throw the high arching type deep ball and you let him run to go get it. That is one type of "tracking" and "adjustment" that he does well. What he doesn't do well is have to track BACK to get the ball, which is what often was necessary with Tannehill's throws (because T-Hill had trouble judging where Wallace would be). Tannehill doesn't throw that high arching type deep ball, and that's a bigger problem for some WR's than others. So, the Tannehill-Wallace deep ball problem was partly both players' faults (or maybe more the fault of whoever tried to fit the two together on a team!). But Tannehill didn't have the same deep ball problem with other WR's, so I wouldn't make a blanket statement saying his deep ball is bad.
Only by your estimation, what your doing is coming up with a hypothesis, then assuming it to be fact, as you intimated by saying, "The ANSWERS", as if these things have ever developed beyond hypothesis.
But your tripe about Tannehill being bad at any number of things and Wallace being good at route running are NOT opinions? Are NOT hypothesis?
No, Finster, answers to all the things you brought up have been given. You may not like the answers, because they go against your narrative, but they have been given.
It is YOU who claim to have answers, I have questions, you say Tanne has arrived, I say he needs to prove it, you say Wallace is all these bad things, I say then how was it he was so good. It's comical.
It's like arguing that the tallest midget is still tall. You say he's short, but he's the tallest guy out there!!! Yeah, Wallace had many shortcomings...he was still our most dynamic receiver. Just because he had good numbers doesn't mean he was perfect. Frankly, many of his tds were in the red zone, that was an aberration for him. Yes, we ALL agree Wallace played better last season...that doesn't mean that his shortcomings went away. It means the offense was changed to better accommodate him and Tannehill.
when Tannehill was struggling and Lazor adjusted the game plan did he shut down Tannehill to Wallace intermediate and deep passes, or did he strip ALL long passes? Did Lazor shift the long passes from Wallace to the other WRS?
The other receivers had all already failed early in the season on deep passes, or did you forget all those drops.
Ya he was...you see all those drops he had? Scrub. Edit: He wasn't the whole problem, he shared a piece of it, but to say when HE struggled is short-sighted.
It's crazy, man. Ignore everything else, and boil everything down to "Tannehill struggled." Drops don't matter, jailbreak rushes don't matter, defensive collapses don't matter. Crazy.
Ryan Tannehill is ugly and has stupid looking thumbs!! (Prepares thyself for Fin D and Res blaming Ryans parents for these shortcomings)
Well I've always believed in Tannehill and I think this season a lot of people will see why. Though I am fully prepared to admit it if I'm wrong.
I believe in Tannehill...he is about to explode onto the scene imo..i own him in all three of my FF leagues....but jesus if he has a bad game?? I wont be afraid to say he played like shnit on X day, thats what a few around here struggle with.
Well, it would be their fault. I actually think that is a good analogy. You shouldnt hold someone responsible for something outside their control.
No, that's never been the issue. The issue was always the conclusions people jumped to when looking at things Tannehill struggled with, and never factoring in outside influences other than Tannehill.
no the issue was some pointing out faults and others saying thats part of the process...that line gets muddled...for me I will need to see him convert big situations when protection breaks down..thats where im at in his development...if you want to tell me im wrong for having that concern because I should be able to see that its not really a problem only part of the maturation process than your seeing things more clearly at this point when it comes to thie player.. I believe his game is enough to get us to the playoffs, win 10 11 games, I need to see more specific plays to believe that he can lead us to a championship..doesn't mean I dislike him, im gonna be hyped as sh^^ all season..I know hes got the talent..
