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Patriots SPYGATE was much worse than let on...OTL report

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phins_Fan_87, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    It matters , it matters in a hugely significant way imo . Not just that they did , which they admit to in some form but the extent and the entitlement they have shown to think they can operate as they wish and that be ok .

    If it is proven that some of the charges we've just heard , private room , tapes , signals , playsheets etc. etc . etc. are legitimate then it's paramount to have that detailed and made public and that the proper punishment is allocated . Could be some lean lean draft years looming .

    Here is an excerpt from Deadspin :

    I want to hug and kiss this beautiful story from ESPN’s Don Van Natta Jr. and Seth Wickersham and take it out to a fancy dinner. Splendidly reported and brutally damning of both the New England Patriots and Roger Goodell, it alleges that the Patriots’ Spygate scandal was worse than anyone imagined—and was actively swept under the rug by the commissioner and the NFL.

    You should read the story immediately, but the thrust is this—citing interviews with 90 sources in and around football as well as primary documents, ESPN reports that Bill Belichick and the Patriots videotaped opposing teams’ signals from 40 different games from 2000 through 2007. And when the scandal broke, Goodell did everything in his power to protect Robert Kraft, who was one of his strongest supporters and without whom he would not have been named commissioner. The thesis statement in this story is that the cover-up—and if this report is accurate, the league’s actions can’t be called anything else but a cover-up—so rankled other owners that Goodell came down extra-hard on New England and Tom Brady for Ballghazi as “a makeup call.”

    The Patriots’ defense for Spygate—when they were caught taping Jets coaches’ signals—has always been that it was an honest mistake, that they had misinterpreted the rules. Their track record implies otherwise. Belichick reportedly placed his complex spying program in the hands of Ernie Adams, the Patriots’ mysterious “director of football research.” It began way back in 2000, Belichick’s first year as New England coach, and only became more efficient as time went on.

    http://deadspin.com/bombshell-espn-report-the-patriots-were-huge-cheaters-1729286402

    This is gold :

    This part of the report is unimpeachable—it comes directly from the Patriots’ counsel.

    Inside a room accessible only to Belichick and a few others, they found a library of scouting material containing videotapes of opponents’ signals, with detailed notes matching signals to plays for many teams going back seven seasons. Among them were handwritten diagrams of the defensive signals of the Pittsburgh Steelers, including the notes used in the January 2002 AFC Championship Game won by the Patriots 24-17. Yet almost as quickly as the tapes and notes were found, they were destroyed, on Goodell’s orders: League executives stomped the tapes into pieces and shredded the papers inside a Gillette Stadium conference room.


    Buckle up everyone , there's going to be a lot of hard hitting ahead and not just on the field this season . KRAFT PRODUCTIONS , yeah right .... same amount of letters , three the same .... KARMA PRODUCTIONS is about to produce some notable documentaries for the rest of the league to view.
     
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  2. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    At this point they need to suspend BB for a season min, take away 3 years of 1st rounders, 3 years of 2nd rounders, and asterisk the FK outta those accomplishments.
     
  3. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Lifetime ban for BB
     
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  4. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    We're seeing it with Deadspin now , they both will bite on this and not let it go and also do a very credible job detailing and unearthing information and facts.

    Bias aside , there really isn't that many stories that would overide this for journalists looking to make their marks or companies wanting to blow something up sky high that will cover them in positive residue for years and years to come .
     
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  5. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    What makes you think you're going to get a fair game against the Pats**? They're STILL cheating. That entire organization has to be cleaned out. Entire staff needs lifetime bans.
     
  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    asterisk isn't enough.. gotta strip them of the title. No amount of draft picks taken away IMO is a cost that balances out the benefit of winning the SB, even once.
     
  7. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know man..you know than I am a lifer with the team..Celebrating 50 years of Miami being my team...but man, I sure would be embarrassed..Football for me, it was just so much better for me when it was"Holsum."
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'll say again, if you go by his job Goodell did nothing wrong by the league. Regardless of what anyone wants to pretend is true or not, Goodell's number one duty above all others is to protect the league. That's precisely what he did.

    Should he be protecting integrity? Yes, we all should, but he was not hired by the owners to do that.

    Hate the Pats for what they did and hate the owners as a group for being perfectly ok with covering up any wrongdoing because they built it this way. Hating Goodell is like when someone hits you with a hammer you're mad at the hammer.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    For all of the *****ing about this stuff and crying cause they're trying to make the game safer, the biggest issue is still brewing and that's concussions.

    When it pops, the game will be forever changed. And all this whining about "the good old days when men were men" bs, will stop.
     
    MAFishFan likes this.
  10. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    "No More",
     
  11. shadokp

    shadokp Active Member

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    I hate the Patriots because of their successes and the fact that the Dolphins have not been competitive during that time period. The fact that the Pats feel they must constantly have that upper edge and cheat in doing so makes my hatred justified - otherwise it is just bitter apples because my team is not good enough to do what the Patriots have done. This justification is big for fans of teams around the country that were beaten by the Pats over the past bunch of years. The Pats are the Yankees of the NFL. They are hated because they win foremost and in this case, there is ongoing evidence backing up the fact that the team is cheating. Of course everyone wants Brady or Belichick suspended and superbowl trophies taken back or at least have an asterisk added.

    As for the fans - most of the vocal fans are beating their chests and sticking it in our faces since last week. When I talk with them most either don't care about the cheating or are in denial that it is happening. But not all fans are like this. I feel bad for some of the younger kids who have the Pats as their team. This is their team and their parents and grand parents were life time fans living through years and years where the Pats were the doormat of the division. Many fans don't deserve what is going on with this and I feel bad for them. It has to be a tough situation to be in.

    Imagine though if the Dolphins were the ones cheating all this time. What would be our reaction?

    Okay, Okay - our reaction would be - "boy, they can't even cheat well enough to win" - but imagine Marino won 3 superbowls and evidence came out that the team cheated (spygate, etc). What would our reaction be? It would be heartbreaking (at least for me) knowing that those superbowls were not quite as pure as they should be. Sure, even without cheating the Pats would probably still win most of the games that they ended up wining, but in the heart of a fan, there is now some doubt. I have to imagine that most Dolphin fans would defend their team still, especially when other team fans come in and start to diss our team and QB. I would be distraught and go into denial. I would feel that other teams cheat as well and that the cheating would not have made a difference. And when up against a wall I would fight back against other fans and defend my team to the bitter end.
     
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  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Don't forget Ray Rice's knock out punch to his gf and Adrian Peterson's child abuse last year.

    Having said that.. best moment from last season (technically this year in January): Don Shula calling BB "Beli-cheat"
     
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  13. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    The story is not going away .

    From SI :

    Photo: Matt York/AP

    At various times over the last decade, at least 19 NFL franchises took precautions against the Patriots that they didn’t take against any other opponent, people who worked for those teams told SI. Those concerns have not waned in the eight years that have passed since the Spygate scandal. The list of safeguards is long and varied. Teams commonly clear out trash cans in their hotel meeting rooms in New England because they believe the Patriots go through them. One longtime head coach said he ran fake plays in his Saturday walkthroughs at Gillette Stadium because he thought the Patriots might be spying on his team. Another team has taken things further: It fled Gillette and found a different place to practice, and on game day it piled trunks of equipment against the double doors in the back of the visitors’ locker room so nobody could get in. That same team kicked the visiting locker room manager out of the office he occupies near the clubhouse.

    http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/patriots-cheating-suspicions-bill-belichick-tom-brady
     
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  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Most Pats fans I've seen or heard from are just generally convinced most NFL teams do this and the only reason they've been caught and punished is because of jealousy over their total success. They also believe the cheating only affects 1% of the game or some made up number.
     
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  15. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You're just explaining how humans behave. That's different than justifying the behavior based on some agreed upon morals.

    There's no moral justification for what the Patriots did (at least not based on the ones most of us have), and there's no reason to try and justify Patriots fans' behavior. You reap what you sow.
     
  16. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Cool story
     
  17. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    okay shadokp from Mass. Please, they're frauds. ALL of them. My love & fandom of our Dolphins runs DEEP but if they were to systematically cheat the game and cheat me I would walk away without a second thought.
     
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  18. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, I agree with you...I am still 27 at heart brother, and I miss to football of the 80's & 90's just like you until they started changing all of the rules..example: just like I know some may like the 33 yard XP Attempt, when all it does for me is give me heartburn...really, from since near the beginning until last year, it was fine how it was....just one small way of how they change the rules on a whim...
     
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  19. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a pretty simple claim to make now, while you're young, and healthy. I'm willing to bet if you made that lifestyle trade, 30 years from now when you're nearing your 60's, and your body and mind are breaking down from injuries and head shots over your career, you'll be kicking yourself.

    Look at all the veterans now that are really raising up the concussion issues, and their health issues are coming out. At the time they played, they thought the exact same things you're saying here, but the money was less, way less. Now look at them... Can't walk, cant talk, can't remember, can't speak properly. The effects of the game a long lasting, and those guys played at a time when guys weren't as big, as fast, as strong, and weren't hitting and being hit as hard. Of course, medically speaking and from a training standpoint we've come a long way too, but still... if you were living with, or going to be living with those issues down the road, I don't think that's such an easy statement to make.
     
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  20. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Understandable that most take this position .

    Hard , cold truths are coming out though which will make that shrug your shoulders approach ridiculous should they continue to espouse that .

    Every team bends rules or tries for a competitive advantage , the facts are and will present the Patriots as a team and organization that did and does much much more than that .

    As I've said , this isn't fading away , and it shouldn't .
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Looks like SI is trying to get in on the frenzy with a big dive into the issue of their own.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm just looking for real things that are going to come of this and the most likely one I've got is Roger Goodell stepping down.
     
  23. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Is there someone who can step in right away though?

    It's amazing. I really liked Goodell when he was first hired. He seemed like a good dude who cared about the league. He's become such a disaster.
     
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  24. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    The guy that's turning 70 in November wrote and sang , "It's better to burn out than fade away " .... not sure if he believes that :)
     
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  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    News flash. You're going to.

    Lets not forget, these NFL players all have lives. Wives, children etc. etc. You think they want to be unable to get out of bed in the morning? Unable to spend quality time with their children as they grow up? I mean, there's a million things outside of... ohh... look! Seven figure salary! Yay me! The lavish lifestyle gets old and lonely pretty quick when you have nobody but yourself to spend it with. Then add to that the fact that your body is broken down as well as your mind.

    You may not think it's an issue, but the number of players walking away from the game at an early age now, especially this offseason, and the number of players speaking out against concussions etc, speak otherwise. There's a wake up call for everyone..
     
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  26. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    Why is all this coming out now years later?

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
  27. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    See, that's the part I'm torn about. He does care about the league and it's well being IMO. How else do you handle the antics of a couple of rogue owners breaking the rules to further advance their money making opportunities, without sacrificing the interests of the others? The ultimate job of the commish is to manage the league, protect it, and grown it. He's done all of those things, or at least tried. If you think Roger Godell is the first, and last commissioner of the NFL to have tried to sweep something like this under the rug for the "benefit of the league" you're kidding yourself. It's always happened, it was just always kept amongst the owners themselves. Now it's getting out, and of course its going to upset those who aren't involved, because there is now fear that this empire is starting to show some cracks
     
  28. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Thank Judge Berman for that. If he had ruled in favor of the NFL, Brady serves his 4 game suspension and it's all over. But his decision is too big an embarrassment for Goodell and co. so Goodell ****s on the fan and hopes some of the crap hits Brady and Belichick.
     
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  29. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, even the article states that most, if not all teams, use their advanced scouts to try and decode the opposing teams signals.

    That's part of the gamesmanship that goes on in every sport.

    The mere fact that the Pats did it smarter and better, and have some kind of football savant in Ernie Adams on their staff, I don't think in and of itself makes what they did that much worse than everybody else.

    The real issue to me is that they did it even after being warned. It's one thing to exploit a loophole or push a boundary that's no one's ever pushed before. I have no issue with that. But once the league decides that taping is truly a line that they don't want crossed, and then you still do it?

    That's what brings this to a different level.

    That being said, there wasn't really anything in the article that wasn't reported/rumored/speculated about at one point or another over the last 7 years. Maybe the Martz statement thing, but that is a league issue and has really nothing to do with the Pats.

    It's over. They were punished. Whether the punishment was enough is up for debate. But until they get caught doing something else, rehashing this is pointless.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And to nobody's great surprise, here are Robert Kraft and Judge Berman mingling together at a party this Labor Day weekend:

    EDIT: Picture deleted. Was huge, and besides Judge Berman wasn't even in the picture. Kraft and Berman were seen at the event together, though.
     
  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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  32. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was at a charity event.

    I see and mingle with Judges that I've been before at Bar and other events all the time.

    Nothing to suggest that Berman was somehow partial to the Pats. He has a lifetime appointment so he's not looking for campaign contributions, and trial courts hate getting reversed above almost anything.

    No conspiracy here.
     
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  33. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...ainst-less-sophisticated-teams-like-dolphins/

    Primitive, unsophisticated Dolphins were among the easiest teams for them to exploit their cheating. I remember against their D where Vrabel and others always being in right place at the right time whenever we played against them. On offense they always seemed to be able to pick up our blitzes too. Of course Wanny and others were too busy with their heads up their asses to know.

    Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
     
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  34. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    No conspiracy but appropriate? Probably not considering everything . Decorum .
     
  35. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wow, did not know about the statement to Congress. Forgot about the futile Specter. He is 0-5 since Bounty, Rice, Peterson, Hardy and Brady. Once they negotiated that new CBA all of a sudden a switch goes off and the NFL has become super aggressive and unreasonable in these things. I think Goodell thought it was a coup when they handed over arbitration and appeal to him for Integrity and Personal Conduct. It's like the saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it's clear he thought the NFL had power they really didn't have.

    I actually don't hate any teams or players in the NFL, even our sworn enemies. I can't even hate the Jets because they're so easy to pick on. They're the guy you keep around to make fun of, you're not sure you hate or like them. But you constantly make fun of them.

    But I generally dislike Goodell.
     
  36. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's nothing inappropriate.

    The case is over.

    It won't return to Berman's court room for years, if ever.

    And the case was Tom Brady v. NFL. Not the Patriots v. NFL. The Patriots weren't even a party that he dealt with.
     
  37. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    let's not all pretend that the Patriots dynasty was 100% built on cheating. They've been a dynasty because they were a team loaded with talent (defense early on, Brady later on) that is very dedicated with smart players - now you add the cheating takes them from a perennial playoff team to a perennial Super Bowl team.
     
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  38. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Even if you take all the allegations as 100% true, you still need coaches who can make decisions and adjustments on the fly and players who can carry out those adjustments on a moments notice.

    Not to mention you still have to make the play, even you know a run or a pass is coming.

    That's why this stuffs impact on the outcomes of games is so hard to quantify.
     
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  39. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    The bold part is a good way of putting it.. but think of the difference in value between a perennial playoff team and a perennial Super Bowl team. That difference in value is HUGE! Which is why the cheating issue is huge.
     
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  40. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Appropriate is not black or white .

    IMO you should not engage in casual conversation with drinks in a setting like that after the decision you both were involved in .

    Legal ? of course .... not the issue , perception is and again imo it is poor judgement by both parties.
     

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