I have always like Matthews, got ripped for it on other boards, but I've always thought he had skill. Same thing with Miller actually. I think Philpin likes Matthews well enough or else he would be gone
I never said there is only 1 way to approach immature players. My problem has always been Philbin seemingly being incapable of handling people who have any sort of behavioral problems. Every team has them and if the talent warrants it, you utilize that talent while dealing with the problem in a more creative manor like other coaches have throughout the history of any professional sport. Contrary to what people have said, that doesn't always mean benching or cutting a player. He hasn't had any major problems the whole time here. I don't love re-hashing the Davis thing but it applies to this argument. The failure lies in the fact that Davis is now making pro bowls for the Colts and that Matthews is on the last year of his deal. As Disgustipate said, they have basically wasted his prior 3 years even though he's been flashing talent the whole time. And now we have expended numerous resources on that very position when we've had a VERY cheap and young drafted talent wasting away on the bench the whole time. Ok, now Matthews is on the field, great. So either we can believe that Philbins message has finally "worked" after 3 years and Matthews a new man, or we can believe the injuries to others (Parker, Stills) have forced Philbin to practice him more and he's been showing more of the same talent we all have seen throughout his tenure here and now he's under Tannenbaums' watchful eye. Seems more likely that Matthews is capitalizing on his situation than anything. Philbin didn't fix Vontae, his way of dealing with him (he gave the okay to trade) bit us in the ***, hard! And I personally don't give Philbin the credit for "fixing" Matthews, so I think he has failed in both instances. Hopefully things change with Matthews and he re-signs on a great bargain deal and produces, like he should have been the prior 3 years.
There is literally nothing Philbin could do at this point for some of you. You all have decided he just sucks at everything and will just take anything that happens and make it a negative. This is a prime example. I mean the kid flashed a little potential, so apparently, you guys believe he should have taken whose spot exactly? Wallace's? Hartline's? Landry's? Whose spot should he have taken? Who cares if he didn't take any of it seriously and was breaking team rules...right? He was a 7th round pick who did a little with his opportunities, so he should play ahead of........who again? And now, the kid is finally taking it seriously and in turn its upping his game and you guys are all like, "You suck Philbin!!!!!!!" I mean hell, you still blame him for Vontae when it was Indy who initiated the trade and Ireland who made it. Philbin had very little time to have any effect on Davis. Doesn't matter, it was all Philbin's fault and he sucks and he should have fixed Davis. Well now that he fixed Matthews, you guys are all like Philbin sucks he should have played him ahead of ????? instead of fixing him. Like I said....cuckoo.
That is a good point you made there. I don't know if he has been completely healed from that calf injury. I think it's possible he may have came back too early. Like you said, if he struggles already with getting off the line, how much more would his injury make things worse?
Anything less than a 3rd, imo, is not worth it. A 4th is tempting, however I would rather have the depth.
You've lumped me into a group of Philbin haters in your opening rant and that is completely untrue so I'll ignore that whole 1st paragraph. I didn't say he should be playing ahead of anyone. He should have had far more opportunities than given to play. And yes he could've replaced Hartline or even more likely Gibson. He could've been just as affective as Hartline or Gibson was last year and Matthews was cheaper and actually had/has untapped upside. Google the 2012 and 2013 and look at the WRs rostered. Legacy Nanee, Armon Binns, Marlon Moore I believe all had opportunities over Matthews they shouldn't have had (going on talent) and he's outlasted them all because of that. Being completely honest with yourself you can see there was a much larger opportunity for him than was given. You think Indy just happened to covet VD and make an out of the air assumption that he may be available? I don't. And who gave the final OK to trade him? Philbin. Ireland specifically asked Philbin, on TV I mind you, and Philbin made the final decision. Again, it was Philbin. He wasn't in Ireland's "dog house". Again, stop claiming Philbin fixed Matthews. It's far more likely that hes playing for a new contract and the team had unfortunate injuries in camp which led to this opportunity.
Tannehills rating throwing to Gibson was in the 70s. If Matthews was better it was a mistake to sit him. A lot of posters were cheering the Dolphins players disrespecting Saban. But they still played. You play your best players. Why is Mathews in a dog house for 3 years? Silly. He was kept around because they saw talent in him. But never play him? It's just weird.
So does Philbin get credit for bringing in guys like Suh and Landry in your world? What does Hickey and Tannenbaum do exactly? I mean, if Philbin is in charge of personnel its just coincidence there has been a shift in the type of moves being made the exact same time Ireland left and Hickey came in?
He's reaching his potential, so maybe he's worth a 4th or 5th now... Yall acting like we buried a diamond. You think we could have played Matthews more last year.... Not because he was deserving, but because it may have helped us ? Like we'd pass on Parker because of him ? Atleast some have noticed there's more critical reasoning behind this. Matthews could be expendable with Hazel emerging..and the time is now to give him reps to show his worth while Stills and Parker ease on in.
If. Thats a big if. Maybe drafting Parker resulted in lighting a fire under Mathews ***. If thats the case the resources were used extremely efficiently.
I hate to be a broken record - but of all the new acquisitions I think Stills has the most potential...to disappoint.
Why am I getting asked this question? I was speaking ONLY about the VD trade. Guys, I don't hate Philbin.
If I remember accurately, Matthews was one of the top performers in camp last year only to get shelved. If I thought I had out performed players that were given the job, I would be pissed also.
I am not a huge Philbin fan, but do hope he can become a good coach. It is funny though, I went to a high school game the other night. Team was driving down the field and ran out of time outs with seconds left on the clock. I was thinking if that were Philbin he would call a time out. Sure enough the defense coach called a time out and the team scored on the next play.
Shelving a 7th rounder who could potentially be a legitimate starting WR on your team is essentially burying a diamond. I'm not unhappy with Landry, Hazel or Parker (love Parker!) being drafted. I'm only saying they have essentially wasted Matthews time here, and in turn wasted, or misused if you prefer, some valuable resources.
Wow...I thought he might be a steal. I do wonder why New Orleans wanted to get rid of him so easily...was it because of his inability to get off the line quickly or is it the fact that he seems to only be able to run go routes or deep posts? What's crazy is that Tannehill is a fan of his ability. He said at one point in training camp that Stills' speed in and out of cuts was impressive. He loved his route running and his hands. Basically he seems to really love this guy. I guess that's why your comment through me off a bit. I had no idea he was as bad as you stated.
Its not like he's getting zero playing time. In 2014 he played between 20 and 40 percent of offensive snaps in 9 games, he also plays a lot on special teams. He has gotten opportunities to show what he can do in games.
If you're not a hater then I apologize......but this argument certainly paints a different light, but I'll take you at your word. If you wanted him to get more playing time, then he has to play ahead of someone. So again, who? He was 7th rd rookie in 2012. Everything was new, from the coaches to the offense to the QB. The fact that he outlasted them should tell you that he hasn't been as disrespected as you're portraying. Yes. Its not a little suspect to you that you're using Hardknocks to prove your point, but it actually proves mine. See, go back and watch it. They showed Ireland getting called by Indy. They show Ireland merely telling Philbin about it. They show Philbin saying nothing. Everything else you're talk about from us calling Indy to Philbin making the final decision, is literally made up in your head. Seriously, go back and watch the episode. It sure seems like he's fixed. He's been working out away from TC and has been taking camp more seriously. But forget all that for a second...... What exactly was Philbin supposed to do for Vonate to get him change his ways? Just say, "eff it" and let him play mediocre anyway?
It's more of a gut feeling than anything, partly fueled by the terrible success rate this team has had in bringing in free agent WRs. Earnest Wilford, Legadu naneadjakdnak (refuse to take the effort to spell his name right), Chad Ocho Jack Off, etc. Hell, even the free agents who did good were amazing disappointments - Brandon Marshall, Mike Wallace, etc. I just don't see Stills breaking the trend. He was a marginal player at best in New Orleans with Drew freakin' Brees throwing him the ball. But people who know a hell of a lot more than I do about football are liking what they see out of him, so here's hoping I'm wrong!
I don't know that he was in the dog house for 3 years. He was in the doghouse last year for sure. And ftr, in 2013, Tannehill's QB rating to Gibson was 112, which explains why Matthews didn't start the season above Gibson that year or beginning of last year.
I have to agree with Blitz. I think Kenny will be the one to disappoint. He really isnt that skilled... Just another Wallace except cheaper. And ive seen him on the Saints believe me he is very aware when a big hit is about to come, he rather let the ball fly away than attempt to get physical. If Parker is ready it wont matter anyways. Parker Landry Jennings Jordan and Matthews, Tannehill has enough weapons in those five.
Anyone that remembers VD knows he was a hard hitting game changing CB that also had some growing pains. He was already displaying flashes of being elite. He came into the league at 20 yrs of age and his immaturity issues were known coming out of Illinois. Why would the Colts and Jim Irsay get so excited to get a mediocre CB?!
You are 100% wrong about that episode. Sorry. VD was mediocre for us. He had potential. He did not achieve it though.
What your eyes saw as mediocre my eyes saw elite talent being developed. What is he now? The coaches benched him in favor of some scrub who's name escapes me and the Colts pounced with Philbins stamp of approval.
Matthews didn't just flash, he performed when called upon, after Gibson got hurt he had one of the biggest games from a dolphin receiver in recent memory with 120 and 2 TDs against Tampa Bay...he showed what he was capable of and he was starting to contribute the second half of the season...but in 2014 he was given almost no opportunity to build off that, he went right back to the pine despite proving he deserved more playing time, which leads to the team using two of their top 3 picks on receivers when they really didn't need to.
Everyone and their brother were complaining that VD wasn't reaching his potential. He likely reached it in Indy because he was traded. That was a wake up call. I'm sorry, but you have to prove Philbin had final say. There's no evidence of that and the evidence you've discussed simply didn't happen. We also know for a fact, that there was a power struggle between Ireland and Philbin.
I don't buy into everyone and their brothers opinions on a Dolphins message board. I was watching the games with MY eyes. Obviously I disagreed with their opinions then, if they were saying those things. I saw the conversation on Hard Knocks. I have my opinion, you have yours. If I say they mutually agreed to trade him does that make anything better? Philbin at the very least could have said, "let's give him more time to grow up". No, but he didn't. The fact of the matter was he was in the Philbin "dog house" to begin with and that's why he was traded. Philbin made the call to bench him in favor of a scrub who I can't even remember his name because Davis was slow to grow up. Remember his brother Vernon?
You obviously have more knowledge about Stills than I do. I didn't know much about the guy other than what I read. I hope that while he is here, that he will be serviceable, if not a really good receiver. Being that he is so young, I'd like to see him tap into some potential that this team sees in him.
No it doesn't make it better, because you're basing it on false information because you remembered it wrong. And so what he benched him. He benched Matthews and Matthews hasn't gone anywhere.
But he didn't perform when called upon in 2014. He played in 210 offensive snaps for an average of 0.64 yards per play. For some perspective Landry averaged 1.11 yards per his 683 offensive plays and Hartline averaged 0.58 yards over his 813 snaps. Hartline earned his playing time with what he did in 2012 and 2013 and his paltry 0.58 yards per offensive snap got him shipped out of town. Mathews wasn't much better.
He had a very good game then couldn't repeat it... Sherman, Philbin, and Lazor all have made comments about his lack of study time and professionalism. What's encouraging is what Tannehill said about after the last game: No one is rooting against Rishard, Stills, or any other player. I'd love to see them both succeed, but they are different players with different strengths and their opportunities will probably depend on circumstances and situational football...
THIS. It is what I have been saying. He has provem that he belongs to get real playing time. He was pissed because he got lied to and screwed over by the organization and rightfully so.
I did not remember it wrong. Ireland was running his thoughts by the coaching staff at a table and Philbin voices his displeasure with Vontae then asks...."what are you thinking?" Ireland says "I'm thinking about moving him" and Philbin then proceeded to say "yeah, yeah.....yeah". That to me is saying "yeah I agree". Then they cut scene. While you're probably cracking your fingers and rubbing your hands together waiting to reply, just know, it pains me to ask for you to quote me on what I got wrong about the episode in the first place. *Edit* I see what your hanging onto. I said he gave the final word on TV. And he did in my opinion. He agreed with Irelands notion of trading him by saying "yeah" 3 times to end the TV edited conversation.
That is not final say. You are literally inventing the final say stuff. We know for a fact Philbin didn't have final say with Ireland. That is why Ireland is gone because of the power struggle between the two. Ok, so that was the extent of what happened and that's your proof, because it happened on screen, yet Indy calling us happened on screen and you don't believe that. That's a problem, just like saying Philbin didn't work with VD is problem but Philbin working with Matthews is also a problem. Also, watch interviews/PCs with Philbin, he very often says "yeah" after a question. Its how he acknowledges people talking to him. Its not uncommon.
You know for him to get on the field you have to take others off the field, right? And 210 offensive snaps over 14 games is not nothing. Incidentally, Stills gained 1.51 yards on each of his 617 offensive snaps in 2014. Which is better by far than any Dolphin receiver. Landry-1.11 yards per play Wallace- 1.05 Matthews- 0.64 Gibson- 0.59 Hartline- 0.58 Sims- 0.56
I didnt invent anything so stop acting as if I have some hidden agenda to smear Philbin. Understand that I, unlike you, am not on a never ending crusade to argue a point on who's fault everything in the past is. Philbin agreeing with THIS trade is just as bad to me as having the final say on that trade. His final words on the matter were on agreeance with Irelands. He literally said "yeah, yeah.....yeah" as his last words on the matter (that we know of). If Philbin had said, "no I don't see a reason to give up Vontae yet" I wouldn't even had brought the episode up. He agreed to trade him! You saw edited pieces of a television episode Fin. Don't believe it all to be there....or do, I don't care. If you use your head you come to the conclusion that Indy called because they saw a young talented guy being bench for a guy with inferior talent, and they saw an opportunity to pounce. And they pulled it off. I said he has failed in dealing with both Matthews and Davis. Twist it whichever way you want to.
