I would think teams have to know that their not gonna run on us and their not gonna wanna have their qbs take deep drops, so that leaves the short passing game that the enemies have to execute. heres the question, because coyle likes to play zone with his corners, isn't that counter intuitive to what we should be playing relative to what our front 7 is good at, or should I say, shouldn't we have our corners in mostly press man coverage?
so poster 68 brought up a great point in another thread and that was, of course Belicek was aHead of the curve and used the screen game to cut the lions to death. how des Coyle counter that, cause thats what were gonna get, and thats how you slow the beast down.
Seems to me we'll need to seriously contain the YAC they get on those screens...'cuz they WILL run 'em, and they run 'em well. Wouldn't hurt to have a guy or two jump a route for a big play.
Well, Coyle plays a lot of off-man and matching coverage (especially inside), not zone. I think that's one of the things Miami's done relatively well against defensively. New England in week 1, Green Bay and Denver all used screens and Miami was able to mitigate them quite a bit. I think if they're serious about limiting the number of packages, one thing you can do to mitigate the screens is have Chris McCain play a wider technique. Coyle also brings his safeties down in the box quite a bit. Reshad Jones is pretty good at snuffing things out close to the LOS. I'd have to rewatch some more of Delmas, but both he and Jones strike me as having the range to get to the sideline quickly. IMO, I think it'd be more of a matter of taking the correct angle, and having the smallish CBs Miami has: Grimes, Taylor and both McCains being able to either get off blocks or hold point and use the sideline as a defender well.
cool, so you think coyle will have our corners playing more at the los to mitigate that short passing game?
Why would having Suh change how the Dolphins defend quick passes? It doesn't. And if having Suh encourages opposing teams to run more screens, quick-outs, etc., then good. The short passing and screen games are offensive compromises that should NOT result in big plays. That kind of offensive game plan is only effective when defenses take bad angles, don't tackle and are generally unprepared to play an up-tempo offense. It can result in a couple scores but it shouldn't put 35 points on the board. If that is the challenge our defense is going to face this year, I would expect our offense to out-score the opponent and Miami to win quite a bit. It's not like every team that doesn't have Vontae Davis on the perimeter is vulnerable. If that were the case, we'd see quick passes dominating the league every week. If you're ready for it, you can shut it down. It's going to be on the OLBs, CBs and Safety's to step up and know that it's coming against pocket QBs like Brady...not on Coyle. Strategically, the answer is easy.
the theory is because of Suhs presence the offense is going to have to rely more on the quick passing game, at least I would think so, so, how do we as a defense wanna back up that assumption?, bring our corners closer to the LOS so that their receivers do not have the space to complete quick passes is what I would think, however, thats not something that coyle has done in the past..but in his defense, he hasn't had Suh on his team.
Maybe the slot CBs when they're in nickel. That style doesn't suit Grimes or Taylor that well, IMO. They do, however, seem to do a nice job of coming up when needed. As DolphingGreg said, it's going to be a lot more on the OLBs and safeties, especially when they play Delmas or Jones in the box. Jelani Jenkins has nice range. McCain I think could be pretty good, and his size/length could help out.
I understand your point 100% and yes, the answer would be in your secondary's alignment pre-snap in addition to good tackling (which I believe will be good). If that's the way teams want to attack the Dolphins this year, all but a few will find that after 60 minutes, our offense has out-scored theirs. The Patriots might have some luck with that kind of thing (maybe) but who else? Most offenses are not designed to operate horizontally like that. Brady had the opportunity to integrate that with Welker and now Edelman but that's not most of the league and you coach the team up prior to those meetings. Heck, if you're facing that kind of thing all year it shouldn't be a surprise when the Patriots come to town anyway. Not a lot of teams can put a big numbers with quick passes. That's not generally a good thing offensively so if teams are doing that because of Suh, then Miami is already at a clear advantage.
I don't think you bring your CBs up anyway. That's just inviting blockers to get their hands on them. I think it's a better strategy to play your primary CBs a bit off and as you say, let your range-y OLBs and Safeties do their jobs. It would also help if our primary CBs weren't pressured into tackling all game long and were providing more boundary containment as opposed to pure muscle in those situations....anyone here interested in losing Grimes for the season?!
hmm, I think I would wanna play more press against the pats, disrupting the timing on the outside seems to be important if were gonna try and pressure the interior quickly.
play Suh at SS up in the box and give him a running start at the line of scrimmage on a short 3rd and 1 play lol. Just once in the preseason. I would laugh my *** off
I think it just depends on who you're facing. The one thing I notice about the Pats is that they aren't what they were and they really want to use Gronk up the middle so they have reason to try and avoid going outside all game long. Edelman is dangerous but he's not quite Welker and most of the other guys are not big threats. If you feel you're smaller CBs can fight through that, you can be aggressive as you're saying. I would expect that to vary a little bit depending on the match-up but I would hope that on the whole, the tackling is good. If you have tackling issues, you're going to get burned and as I said, it's the defensive mistakes that lead to big plays when you're talking about quick passes. We know Jenkins, Jones and Grimes can tackle it's the guys on the other side that need to prove they can handle the duties and not let 3 yard gains turn into 8 yard gains.
thats the exact kind of stuff I would do..intimidation with this player is real...hes scary man....black out
lol. even though it sounds insane i would like to see it just one play in the preseason in that situation (3rd and 1) specifically. The goal isnt to stop the play necessarily but to see if you can draw a motion penalty against the center and turn it into a 3rd and 6. centers are the lightest linemen and suh with a running start would have to be a scary proposition. its a gimmick play but if it worked we could put it in our library and possibly use it sometime in the regular season in a critical 3rd down situation
Great thread idea Deej. I'm stoked about the D this year bc it's really a pick your poison type deal. Most teams slide protection to Wake, that's gonna be tough to do w Suh on the other side. I think Suh playing the 3 tech is really gonna help Vernon, QBs aren't gonna feel as comfortable stepping up to avoid the edge rush, there should be some effective stunts going on, and Jenkins will have plenty of opportunities to blitz off the weak side while OL are focused on Suh and Vernon. Wake on the other side doubles the trouble, offenses will need to keep a TE in or chip w a back. Again, opening lanes for Misi, Jones, McCain or whoever to get into the backfield and allowing the secondary to cover 4 guys instead of five, defending the shorter areas instead of expanding to cover the whole field. I don't think its a stretch to say that most offenses arent gonna have answers for the multitude of ways that Coyle can attack them. And that's what you want as a defense, offenses more worried about avoiding negative plays than creating big plays for themselves.
he may be better at off man but does that technique bode well for a Suh led defense? I mean its not about what coyle does and what fits his scheme, its about capitalizing on the best defensive player in the game.
You have to consider how strong that side of the defense is. You've got Grimes on the outside with McCain in the slot and with Wake and Jenkins inside. Behind that are Misi and Jones rolling in to help. It's the other side where all the question marks are going to be.
Its all personal preference. I like Grimes playing off. Even if he gives up a few shorter routes one late or bad pass can get picked and housed by a guy as skilled as him. If you put him in press you lose a lot of that TO potential and you also make Coyle's penchant for putting safeties in the box on early downs very risky. Not saying it's a bad idea to use more press but there's a give and take involved. It's something I would use situationally.
We've got some good blitzing linebackers. I'd go heavy on linebacker blitzing on early downs just to smother the offense in the first half. Then I'd sprinkle in some jailbreaks in the second half. The ability to create chaos in the offense's backfield is how the Zach and JT defense started initially. This defense was elite while healthy. It's got more talent this year. Coyle should be aiming for single digit scores...
I'd also sprinkle a light coat of glitter on the d-line in the fourth quarter against divisional opponents... just to mess with their heads. Was that glitter? Am I at a rave? Is this a dream? ...hey whitey, you got some ecstasy?
It seems like we've targeted corners that play this style of defense well. You put them too close to LOS and I think the negative far outweighs the positive gained with Suh.
Suh paired in the middle with another dominant run defending/pass rushing DT should cause all hell to break loose. My guy was Eddie Goldman to pair with Suh, but he was taken about a dozen spots ahead of Philips and from what I heard the team probably preferred Philips anyway. That being said, and if Philips plays to his abilities, the results and created synergy should be striking. Suh and Philips have the potential to be the most dominant run defending AND pass rushing DT combo in the league, plus you have a very mobile and active Earl Mitchell and mobile CJ Mosely (who may start until Philips is ready) rotating in to keep the big boys fresh, Deandre Jordan and Anthony Johnson look interesting as well. On the outside Wake and Vernon feed off of that interior destruction going on, pin their ears back and have at it. Then you add a very mobile and active Chris McCain at OLB and DT and things get even more interesting. Jelanin Jenkins will have to step up vs the run as teams shy away from testing Suh and Philips in the middle, which makes me wonder if it would make sense to put Misi back at the SAM and get a heady, active MLD in there like Mike Hull, who could clean up behind the mammoth and dominating DTs. Let's not forget Jordan Tripp and Zack Vigil as well, active, heady and mobile LBs who could do some damage as well. The FA OLB from Marshall, Neville Hewitt, is an active play maker as well. Then you have the secondary with Grimes ready to go, Reshad Jones looking ready for a prime year, the McCains locked and loaded and both Jamar Taylor and Walt Aikens looking good. The bottom line is a QB like Brady getting pressured and flustered (and a little bit scared) after the snap with those two beasts in the middle, Wake and Vernon with their ears pinned back like a couple of Dobermans chasing a meat truck and the LBs and DBs controlling the flow and ready to capitalize on mistakes and convert them into turnovers. The synergy that will emanate from Suh should be huge, and I can't wait to see it.
but I don't think your following what Im trying to say, or I'm not following you here..is it the right way to go acquiring zone corners when you have suh on your defense and you know teams are gonna try and get the ball out of their hands quickly?...im thinking if you had press corners to disrupt timing it would be better no?
i think we have to rewatch the new england game week 1, they were successfull in the first half doing these short throws in the first half but in the second half something happend, i will rewatch the game because i can't remember but it worked well
Move Suh to strong safety. Someone had to say it lol. Now back to the real world. You are right that we will have to adjust our coverage for the quick slants and so forth that is going to be a staple in the game plan of every team we play. I would also like to see some zone blitzes, dropping D ends into coverage. I wouldn't be afraid to gamble on occasion this d will be strong enough to make up for an occasional miss. Good topic btw
The D got in Brady's ***, he was seeing ghosts, made some uncharacteristically horrible throws. Then again, they weren't uncharacteristic for him when he gets smacked a few times...it's the book. Their O line was wearing out, as well as their D. SoFl sun and humidity got 'em...though I'm sure there were also some adjustments that helped, but they were gassed. I'm very curious to see what you come up with after the re-watch, if you could please post it.
With this DL the LBs should have more time to run, cover, attack, etc. Last year they had to help stop the run as well as cover, etc. Hopefully the LBs and maybe Jones will be able to get to the edges to contain the screens and at least try to force the screens inside where there are more bigger bodies and guys like Wake who can brake off and make tackles. Containing the edges and forcing things inside should help, but easier said then done I guess.
personally, never been big on Coyle. having said that, if he has an honest strength on defense, it's the defensive backfield. wouldn't over-think it, this year we go to the play-offs. just got to coach them up!
