1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Is Vonte Davis that good ------- Oooch

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

    8,141
    2,103
    113
    Nov 27, 2008
    Atlanta
    Bpk, SICK and Fin4Ever like this.
  2. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    Sean Smith was ranked as a top 10 CB too...
     
    2socks, Bpk and Fin4Ever like this.
  3. bran

    bran Senior Member

    4,525
    1,505
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    New Hampshire
    lack of talent has never been his problem.
     
    DHPVW likes this.
  4. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    The Dolphins love to make dumb trades.
     
  5. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Maybe the old regimes.
     
    DHPVW, SICK, the 23rd and 2 others like this.
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    i loved me some VD man...thought he was a dangerous human being, so explosive and had all pro potential, best hitting corner in the game.
     
    DHPVW, Fin4Ever and Mcduffie81 like this.
  7. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    Yea well lets hope it stays that way....Tannenbaum does seem to know what the hell he's doing.
     
    Sceeto and Fin4Ever like this.
  8. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,297
    2,738
    113
    Aug 26, 2014
    Vero Beach, FL
    Well Philbin is the one that traded Davis and chose not to resign Smith..really we were set at CB for years.
     
    Bpk, CashInFist and Mcduffie81 like this.
  9. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

    6,053
    5,608
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Lake Worth, Fl.
    VD is a pit bull in the secondary. Made game changing hits and plays. That is my biggest beef with Philbin, he didn't know how or want to work with players who need helped along to see their full potential. Hopefully that has changed. I'm not sure tho as we see Matthews sit and rot on our bench demanding trades.
     
    Fin4Ever, Kucha and Tone_E like this.
  10. JimToss

    JimToss Thank You Chad Pennington

    2,938
    2,410
    113
    Oct 11, 2009
    Delaware
    Vontae and Marshall alone should have been enough to get the whole regime fired.

    That is when I lost any hope for Philbin.
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  11. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

    1,385
    560
    113
    Oct 11, 2013
    Yup. And right now Mike Tannenbaum gets the credit for drafting Davante Parker, as long as he continues to look good that is, if it turns out he sucks then it'll be common knowledge Philbin was the one that drafted him...
     
    Sceeto likes this.
  12. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

    20,459
    14,210
    113
    Apr 2, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    One of Ireland's many cherries on top of a crap sundae. The worst part was not even getting a 1st round pick or TY Hilton out of the deal, which is what happens when you trade guys just to trade them
     
  13. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,718
    5,415
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    Brady blowtorched him in the playoffs, those stats are misleading......

    I agree though dumb trade and so was the Marshall one as well.....
     
  14. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    Davis shows up smelling of alcohol before a game (and may have had more incidents of in-house alcohol-related instances). Davis shows up overweight to camp. Davis was immature. This was Davis' fault; but blame the coaches, right?

    Yes, he's a helluva talent who is still young. He's finally showing it. Miami got good compensation. It's over. It's been over. This is a Dolphins Forum. Please move on from former players....
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    TDs allowed in coverage is an awful stat IMO.

    Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Jeff Ireland traded him, not Joe Philbin.

    Philbin can be blamed for being complicit in the deal and even contributing to the rationale by making a big deal about things that probably shouldn't have been such a big deal, but ultimately it was Jeff Ireland who took the phone call from Ryan Grigson, negotiated with him, presented the trade to the group and then pulled the trigger.

    It's just as big a knock on Kevin Coyle because before Vontae was traded, Coyle had bumped him down to nickel corner which is about a 50% participation position. And he did that in favor or Richard Marshall who was a bad free agent signing that I believe Coyle pushed for.

    Great case of pretty much nobody having a clue what they were doing and a bad decision resulting. Though credit to Ireland for getting a 2nd rounder for Vontae as that was a higher price than you'd usually expect in such situations. Then again, they got the high price because he was more than worth it.
     
    Sceeto, Clark Kent, Colmax and 2 others like this.
  17. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    9,297
    2,738
    113
    Aug 26, 2014
    Vero Beach, FL

    That's true and the only time that Matthews gets is rare....but when you put him on the field he has the talent to have Big games and Philbin just buries him deeper all the time...this is a receiver that Philbin should have given him playing time so there would be a good shot at a trade for him...I bet C-Kaep would love to work with Rishard again.:up:
     
  18. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

    72,658
    35,312
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Charlotte NC
    Brady blow torches a lot of corners, good ones too, talk about misleading stat...
     
  19. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    [insert picture of Jeff Ireland looking like a jackass here]

    too lazy to go get the pic. You guys know what that soulless dumb **** ginger looks like by now.
     
  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't like Ireland, but if we're gonna lambaste him for the trade, then also credit him for the initial selection of Smith and Davis.
     
    2socks likes this.
  21. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
     
  22. Kevlared

    Kevlared New Member

    74
    15
    0
    Jun 8, 2013
    I remember being mad as hell when we traded him away. Mainly because I knew he had the potential to be a great corner. But unfortunately for us, our boneheaded staff thought richard marshll>vontae. I hate this staff
     
  23. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Well, VD IS dangerous to human beings...
     
    SICK likes this.
  24. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Sure, that doesn't make it any better though :D
     
    Bpk likes this.
  25. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

    12,162
    5,057
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    He is that good, I picked the Colts to beat Denver because of vontae more so than Luck. And Vontae made the difference that game. Also Sean Smith is a very good CB too, i would say he is top 10. This says a lot more of our previous regime more than anything.
     
  26. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    Lol I swear you guys will reach for the stars to justify all the bad moves this franchise has made over the years, John Jerry over Graham, the Vontae trade, the Marshall trade, trading up for Dion Jordan, trading down too far in the 2010 draft and ending up with the Expendables Odrick and Misi, etc etc...hell you could argue Ireland lost every trade he ever did.

    Defending these moves is not the way you move on. You accept that it was one of many dumb decisions made by a dumb executive, and you simply hope the new regime makes smarter decisions. That's how you move forward.
     
  27. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

    21,176
    10,130
    113
    Jan 14, 2008
    Hornell, NY
    I always did. Whenever I criticized him for it I pondered why someone would flush 2 of his best wins down the toilet. Jeff Ireland and/or Bill Parcells made some good selections for the team. Unfortunately he was pretty awful at retaining talent which rounded out his overall suckitude as a GM.
     
    Sceeto and Bpk like this.
  28. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    What are you talking about? Everything Colmax just said was true and it was why Vontae Davis was on the trading block to begin with.

    If Vontae didn't put the team in a bad position he would still be here...

    ...and by the way Brent Grimes would never have become a Dolphin.

    So, yeah, continually bashing all the negative aspects of Ireland and never giving any credit to the positives seems really biased.

    I'm not going to sit here and debate a GM that hasn't been here for 2 years, because that's not worth the headache and I know better, but it's insulting that you apparently view the world as a bunch of idiots who can't face reality when in fact it seems quite the opposite based on what you just said.

    There are reasons that things happen in this world...sometimes those reasons suck. Vontae Davis got himself traded. It's perfectly fine to say that being traded is what changed him.

    Maybe like how you getting fired from your job might change you?! :)
     
    resnor likes this.
  29. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

    6,053
    5,608
    113
    Mar 23, 2008
    Lake Worth, Fl.
    No, Vontae was not a scrub while here. You don't get 2nd picks when trading away scrubs.
     
  30. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

    30,224
    36,965
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Jersey
    Sometimes guys need a wake up call. Vontae being traded was a major one for him and he turned himself around.

    We can play the blame game all day but in the end it's pretty simple what happened.
     
    resnor and Bpk like this.
  31. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    Careful bro. Crediting Ireland is pretty much against the TOS here.
     
  32. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

    7,853
    8,088
    113
    Sep 23, 2014
    The trade made sense in that Coyle plays mostly off coverage and a lot of zone. That's not a strong suit of either Smith nor Davis. It's a major stretch to say either one of them would have performed as well in Miami as they have with their current teams. Same goes for Brandon Marshall.
     
    resnor likes this.
  33. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    This is why we let them go. At the end of the day, neither player was projected to be as strategically valuable to us as they were to someone else. Given who those two were at the time, I don't have a problem with that projection, in fact I think it was spot on.

    Vontae's aggressive instincts were horrible for his role in Miami. He'd make a great play and then turn around and leave someone wide open or draw a flag. Sean Smith was just never quick enough to handle his duties and I can't tell you how happy I was when Miami wasn't the team who paid him big money.

    Both were good players, above-average in my mind. That said, I'm glad Sean Smith is gone and I'm disappointed Vontae Davis isn't more mature because he could've developed into the more well-rounded guy he is now that still makes good plays without taking as much risk.

    That all being said...Vontae Davis gets hyped too much for my taste. If you watch him closely during games, I don't think you come away thinking he's half as good as anti-Ireland Dolphin fans would have you believe.
     
  34. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Philbin didn't even try to give him the wakeup call. Philbin has a history of wanting to avoid confrontation. Davis' own brother Vontae received his wakeup call and the Niners enjoyed the fruits of that.

    Yes, Ireland is the one who fielded the call, entertained the call, and executed the trade. But does he do so if Philbin didn't complain about him every minute?
     
  35. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    You speak as if you know Philbin and Vontae personally.

    You also seem to have no issue shifting Vontae's short-comings onto other people.

    Interesting.
     
  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    Huh? WTF? LOL.

    How many games into the season did Philbin try to change Davis before he was traded.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  37. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    Point blank...what is your evidence that Philbin didn't give Vontae chances before moving on?

    If that's your assumption, say it.

    If not, convince me Philbin isn't a normal human being who would've tried to get the best out of a kid who was pissing his career away.
     
  38. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    I've edited my post before your response, which answers these questions.

    You do realize there was a thing called Hard Knocks going on right.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  39. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,227
    6,527
    113
    Dec 7, 2014
    You know that's a TV show right?

    Just checking for sanity here. :)

    C'mon, you don't know anything more than anyone else here and yet you are insisting you do by proclaiming Philbin never tried to help Vontae.

    Man...you are siding with the lesser of two characters there...defending the guy who we know broke rules and going against someone's character who you've never met.


    I'm just trying to bring this into perspective. Replace Philbin in that scenario with your best friend. Do you still assume the worst? No, so stop doing it to Philbin.

    What I hate is that people make stuff up or concoct a script and then they believe the stories that are in their own head. They say the same opinions 1000x and then treat it as fact when it's not. If you openly hate Philbin then your analysis doesn't mean anything. By assuming the worst you degrade your own reputation.

    I'm not lying. That's what really happens.
     
  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    I know he never played a regular season game for Philbin. You do know that, right? I know that for a fact. And you know that. Yet you want us to believe nobody here really knows if Vontae was given a chance to grow up.

    How long was Sean Taylor immature before he grew up and finally got his act together before he was killed? Vernon Davis?

    Philbin once said of a player, his best quality is he keeps his mouth shut. That's the type of manager he is. Get rid of anyone who makes him uncomfortable. I'm not making anything up and it doesn't take a huge leap of logic to connect these dots.
     

Share This Page