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The Pursuit of La'el Collins - Signed with Dallas

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by zwave21, May 3, 2015.

  1. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Be interesting to see how this plays out but if there is no suspicion of him involved in the murder man did these rumors cost this guy millions. Just wanted to make sure people were aware of a few facts before we talk about him being a UDFA.

    1. All teams were in agreement to let the situation play out, as the NFL is in a very dire state. The Dolphins after seeing the Hernandez situation play out and with issues of their own with Bullygate and Dion Jordan they are very cautious on character issues. Now noone has said Collins is a suspect but him being asked for questioning and being involved is uncomfortable to say the least.

    2. He went undrafted he is not eligible to enter 2016 draft. If he were drafted and refused to sign he could re-enter next year. Smart move by teams not to risk him not signing a 6th round contact.

    3. He is only eligible to a UDFA contract. So there won't be a bidding war. "Every undrafted rookie is locked into signing a three year contract. The three year contract will contain the minimum Paragraph 5 salary in each year, which will equal payouts of $435,000 in 2015, $525,000 in 2016, and $615,000 in 2017. These are the same numbers as rookies drafted after the 3rd round and many of the players drafted in the third round, so it is not a major loss for Collins of any player who was not projected to be a 2nd round pick."

    4. He will be a very hot commodity. He was projected as a Top 15 pick by some teams. There are some teams who have a need at LT and some a OG. WE ARE ONE OF THEM STILL. Despite the selection of Douglas in the 4th I still think a chance to get Collins who some wanted in round 1 would be a no brainer all legal proceedings pending.

    5. He will be selective. I can guarantee the guy is P.O. from the timing of this situation because if that news came out a few weeks earlier he would've been cleared or a few days later he may have already been drafted. Rough timing for the kid. He will and should be selective on his fit.

    6. One option may be CFL. Read that this morning and it makes sense from financial perspective. By playing in CFL he could still maintain playing level and keep improving. At the same time he would be allowed to be 2016 UFA and teams can have bidding war over him. Talking a difference in millions by heading up north for one year.

    7. Dolphins have good a chance as any. Why? Many things IMO. First, we have a need at OG regardless of the draft and people's opinion. Douglas could become a good OG but Collins is that much better. Collins also has ability at LT and with Albert age and health being a question the promise to Collins to be OG to being career and shift outside over time could be intriguing. Second, his agency is Priority Sports Tannebaum's old firm and any connections help. Third, we had serious interest and brought the player in for a visit so there is familiarity there. Fourth, Jarvis Landry and Anthony Johnson played CFB with Collins so there familiarity could help quell FO and Staff concerns. And lastly, we have no state tax so for a player who went from millions to hundreds of thousands every penny matter.

    I'll put it this way guys if we land Collins as a UDFA this would go down as one of the greatest draft classes of All-Time. Yes, they have to produce but looking at the picks and addition of Collins we would've added 3 yes 3 1st round potential players in Parker, Collins, and Phillips. Also a 2nd round RB in the 5th and depth at many other positions. Possibility for 3 1st year starters right away and 5 to 6 by end of 2015.
     
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  2. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No one blames the Patriots or the NFL for what Aaron Hernandez did. It would be asinine to try and say that the NFL promotes or in any way empowers violence of that magnitude.

    The knock on the NFL right now is that they haven't done enough to fight violence against women. I agree to an extent but only because the NFL operates in that medium. Any organization that runs on the labor of thousands of young males (most not that well educated) is going to have a small minority that commits these awful crimes. Look at the long history of violence against women in the military. If you think the NFL has a problem with domestic abuse, look at how the Army is dealing with the avalanche of rape allegations that surely aren't going away anytime soon.

    If we know anything it's that there is no clear or easy way to punish people for these crimes--particularly through their employer--short of eliminating them altogether at which point you have the problem of possibly punishing innocent people.

    The NFL--like any company--wants to stay the hell out of virtually any matter dealing with violence. The NFL has thus tried to stay out of the business of punishing players. However, the problem lies in repeatedly giving offenders employment, often paying them millions of dollars. After awhile, you'll begin to look guilty by association.

    It could be argued that it would be a better tactic (strictly from an image standpoint) if the NFL didn't punish anyone at all because then they could simply claim that it's not their business and that they aren't getting into the tangled web of going beyond what the judicial systems says is necessary. That's essentially what boxing is getting criticized for now with all this Mayweather stuff. Boxing hasn't done anything to bring up, let alone punish him, for his sordid past. However, when you deal guys like Ray Rice a suspension that is viewed as too lenient, well, you look (arguably) even worse than if you hadn't done anything.


    Now, it's worth pointing out that the vast majority of women I know all feel that the NFL is a business and that it's not their fault these players are so immature. Most women seem to be very rational in understanding that the NFL is simply caught in the middle and is being made to look bad because of the actions of the 1%. It's actually the men that want to lay blaim at the NFL's feet and crucify Roger Goodell. The irony there is pretty significant. ;)


    From the perspective of fans, I'm sure 99% of this forum would love to hear that the Dolphins signed Collins. At this point, there's nothing to lose. If he's Aaron Hernandez, you just wipe your hands and say you didn't have access to the facts. No one is going to blame Miami or any other team for reaching out and providing a chance for someone who might be 100% innocent. In fact, I think it would actually make a team look good.

    The fact that no one did draft Collins, even with a late-round pick, is evidence though that teams are either being instructed by the league not to touch the kid or that there is information out there that the NFL has that we don't have as fans. It's very likely that over the next few weeks, more comes out that makes it clear why no one took a chance on the kid.

    If teams simply avoided him because of "image" I will be shocked because image doesn't correlate to $$$ the way that talent does. If teams are making draft selections based on image--this is going to open a Pandora's box of issues moving forward that would at least require the rules be changed which govern how a player can remove himself from the draft with only short notice.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hah..thought he was a DT..lol

    Seriously though, suspect he is cleared BUT the CFL has a 2 yr minimum on contracts, though clubs can let guys leave early with a wink and nod. Do think until detectives get in front of cameras and say he is not a suspect, or a DA does so, no team will roll the dice.

    Aaron Hernandez and all of that
     
  4. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Padre, had no idea it was 2 year minimum on contracts that makes me feel much better he will choose NFL. Thanks for the knowledge!

    Agreed, he needs the All-Clear from legal teams before a team sniffs around on him.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    In theory it is 3 yrs, the reality is a wink a nod and a contract termination and they are cleared to sign down south.

    TBH...think he would be a lot better off on a practice squad in the NFL this season, while we did role the dice on Jimmy Wilson, Collins is in a very different situation now with all of the bad press the league has gotten.
     
  6. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Agree completely, hard to say hey take a chance and if it doesn't work out well it's ok. Think that is a terrible idea.

    No interest in getting into how NFL views domestic violence because it's obviously a problem and teams were smart to avoid drafting that headache. I do blieve if the process plays out and there is no worries on his character or involvement it'd be like adding another 1st rounder at a fraction of the cost.

    I think the factors leading up should give us the best decision possible. We've met him and scouted him. He is represented by Mr. T former agency. He has two former teammates on the team who could give inside access. We offer no state tax and have a need.

    If he clears = Get it done
     
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  7. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, unfortunately most of the league doesn't have that luxury.

    Put yourself in his shoes. If you just had your name cleared and teams were competing for your services, where would you go? Indy? Green Bay? Seattle? New England?

    Probably not Miami. Like most of the teams in the league, they probably won't have a good shot at him if they wait until the last second so you're perspective is really just avoiding the tough question which asks, 'do you take a risk?'

    Your argument basically boils down to don't sign him. ;)
     
  8. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    I don't think any team in the league is dumb enough to jump the gun on this situation. Look at the NFL has it ever been in a more susceptible state from a PR standpoint? Probably not.

    Ok, I'll put myself in his shoes. I just lost millions of $$$ from a 1st or maybe 2nd round deal. I know I can't make more than the 3 year UDFA contract. I am going to go to a team with the best situation and where I can hopefully make the most money.

    Florida = No State Taxes will save thousands as opposed to any other state outside of Houston and Tennesee I think. He visited the team has two former teammates on the team it is more familiar than most.

    The teams you listed while they are the top teams in the league I don't see why they are more feasible than us and I say feasible from a $$$ perspective. GB's OL is set. NE just invested a boat load of draft picks and just had a murderer convicted = not happening. Seattle maybe and Indy maybe.

    Awfully, down on a team who seems to always lure talented FA's. I have zero idea where Collins wants to play I am only speaking from the team's perspective.

    Be smart and concise which is what they have pretty much down the whole off season. We just drafted a LG in Douglas which means we don't have to risk it if we are questionable on Collins.

    I'm not saying wait until the last second and the guy hasn't even spoken to authorities yet supposedly coming tomorrow. The Dolphins just like the 31 other teams will be made aware what the ramifications of these allegations are at the same time. Once those come out then go ahead if you're comfortable but not before when no one is jumping on him as is.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I love how Miami is stupid for passing on him, but no one mentions that 31 other teams also passed.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If I were him(and innocent), I would be a Seahawk.

    They have a need and they can win a superbowl.
     
  11. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Then let me be the first, every team who passed on him is stupid. Low risk, high reward. If he's in trouble with the law, you waste what is likely a meaningless pick. Fear won the day.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...-dolphins-nfl-draft-0503-20150502-column.html
     
  12. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    If I am a young player and I could pick any team in the league to join, I am going to sign with the Colts. I love the Dolphins, but any player who doesn't want to play with a team who has the best young QB in the NFL and will likely be a SB contender for the next decade, is nuts.

    While he might have to pay state taxes in Indiana, he will make those taxes up and end up making a lot more over the next three years because of the extra earnings he will receive by making in the playoffs each year and likely a SB or two.

    I would love for the Dolphins to sign him, but because they can't outbid other teams for his services because of the collective bargaining agreement and what it allows teams to pay an UDFA. I think the chances of
    him wanting to play for the Dolphins, as opposed to a SB contending team is probably pretty slim.
     
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  13. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    I do see the appeal to play with Luck and am right with you in terms of best young QB and the need is for sure there. Unfortuanetly, we don't know what motivates him...Winning, Playing Time, Money, City, etc.

    But, if it's the last three I like our chances a lot more than Indy.
     
  14. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    But if he is found guilty, then that is a gigantic black eye for whatever organization drafted him. I'm usually down for taking risks, but this one is a bizarre situation that is best left alone for now.

    If he is cleared of any wrongdoing, it'll be one hell of a bidding war and I'd hope we are in on it.
     
  15. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    By your logic, I'd rather sign with Seattle. They've actually got a SB ring, along with another appearance. Better coach, better owner, better organization, better everything. Aaron Rodgers has a good 5-7 years left too, and they have better everything than Indy. Really, I could probably come up with a list of better teams than Indy.


    Collins to Miami makes sense for a number of reasons.

    1). Starting job availability. LG is wide open. The possibility of playing LT in the near future exists too. Albert is getting older and is often injured. LT's make more money than guards.
    2). No state taxes
    3). Close to his Nola home
    4). Every player makes South Florida their off season home, why not just live their year round?
    5). Pretty good team, with a good young QB that has the arrow pointing up.
     
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  16. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Black eyes heal. Incognito was a bigger black eye, in that he was an active member of the team, being an *******. And no one gives a **** about it now. He signed with Buffalo and not a peep about it. Collins isn't Aaron Hernandez, committing a murder(s) while being an active member of the team. All any organization has to say is, "We knew of his situation, we took a chance on him being innocent, and sadly, he was involved and we've severed ties with him." Rip off the band aid and move on. Maybe the media takes a couple of cheap shots, and the story will fade soon enough.
     
  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I actually thought about Seattle but I just feel the Colts are the team on the rise and Seattle is starting to get into a cap situation which all SB winning teams eventually have to lose some of their key players.

    The Seahawks are either going to have to come up with a lot of money to keep Wilson or else take the chance of losing him in free agency.

    I know the Colts will be in the same situation with Luck in 2016, but just having Luck will cause other players who are still productive but near the end of their career to sign with the Colts, because they think that will be their best chance to win a SB. I believe that is why Gore and Johnson decided to sign with the Colts this year.

    By signing Collins, the Colts could stick him on the line as a starter and this would allow them to trade or cut one of their higher priced offensive linemen.

    I hope Collins comes to Miami if he is cleared in this murder investigation. I just look as it as someone who thinks the only reason to play in the NFL should be to win the Super Bowl.

    If he decided to sign with Seattle, Green Bay, New England, instead of the Colts, I could understand it. All those teams offer him a chance to be on a Super Bowl winner in the next few years.

    Players with his skill level aren't available as free agents right out of college. It is the murder investigation which has him is the situation he is in today. If he is cleared in the investigation, he should take advantage of the fact probably every team in the NFL will be after him at a bargain basement price.

    He will make a lot more money over the next three years if he goes to a team which makes the playoffs because there is extra pay for the teams who get into the playoffs and the further the team goes in the playoffs, the more money he will make.

    So joining a team with a better chance of making the playoffs will give him more of an opportunity to earn more money than signing with a team that plays in a state with no state income tax. Of course he could always sign with the Cowboys. That would be be close to his home. It would solve the income tax issue, since Texas has no state income tax. The Cowboys made the playoffs last year and nearly beat the Packers in the playoffs.

    The only reason I don't see the Cowboys as the best fit for Collins is that the Cowboys already have the best OL in the NFL and it would be difficult for him to come in and immediately earn a starting position. Of course the Cowboys could also sign him on the cheap and once he proves he can be a reliable starter for them, they could always trade one of their higher priced offensive linemen.

    It will be interesting to see how this all plays out if and when Collins is cleared in this investigation and he does become a free agent.
     
  18. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've agreed with virtually 100% of every post I've seen you make yet I don't know that there is really evidence to support this notion which keeps getting thrown out there as though there's some validity to it.

    It just doesn't make sense to me? Who is this big bully that's going to shut down the NFL? Fans are lining up in droves to buy what the NFL is selling and yet people act like a the isolated incidents of a small percentage of the players (a percentage that's actually smaller than what you see in the general public mind you) is going to drive people away.

    Until I think that Patriots made Aaron Hernandez a murderer or that the Bills somehow convinced OJ to do what he did, I'm perfectly fine buying the NFL's product. Why do so many people insist that the NFL's current fan-base isn't going to do the same? A fan cannot complain about the NFL's morality and yet bite down so hard on the what the NFL is putting out there. It's shear hypocrisy for fans to speak they way they do. They come to NFL forums online (oh, the irony!!!) and they say one thing while their actions boldly state the opposite.

    For God's sake, we're talking about the NFL on an online forum, I'm pretty sure we're all going to be tuning in next year, and you know what? So will everyone else because rational logic says that the NFL and Aaron Hernandez aren't the same thing. One is great and the other is apparently evil.

    People keep talking about the public perception and the power of the media. Have teams lost money over these scandals? Are people not buying jerseys and signing up for NFL Sunday Ticket like crazy? Are TV deals not bringing in record amounts?

    People keep acting as though public perception means something. In certain places and in certain businesses it does, but not here. No way.


    People would be correct if they didn't watch...but they're going to watch. They admit they're going to watch and yet they still insist that somehow the NFL is killing itself. It has as strong a hold on the general public as it ever has.
     
  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  20. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    if he were smart he'd go to CFL till the popo's are off his trail.
     
  21. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    If they concerned with their image and any media backlash, than yes. Letting the media dictate what's best for your organization is stupid.
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No its really not stupid at all and its how most businesses work.
     
  23. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    would be a solid upgrade for us. just got done answering police questions, didn't plead 5th once.
     
  24. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He wouldn't get a visa being investigated for murder it's a big deal.
     
  25. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Love what I am seeing from Kelvin Sheppard putting on Twitter to get "La'El to Miami". Forgot that Kelvin was a LSU guy and probably very familiar with La'el just as Juice and Anthony Johnson are.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kelvin Shepherd asking Dolphin Fans for their help with La'el

    maybe he knows something we don't..

    of course its not appropriate to support until he's cleared, but if he is innocent I think he deserves a chance, and what better place for him to be with anthony Johnson, Juice, and Shepherd on the squad, close to home, and save some money on state taxes..
     
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  27. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    The Eagle scout murderer.............yah I really really don't think so. Sign him right now. Should have drafted him.
     
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  28. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    i would have definitely taken him with one of the 5th rounders.
     
  29. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    What the hell ever happened to innocent until proven guilty in this country? He's not been arrested, hes not considered a suspect as far as I know, he used to date her yes so he should be questioned. Maybe im wrong and he did have something to do with it, but if not his entire future has been altered due to an issue he had no hand in. I say sign him TODAY offer him a fair contract for what position he would have been drafted in and see where it goes. Let the law do their due diligence and if he is found to have be involved cut him... and state when we took him he was not considered a suspect and now he is. We hope he gets his life together...


    @bran= YES I WANT TO MAKE CHANGES DEAR LORD I DO!!!! AND I WANTED PHILBIN TO BE OUR COACH!
     
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  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    from poster 24

    well if he is innocent, then surely we will have a legit shot..especially considering the hole at guard, its almost like a done deal if he's innocent..Tballs and his old firm should be able to wrap that big boy up in a tight lil bow
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I wanna say it now, in case it comes to fruition and we sign him as an innocent man.....we only really got to sign him without spending a pick because a woman and her baby died, so just keep that in mind if it happens.
     
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  32. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    A) he was untouchable. It's potentially Rae Carruth all over again.

    B) if you draft him, you risk alienating him. He's a guy who -- right or wrong -- feels he's been victimized, from a financial and reputation standpoint. He's upset and desperately seeking some sort of control over his situation during the draft. If nothing else, he wants to pick the destination where he'll be playing for millions less than he should be.

    Let the situation play itself out and let the guy calm down and re-calibrate. I think that is the only way to approach this.
     
  33. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure what you point is. Isn't that the case for every team?
     
  34. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I am certainly not an expert on the NFL collective bargaining agreement, but I do believe that there is a maximum dollar amount each team can sign an UDFA for.

    Collins was projected to be taken in the top half of the first round prior to him being questioned in the murder investigation. So even if he is completely cleared, the team which signs him will be limited in how much they can offer him and it will be no where close to the money he would have received as a top 15 pick in the draft.

    I believe he would have to agree to a three year contract, per the CBA, and it would be a salary at the minimum for NFL players. After two years the team signing him could opt to sign him to a new contract and this could include a signing bonus,paid at that time. This would be one way he could more quickly get back some of the money he just lost.

    Of course if he doesn't come in and become an instant starter and show he is worth the type money first round draft picks receive, he will never see the money he lost this past weekend.
     
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  35. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    it was mutually agreed by all teams to make him go undrafted. if we ignored and drafted him we would have pissed off the entire league and you can forget about getting any transactions done from team to team.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Huh?

    I'm just saying if we sign him, we should never forget why.....and maybe do something as a fanbase like donation or something to the family. I dunno, juts be respecectful is all, I guess considering the circumstances.
     
  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    There are ways around the UDFA limit, I'm sure.
     
  38. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    #2 GM's and owners haven't agreed on anything let alone mutually agreed on not signing him. They were all mutually scared about him being the killer.
     
  39. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Only if Pouncey wears a "Free Collins" hat.
     
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  40. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Yeah. I don't think he wasn't drafted because of this murder. I think he told teams I wont play unless I get paid. Seems to mehe doesn't want to play for league minimum and I don't think league rules allow you to overpay for him. He might have to sue the NFL to get into next years draft
     

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