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What to do with Dion Jordan?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by zwave21, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Think it's clear to see the Dion Jordan experiment may be coming to an end. Regardless of your feeling on the situation for as much as the coaching staff struggled to find the right way to use him, it's more than obvious Jordan's desire to be great is not that strong.

    Still, I don't think it's smart to cut him outright, and I'd hope to see them entertain some offers for him. A year ago there was talk of a potential 2nd round deal for Dion from Philly. I very much doubt that he garner a 2nd but a mid round or for a player of equal value could be done.

    Teams Who Could Be Interested?
    • Philadelphia Eagles
    • Green Bay Packers
    • Pittsburgh Steelers
    • Washington Redskins

    I'd rank the Eagles the most likely out of the group for multiple reasons.
    1. Oregon Connection - rumors were Jordan was going #4 overall to Philly in 2013 before we took him
    2. Philly's roster purge - whatever you want to call it but when Kelly got the keys to the car, he insisted on this roster becoming his and his alone
    3. Dolphins need for more picks - exchanging our 3rd and Ellerbe for Stills is a trade I'd do any day especially the cap space, but Phins need more picks
    4. Philly's desire to move up - Whether it's Mariota or not I think that Philly wants to move up and 6 spots would be more than enough to get there guy

    So what players could we get from Philly in return?
    • Brandon Boykin - rumored in past Phins were interested and Philly was taking calls for him. I like Boykin and wouldn't be mad by adding him but he is another 5'9" slot corner we have one of those already in McCain
    • Mychal Kendricks - Eagles have Kiko, Demeco, and signed Brad Smith from GB. Kendricks seems like odd man out and he'd be my preference on any potential player from Philly. 24 years old and would address our ILB need.
    • Vinny Curry - never has fit in Kelly's defensive scheme, but Curry is productive
    • Evan Mathis - we've spoke to them multiple times about Mathis but due to his age and contract I'd rather not trade for him and wait for him to be cut if need be

    I don't think a Kendricks for Jordan trade would be possible but in a draft pick deal think we could see that happening.

    Right now with the Eagles sitting at #20 and possibly looking to move up to draft a Arik Armstead, Landon Collins, Nelson Algholor.

    Dolphins sitting at #14 and looking to add more picks. Dropping from #14 to #20 could prove to be costly for the Dolphins but for right trade we could really fill out this roster the right way.

    The Trade:

    Miami Offers: #14 overall pick and Dion Jordan

    Philadelphia Offers: #20 overall pick, Mychal Kendricks, and 4th round pick

    Why for each team?

    Miami - Dolphins need to address OG, ILB, WR, CB, RB in the draft. Going to be tough to do that without a full stable of picks. By dropping to #20 they get a chance to add a starting caliber ILB in Kendricks, only 24 years old a real playmaker in the middle who will fit with Jelani so well. We also stay in the top #20 range that should give us a chance to address CB (Johnson, Rowe, Peters) or WR (DGB, Strong, Algholor, Perriman, Dorsett) or RB (Gordon) or OG (Fisher, Flowers, Humphries). Also I don't think the trade is enough to replace our 3rd round pick but I do think a 4th or at worst one of the Eagles 5th rounders would suffice.

    Philadelphia - Kelly loves guys that fit his system. Jordan was that type, and still could be. Conor Barwin and Brandon Graham are starters but Dion could rotate in nicely with them. OLB is a need for them and to get one at a 4th round value essentially a win for them. Also the need to rid the roster of some of its depth like Kendricks is a win for the Eagles as well. Player for Player Kendricks is better than Jordan but then to move up to #14 that could be a gamebreaker. The may not get Mariota but they can get another player they'd desire.
     
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  2. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I appreciate the effort but at this stage I'm not sure Jordan is worth jack squat. If the Eagles or another teams want him their not going to have to offer much and potentially nothing.
     
  3. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    We'd be lucky to get a fifth round pick for him at this point.
     
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  4. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We'll probably wind up cutting him.
     
  5. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    If he is tested and fails his drug test his probable suspension will be one year.
    Maybe he will be included as an add on in a possible draft day trade but he is pretty much worthless right now.

    My guess is that he will be out of the NFL soon.
     
  6. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I always scratch my head when people suggest we can get a fourth round pick. Do you guys realize where he stands now that he has failed two drug tests? Next one hes done for the year, his valuebwill always be sixth round pick or worse.
     
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  7. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    what a disappointment and waste of opportunity

    Another example of athletes across sports who are at a very in- mature age given millions with no guidance or help investing, etc

    Some are surrounded by "their entourage" or "posse" and squander it away

    Maybe this is time for the Player league to step up and set up some type of program to help these guys
     
  8. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Firstly, there are a host of teams in the NFL that run a 3-4 defense that would love to get their hands on a prospect like Dion Jordan. He certainly has some trade value at this point because of that fact. He showed flashes in 2013 of being able to come in and make an impact. He then took a step back in 2014 with his suspension and the failed attempt to play at a heavier weight, a fact which only further verifies Dion Jordan being a 3-4 OLB.

    Dion Jordan's value is going to be subjective depending on how teams evaluated him as a prospect coming out of college in 2013 and how they view his first two years in the league. Personally, I think the majority of teams would find it pretty easy to overlook Dion Jordan's disappointing tenure in Miami as being primarily a reflection of poor scheme fit.

    The off-field issues with Dion Jordan are really what hurt Miami's leverage but it's not violent altercations or domestic abuse we're talking about. We talking about a couple failed drug tests, offenses which are not that uncommon these days in the NFL. Thus teams are going to look at that and value it differently according to their needs and what coaches they have in the building that can work with Dion Jordan.



    I haven't seen any real evidence to support this idea that Philadelphia wants Dion Jordan more than everyone else. When fans link Chip Kelly and Dion Jordan citing the "Oregon connection" it comes off as kind of lazy to me. There's no more logic to it other than the superficial connection, which doesn't really mean anything at the end of the day. What does mean something is that Philadelphia has a need at OLB and surely wants to increase the talent in its current stable of edge rushers. Dion Jordan would definitely help with that, but I doubt the Oregon connection means a damn thing to them two years removed him Jordan being drafted.

    If we zoom out for a moment, we can look at all the teams around the league that run a 3-4 and start to investigate which might be interested in a player like Dion Jordan.


    There are several teams that have installed new DCs and will be looking to acquire 3-4 OLBs that can make an impact in rushing the QB:

    Team (draft spot)

    1) Bears (7)
    2) Cardinals (24)
    3) Titans (2)
    4) Redskins (5)
    5) Broncos (28)
    6) Steelers (22)
    7) 49ers (15)
    8) Chargers (17)

    There are also several teams that simply need to add talent to their existing roster at the 3-4 OLB position:

    1) Saints (13)
    2) Eagles (20)
    3) Chiefs (18)
    4) Ravens (26)


    One scenario that is a little curious would be Miami moving up in the draft to take a premier WR. With the Bears at pick #7 badly needing explosive edge rushers, they will be closely monitoring Dante Fowler Jr., Vic Beasley and Randy Gregory, but with the Titans and Redskins both selecting top 5, it's likely that Beasley and Fowler will be off the board and the Bears will be settling for Gregory or Dupree. When you're at pick #7 you don't want to settle for the 3rd or 4th best anything so I think the Bears will either shift their focus or attempt to trade back.

    Miami may be able to construct a package that includes the #14 pick along with Dion Jordan and other picks to make that happen. The irony of the Dolphins packaging Dion Jordan in an attempt to move up would be almost too much to take for us fans, however I think Miami definitely does want a WR badly enough to consider a trade-up and I think the Bears are would love to able to use their #7 pick for the BPA. I think it's fair to say that at this point Dion Jordan is probably still as good a physical prospect than Randy Gregory or Bud Dupree. Would the Bears be interested given their needs and Jon Fox's leadership? Probably not, but like many scenarios, it's conceivable.


    There are obviously also a host of other teams that could be involved in some sort of multi-pick deal that included both Miami's #14 pick and Dion Jordan but I doubt that happens due to the complexity involved and the short-term, draft-week or draft-day analysis that's going on here.
     
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  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The OP didn't say DJ = 4th rd pick.
     
  10. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Completely understand he has baggage but come on this is the NFL not the church choir. We have domestic abusers getting contracts, child beaters potentially making $12mil. I don't think it's too unreasonable considering last year it was Brandon Graham and a 2nd for Dion (wish we would've done that).

    Again, the reason it's a 4th is due to the trade up to #14 as well as Kelly's desire to add HIS guys.
     
  11. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    While it may be old news there is certainly reason to believe Philly would have the most interest because they've offered Phins a deal before for Dion. Now that was a year ago and were talking a 2nd and Graham for him. Also, the fact he would've been Philly's pick if we didn't move up in 2013. But, I can see your point in the fact there could be other teams.

    Don't hate that scenario at all with the Bears if it means getting White or Cooper. Not doing it for Parker or anyone else. I do think Dion is as good as Gregory but not Dupree. I think Dupree could be the guy in two to three years who is the best of this pass rush class.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, his downside was always Manny Lawson, roll with that instead of what Cautious Joe usually does and jettison him
     
  13. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Miami is certainly not going to trade up to select Devante Parker. I just don't see any way of that happening. I'm not sure Parker is a top-15 pick at all to be honest, let alone someone Miami would have to move up for. I would be shocked if Miami felt they had to move up for that kind of prospect. That feels too much like Ted Ginn Jr in 2007. That would indicate they targeted Parker and were making big projections based on a lot of assumptions and that's a bad thing. I think Miami wants either Cooper or White and my money is on White.

    I think Kevin White is the closest thing in this draft to a star WR. Cooper is too small to be a sure thing. Cooper could be the next Jordy Nelson or he could be the next Michael Crabtree and I don't see how the heck you can tell. Kevin White on the other hand is less likely to bust in my view just because of the physical attributes. White has the speed, the size, the hands, and the leaping ability to step in and be a feature player. I've yet to hear any knocks on White or Cooper in terms of work ethic so I defer to the guy who is a better physical prospect.

    As I've said before, I don't think anyone in this draft is going to be Julio Jones or Sammy Watkins or Odell Beckham Jr, but Kevin White could do for someone what Kelvin Benjamin did for the Panthers and that's would work well for Miami given their current roster.

    The only problem with the trade up to #7 is that the Bears would ask for another pick and they'd probably push for Miami's 3rd this year or a 2nd/3rd in next year's draft, which I highly doubt the team would want to give up. I think something like that could happen if the Raiders take Amari Cooper and Kevin White is sitting there at #7. I think Miami would at least make a phone call in that instance.
     
  14. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think the measureables are significantly different between White and Cooper. These numbers are right off the draft profile website, but I have seen White on ESPN listed as 6' 2 1/2" and Cooper listed at over 6'1". Less than a tenth difference in the 40 with Cooper having better agility times in the 20 yard shuttle and 3 cone.

    White Height 6'3" Weight 215 Arms 32 5/8" Hands 9 1/4"


    Cooper Height 6'1" Weight 211 Arms 31 1/2" Hands 10"
     
  15. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure what the implication is there but they are very, very different players whether the numbers listed their show it or not.

    Beginning with the ruler, White is a little taller, White is a little thicker, White has longer arms, White jumps slightly higher and White leaps a little further. Add all that up and I think it does indeed show the contrast between the two WRs. Both are talented players and worthy top-10 picks but they are different guys, rest assured.

    A lot of the difference is more clearly visible in watching them play.

    Kevin White is a much more physical player who has demonstrated an exceptional ability to use his hands and his size to negate what DBs are doing against him down-field. For that reason, I think Kevin White will comfortably transition into the NFL in the same way Watkins and Evans did last year. Maybe he won't be quite as good but at least he's big and he plays like it.

    Amari Cooper on the other hand is more polished getting off the line and working inside of 15 yards. I'm not sure if that means much to Miami who already has Jarvis Landry underneath and Kenny Stills who is another medium-sized guy with good speed.

    If we forget about Greg Jennings for a second and realize that a top-10 WR would be a long-term investment for the Dolphins' offense, we can see how Miami's clearly looking for that X/Split-End to complement Stills as the Z/Flanker and Landry as the slot. Jennings would have been a great X is Miami had a time machine to make him 10 years younger.

    Brian Hartline failed to live up to what Miami's offense needed last year largely because while he was a great route runner, he lacked size and physicality to cleanly get off the line and the deep speed to get open. So if Miami has a need at WR, it's really for a bigger and more physical X receiver. That certainly could be Amari Cooper because he's very quick on the line and does have the speed that Hartline flashed early. Cooper is a very similar prospect to Crabtree. If Miami went with Amari Cooper, they'd be taking a guy who plays fast like Jarvis Landry but who is only slightly bigger/faster so with Cooper, Stills and Landry they'd have a distinct set of WRs comprised mostly of smaller, faster players.

    Now, if they went with Kevin White they'd be adding something they definitely don't have. So if Miami was trading up for a WR, it's going to come down to how the coaches think they need to move forward with the WR-corp, or if they feel that one prospect is significantly safer than the other.

    So I'm not sure if Cooper makes as much sense for Miami as White given that they're both otherwise great prospects.

    Plus, when Cooper faces more physical coverage, more hand fighting, more intelligent DBs, who's he going to be? There's certainly a possibility that Cooper could really struggle to improve and couple level off, eventually turning into Hartline or Crabtree. It's unlikely that Cooper does struggle but White has less uncertainty in that area because of how he plays and his numerous (slight) advantages listed above.

    If Miami wants to diversify their WR-corp and go after the bigger target who can high-point the ball and contest against more physical NFL DBs, they'll go Kevin White. If they want speed and wiggle and a smaller frame and more YAC, they'll go Amari Cooper.

    It all comes down to what Miami wants. They may completely agree with what I'm saying and use that in support of why Amari Cooper has to be the guy. For me, I see it the other way, I think Miami lacks a bigger, more physical possession WR and that's Kevin White. The fact Kevin White could turn out to be someone like Sammy Watkins or Julio Jones is why he's going in the top-10.

    I'm not a genius and I could be wrong. However, Mayock also has White listed as his #1 prospect. All I'm saying is that I concur with that based on what I see and what I think the Dolphins need.
     
  16. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    I really can't make up my mind about Parker. I do like him don't love him and wouldn't mind him but don't need to have him. Cooper too small? I doubt that very much maybe not a physical presence like some other WR's he is the same size at Sammy Watkins. I see Cooper as a Reggie Wayne type player great route running, strong hands, and deceptively fast. I like White but not to trade up for.

    Not a huge fan of Sammy Watkins never have been. How I'd rank the 2014 Class 1. Beckham 2. Evans 3. Benjamin 4. Watkins 5. Landry 6. Cooks 7. Adams 8. Matthews 9. Robinson 10. Moncrief

    I hope they are making calls, Tannebaum is infamous for trading up he has never traded down.

    I've started to grow on the thought of Perriman or Algohlor or Strong. Maybe not at #14 but in a trade back.
     
  17. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    With all of the Todd Gurley talk, I think it's quite possible they are baiting some other team into trading up, as speculated by a few beat writers. While I think they truly like Todd Gurley and won't hesitate to pick him if he's the BPA, he might not be the player they are targeting with the 14th pick.

    Let's think about the possible reasons for talking up Gurley:

    1) Either it gets some team who really wants him to trade up with us (which is probably the best scenario), or
    2) It makes that team trade up to another spot higher than ours, and consequently pushes down our "real" target towards us.

    The only realistic players that I can see us taking in that second scenario would be someone like Brandon Scherff or a defensive player like Trae Waynes, either of which may be the true number 1 target at the 14th pick. I think White and Cooper will be gone regardless... I'd be happy with Waynes there, but Scherff would make me kind of queasy, borrowing from Philbin. Hey, at least we would finally not have to worry about our OL this upcoming season, and might even have a future LT, so there are a few positves to taking Scherff... :confused2:
     
  18. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Cut him.
     
  19. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    i havent gone through any tape on Jordan, but here are my observations about the times I have remembered seeing him on the field.
    1) He can't beat a block, he basically has to run around a blocker if he is a chance to make a play.
    2) He has amazing athletic ability on the open field, but nothing stands out about his agility on confined spaces.
    3) His situational awareness is pretty poor, and more than once I have seen the opposition make a big gain because he ran himself out of position.
    4) I haven't noticed any real strength or power in his tackling.
    5) He doesn't seem very disciplined about containment.

    I don't have a lot of faith in this staff, especially when it comes to putting the best players at a position on the field. However, I would be terrified at the prospect of Dion Jordan starting for an extended period at OLB. The only thing I'd rate him as being better than average at is man coverage on TEs downfield. He is a liability at rush defence and for pass rush

    Basically I see a bigger version of Jason Allen. A tremendously physically gifted athlete who can make plays when unblocked and not required to play within a scheme, but who lacks the mental capacity and discipline to make plays that require technical expertise.
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO, unless there are issues that could lead to suspension, I think Chipper has a big enough ego that he can make a good pro player out of Jordan and will have the common sense to stand him up at OLB and use him like he did at Oregon. Not try to make him a down DE like Philbo and Coyle stubbornly kept trying to do. If Jordan's troubles, whatever they may exactly be, do not prevent him from playing, I won't be surprised if Chip makes some kind of offer. I originally hoped we could swap him and 14 for Mychal Kendricks and 20, but that is likely doubtful now. If we could get Brandon Boykin straight across maybe better take it. The thing is Chip may just hold out and wait for him to get cut. Another option maybe trade him straight across for Evan Mathis whom it was rumored could be gotten for a 5. With Mathis though one would inherit a good sized cap hit and he thinks he deserves a pay raise too.
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I do not see either of those players in Cooper. He seems most similar to Marvin Harrison IMO.
     
  22. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Bras,

    I agree completely and it's smart strategy. Mr. T and Hickey have done a good job with visits and workouts on players that other teams may be interested in .

    Plenty of teams would be interested and wanting him, and I have 0 problem with using this bait for a trade and yielding a few picks in the end. Dallas is a team that could be interested in a trade up situation and dropping from #14 to #27 would yield multiple picks.

    Rather have Collins than Scherff to be honest. Also rather have someone like Peters or Johnson in trade down than Waynes.
     
  23. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    First I want to say I hated this trade from day one. With that being said if the Eagles want him they can have him. Other then that I would move him to LB and give him a chance to shine.
     
  24. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually, I really like the comparison of Cooper to Wayne. I agree with that and I think a young Reggie Wayne would be a great fit for Miami’s offense. To be fair though, there are dozens of players who we might compare to Cooper and would have helped Miami in their prime. Cooper’s physical traits are certainly special but they aren’t unique at the NFL level.

    I brought up the name Jordy Nelson not because he and Cooper are identical but because (1) he is another fast but average-size WR and (2) because he plays in a pass-first offense similar to what I believe Miami is building. Is Nelson elite by himself or is he merely another good WR producing elite numbers because he happens to play in a certain WR-friendly environment?

    I guess once you draw comparison to someone like Reggie Wayne (or anyone else), the follow-up questions pertain to the QB and the offense. What would the name Reggie Wayne mean if it was linked to Tannehill instead of Manning? That’s where I hesitate. Wayne was never really dominant but he racked up enough stats playing with Manning and Harrison that he’s a future Hall of Famer. However, shy of drafting the next physical-freak WR, I don’t think any WR playing with Tannehill in this offense will be considered elite, let alone wind up in the HoF. I’m not a Tannehill detractor, I just don’t think he elevates those around him the way Manning, Rodgers, Brees and Brady do.

    So if Miami does want to add a 1st-round WR I think they'll be more attracted to prospects that transcend the system and QB as much as possible and that points more towards Kevin White or Devante Parker than Amari Cooper.

    When I look at what kinds of WRs have been “worthy” of their high draft status despite not having played with Brady, Manning, Rodgers or Brees, I see Julio Jones paired with Matt Ryan in Atlanta, Calvin Johnson paired with Matt Stafford in Detroit, AJ Green paired with Andy Dalton in Cincinnati, Dez Bryant paired with Tony Romo in Detriot, Sammy Watkins paired with Kyle Orton in Buffalo, Beckham Jr paired with Eli Manning in NY, Evans paired with whoever in Tampa, etc, etc, etc.

    The link between all those WRs is that they play big. They are either thick, big-bodied guys (Dez, Calvin, Watkins, Evans, etc) or great hand-fighters who can high-point the ball and out-leap DBs exceptionally well (Green, Jones, Beckham, etc.). Kevin White would fit on that list easily and Parker has a chance to while Amari Cooper would be more like Reggie Wayne.

    If Miami wants to find a Reggie Wayne or Jordy Nelson type of WR, I doubt they reach on a prospect in the first round.

    Much of what Cooper does would translate well into the X position in Miami, but I also see a very real possibility that he never lives up to expectations because people are only making comparisons to similarly-sized WRs who played with elite QBs.

    So to me, there’s a bit of a question there—would you rather draft someone who has the potential to become a bigger, more dominant WR and thus shoulder more of the load in the eventual QB-WR relationship? Given that the Dolphins have Tannehill as opposed to Peyton or Brees, I’d say yes.

    That’s why I said ‘Kevin White could do what Kelvin Benjamin did for Carolina,’ which is step in and be productive in an environment that lacks a truly elite passer.
     
  25. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Special = yes, Unique = not really, I completely agree. I can see the Jordy in some instances and in truth I doubt Jordy all the time but the kid can really play.

    I agree with pretty much all of this and looking at our core as it stands today. We have our inside guy in Landry who can get YAC and should probably catch 85+ balls. Stills is our intermediate to deep threat with his speed, and he will eat on out routes with RT17's sideline throws. Cameron is our seam threat and red zone target. Jennings is our possession guy and savy veteran.

    I do think we need an aerial WR who plays BIG. While Tannehill may not elevate like the aforementioned there is no reason to believe with the right parts he can't be a Playoff Winning QB.

    In this year's class WR's who play BIG or would fit that need:
    White, Parker, Strong, DGB, Perriman, Coates, Funchess, McBride.

    But, I do like Cooper, Agholor, Smith and Dorsett.

    Agreed Kevin White could do that but I just don't see the opportunity where he'd fall past Top 5 where we could be in play.
     
  26. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

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    I hear Lawrence Phillips needs a new cellmate?????
     
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  27. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    We could salvage some value if we can get him a role as Keith David's son in something. Maybe get 15% of his paycheck for it.

    Dion Jordan
    [​IMG]



    Keith David
    [​IMG]
     
  28. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    He will be on the pats in 2 years killing us.
     
  29. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I think this puts to much on measurables as an indicator of "upside." The best WR of all time, Jerry Rice, did not have amazing size or measurable. Physically, Cooper is roughly comparable. Same with a guy like Torry Holt. System and QB will always be a big factor in WR production, but I think Cooper can absolutely put up huge numbers in the right system and with the right QB. And if he doesn't have a system or QB conducive to putting up great numbers, he won't. But it won't have anything to do with measurables.
     
  30. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well that's exactly what I'm saying. People are going to cite all these medium-size WRs who have quickness and some degree of speed but most are linked to great systems and great QBs.

    What about Jerry Rice? Well, he had Joe Montana and Bill Walsh.
    What about Jordy Nelson? Well, he has Aaron Rodgers.
    What about Torry Holt? Well, he had Kurt Warner.
    What about Reggie Wayne? Well, he had Peyton Manning.

    This is why I said that there are tons of guys you could compare to Amari Cooper. I don't think Miami has the system or the QB to make Amari Cooper into the guy most people are dreaming of.
     
  31. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I was only outlining a hypothetical scenario which involved Fowler and Beasley coming off the board early, White falling to the Bears at #7, Miami trading up and the Bears being interested in acquiring Dion Jordan. That’s all very unlikely, but it does make just a little sense. I mean…you could write the story is all. The Bears are looking for young 3-4 edge rushers and I’m sure Miami has investigated the possibility of a trade-up.

    But yes, realistically, there is a very low probability that Kevin White ends up a Dolphin. In fact, the signing of Greg Jennings just before the draft may be a sign the Dolphins don’t think they’ll have an opportunity to grab a top WR. It’s likely they’ve already reached out to discuss the price of moving up. If they waited and waited and waited and finally pounced on Jennings the week before the draft, that’s very telling. I’m guessing the rumors we heard about Miami wanting a top WR weren’t just smoke and that a possible deal probably fell through with some team in the top-10.

    If Miami doesn’t trade up, the best they can hope for is a developmental player like Parker who would take a couple years to really round into form. With any of this year’s WRs not named Cooper or White, teams won’t really know what they’ve got until after these guys have had at least a year to bulk up and/or work on their route running, separation and hand-fighting. When I see Parker, Funchess, Coates, etc, I don’t think instant Pro Bowler as much as I do raw prospect.

    Therefore, if Miami picks at #14 I think it’s either (1) Trae Waynes, (2) Devante Parker, (3) Todd Gurley or (4) Guard. If I had to guess I’d say Miami is leaning towards Waynes or Gurley because they’re just better talent whereas Parker and Guard are strictly needs, Guard more so.

    All four make sense. At least 2 out of the 4 will likely drop to #14 so Miami’s decision may come down to just a couple guys. I could even see Miami trading back a few spots just to pick up something all while letting the board make their decision. I think Miami would happily take any one of those, but they probably want to trade back a few spots if they can do that as well.
     
  32. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    More like Kurt Warner had Torry Holt.
     
  33. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, either way Ryan Tannehill isn't the equal of any QB on that list and that's the point.
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think he could be equal to Kurt Warner.

    He is good enough to take advantage of having two hall of fame receivers.
     
  35. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Haha, I do not think that the Greatest Show on Turf Rams would have been the same if you injected Tannehill...I'm sorry. :)

    Kurt Warner took 2 different franchises out of the depths and to the Super Bowl. Tannehill has barely entered the league and proven he can play in comparison. When Tannehill makes it to the Play-offs twice, we'll talk. ;)

    C'mon, you joking here? Kurt Warner should be in the Hall of Fame alongside his talented WRs considering his career accomplishments. Tannehill has 3 seasons in the league so far all of which are 8-8 or worse...let's pump the brakes a little, lol!


    I mean...at least show some respect for Kurt Warner. Straight from Wiki:


    • Most yards passing in a Super Bowl game – 414 yards (against Tennessee Titans)[SUP][56][/SUP][SUP][57][/SUP]
    • Three highest passing yardage totals in Super Bowl history: Warner also owns the 2nd highest (377 yards against Pittsburgh in Super Bowl XLIII) and 3rd highest (365 yards against New England in Super Bowl XXXVI) passing yardage totals in Super Bowl history.[SUP][58][/SUP]
    • Only quarterback to throw 400+ yards in a Super Bowl game
    • Most touchdown passes in a single postseason – 11 touchdowns (in 2009, tied with Joe Montana in 1990 and Joe Flacco in 2013)
    • Most yards passing in a single postseason, 3 games played – 1,063 yards (in 1999)
    • Highest completion percentage in a single game (regular season)(min 20 attempts) – 92.3% (24/26) (9/20/09) [SUP][59][/SUP] (Highest single game completion percentage – Tom Brady 92.9% (26/28) (1/12/08))[SUP][60][/SUP]
    • Highest rate of games with 300+ yards passing (min. 100 games played) – 41.9% (52/124)[SUP][61][/SUP]
    • Most career games with a perfect passer rating (regular season) – 3 games (tied with Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger)[SUP][62][/SUP]
    • Fastest player to pass for 30,000 yards – 114 games (tied with Dan Marino)
    • Fastest player to pass for 10,000 yards[SUP][63][/SUP]
    • Only quarterback to throw for over 14,000 yards with two different teams (St. Louis Rams and Arizona Cardinals)
    • Only quarterback to throw 40 touchdowns and win a Super Bowl in the same season (in 1999)
    • Most yards passing in the first four games of a season – 1557 yards (2000)[SUP][64][/SUP]
    • Most yards passing in the first five games of a season – 1947 yards (2000)[SUP][65][/SUP]
    • Most yards passing in the first six games of a season – 2260 yards (2000)[SUP][66][/SUP]
    • Highest average passing yards per game on Monday Night Football – 329.4 yards (min 7 games)
    Warner shares several records:

    • One of 3 quarterbacks to throw 100 touchdown passes with two different teams (Fran Tarkenton and Peyton Manning)[SUP][67][/SUP]
    • One of 2 quarterbacks Tied to throw 5 touchdown passes in two different playoff games – (following Daryle Lamonica)
    • One of 2 quarterbacks to complete 80% of his passes in two playoff games (tied with Tom Brady)[SUP][68][/SUP]
    • One of 2 quarterbacks with 4 consecutive games with a passer rating over 120 (in 2009, tied with Johnny Unitas)
    • One of 3 quarterbacks to make Super Bowl starts with two different teams – (with Craig Morton – Dallas Cowboys (in 1970) and Denver Broncos (in 1977) and Peyton Manning - Indianapolis Colts (in 2006 and 2009) and Denver Broncos (in 2013))
    • One of 4 quarterbacks to win a Conference championship with two different teams (with Craig Morton and Earl Morrall and Peyton Manning)
    Warner also ranks second in several categories:

    • 2nd highest career completion percentage (Min. 1500 attempts) – 65.5 (Chad Pennington, 66.0)
    • 2nd highest career passing yards per game (Min. 100 games) – 260.4 yards/game (Peyton Manning is first)[SUP][69][/SUP]
    • 2nd highest career passing yards in Super Bowl history – 1,156 yards (Tom Brady, 1,277 yards)
    • 2nd highest career completion percentage, playoffs – 66.5 (Drew Brees, 66.7)



    If ANY of that says Ryan Tannehill to you...I want some of what you're smoking!!!!!!!
     
  36. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Greg, got to ask man cause it seems you are not a Tannehill fan. What's the deal? What don't you like, etc?

    IMO, I think he is a developing QB. Do I think he is Elite...Nope. But, I do think he has the ability to become a Pro Bowl Caliber QB who can lead us to the playoffs. I will say I agree with you in a sense of does he raise the talent around him, as that has not been consistently evident.

    A Kurt Warner comparison isn't fair to either player and not really even a question. Warner proved to be an exceptional QB and HOF worthy. If he had a full career... wow that could've been special. But, please do not put him in the Elite Category of All Time Greats. He should NOT be mentioned with Montana, Brady, Unitas. That 1999 Rams team was loaded as was every team he played on there. Don't forget his struggles with NYG but his renaissance in AZ was impressive. He was a big time player in big games though.... one thing our guy has yet to show.

    Back to RT17, you mention his record but a QB can only do so much. Take a look at his 2012 team... take a look at his WR's hahaha you kidding me thinking he could be (Hartline/Bess/Fasano/Marlon Moore). The fact they went 7-9 is a good thing in itself.

    Year 2, he gets some new shiny toys but is still hampered with a stagnant OC oh and don't forget the worst OL in the NFL. That would repeat in year 3.

    The guy has been sacked 104 times over the past two years and has improved statistically in each season. Now I am not pounding the table to draft OL round 1 but solidifying that part of our offense could put us into new territory the playoffs.

    Again, I do have my reservations with our QB especially in big games and 4th quarter but I like the improvement being made and I like the FO and the pieces they are putting around him. Chemistry will certainly have to be created but I like this core regardless of WR's coming in the draft much better than any core he has had.
     
  37. Dolphinzdawgg

    Dolphinzdawgg Banned

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    I highly doubt it now.....
     
  38. Undisputed

    Undisputed Banned

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    Only the most basic football knowledge uses wins and playoff appearances to rate a QB.

    It's easy to look at one player being responsible for the whole team.

    Doesn't require effort.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  39. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Just cut him and accept that he was a waste of a first and second round pick. No team is going to offer anything for a player who has proved nothing on the field and now has three positive drug tests.

    I doubt even Kelly would have any interest in signing Jordan as a free agent at this point in his career. So there is no chance the Eagles or any other team are going to trade for Jordan.
     
  40. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    The great passing offenses happen because of great systems, QBs and WRs. They don't happen because of one giant fast receiver. Yes, there have been big receivers who have been force-fed the ball and put up great numbers without elite QBs but there have been small to medium-sized guys who have done that too. As much as people fantasize about these giant WRs winning jump ball after jump ball, those plays that a medium sized receiver wouldn't also have made happen maybe 2-3 times a year tops. We are talking about 2-3 inches -- a tiny amount.
     

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