Not really, because Ingram does not complement Miller. Moreno did. Maybe Williams can eventually? The thing with Miller is that his stats suggest he does not do well later in the game. I will admit, Miller did a helluva lot better than I thought, but there was a little lost fire come the 4th quarter. This is where that bigger back can come in and close the deal. Keeping the ball out of the opponents hands late in games is where Miami failed several times last year. This team will absolutely benefit from a bigger back who can take the hits, but also Miller benefits because he is not necessarily the "feature" anymore. I cannot stress enough that Ingram is not that guy who will mesh well with Miller, or this team. Ingram wants to be the feature, and his sideline rants definitely show it. He is a 'me' guy, not a team guy. I remember one of his rookie TDs where he held the ball in front of the defender's face after scoring as if he was back in high school. Ingram did squat that year, yet he was acting like he was the big man on campus. He has had a game with 30 carries this year, and actually still looked fresh. But he was also injured during a stretch of games before that, and his ypc that game was uninspiring. The Saints used him because they had to use him. Yes, he had a few good scoring games, but I do not think if he had too many runs >20 yds this season because he has no wiggle or speed. Many, many times the first defender brings him down. I just do not see what people see in him if they had actually watched the games and not just looked at stat lines. He is not a good back. I'm not arguing ya here, Piston, but I have seen way too much of Ingram (on TV and in person) to come away with a fair assessment on this guy. He also has an injury history. I usually do not speak heavily about players because there are a bunch of y'all on here who have more time and understanding, but on this guy, I am convinced he is not the back we want on this team, and I hope the guys who make that decision come away with the same feeling.
You sound like a guy who just doesnt like him on a personal level. What I saw on tape from last years playoff games until now is a runner who runs hungry and tough and diagnoses running lanes really well and gets to the second line of defense really well. I can argue that if Ingram stays healthy this year, the Saints would of won the NFC South. Scratch that, I guarantee they would of won because when he was hurt, the Saints offense was hurting and it showed.
Relax, he isn't THAT good. We don't even know if he'll be here long term, I believe he's a FA after next season, we'll probably have a new staff and GM by then, so who knows '15 might be his last year here. Let's just draft Melvin Gordon.
If you are looking at highlights, then of course, you will see some good runs. That's kind of the point of highlights. If you are "looking at tape", you will see a good number of his runs are just, meh. Your argument that the Saints would have won the NFC South is not very convincing given they were 4-5 in the games he started. In his four years in the league, he has played in 16 games in exactly one season. This is a guy who has never had a 1,000 yd season, and other than that one year of playing in 16 games (not last year), he averaged about 11 games played per season. Want to talk about an injury history that spans all the way back to his days at Alabama? He has that, too. We tried a back with an injury history in Moreno. But at least Moreno changed the offense. I am not sure that Ingram does that. He is not a big back. He has an injury history. He is not very fast. And this guy wants to get paid. Maybe he moves to another team and pulls a Justin Forsett? I highly doubt it. There are reasons the Saints needed Ingram to be a feature back this year. One, Drew Brees has not been quite as good as in years past, and the Saints needed to have another part of their offense click. Two things in the past few years that you didn't say in the same sentence were "Saints" and "great running game". I mean, why would you? With Drew Brees, Jimmy Graham, Marques Colston; they had a fantastic passing attack. But if you look closely, the end of 2013 and in some spurts in 2014, Drew Brees looked like he didn't trust his throws. His arm, you know, the same one with the surgically repaired shoulder, looks like it is not quite the same as it once was. Brees actually looked stronger when he came back from surgery. His age, maybe fatigue, and the inevitable difference from surgery may be showing some signs of catching up with him. I think the Saints figured this into their plans four years ago when they drafted Ingram. You have a running game, you reduce the stress on your QB and his arm. You also add another weapon to an already dynamic offense. The forced running with Ingram this year, I believe, had a lot to do with these things. The Saints also had to find out what they had in Ingram. They now know better than anyone. And if they do not find a way to keep him, well, there ya go. Ingram looked really good in college, but I kind of wonder if he gave us a little Emmitt Smith in college, where the line really advanced his running game? The Saints aren't built that way, and when defenders go their hands on him (which was usually early in the play), he seemed to almost give up. There were small DB arm tackles he didn't break on more than one occasion, and for all of his supposed power, it really did did not show up much in 2014. On a "personal level", I really should like Ingram because I picked him up on waivers in my FF league and he helped lock up a few games for me. My best bud, who is a strong Saints fan, asked me to really watch him closely because he did not think Ingram was anything special. I do not hold personal grudges against players because, quite frankly, I could care less about them because they do not affect my personal life (save a meaningless FF league). So, I watched. I watched him closely, and finally saw what he saw, a back who is okay, but not one you would build an offense around. He is merely a piece, and not a great one. I did not see power, speed, or a back who had the greatest hands out of the backfield. Honestly, he is just 'okay', and for an okay back, I just do not think he is worth it. And THIS is my biggest problem with Ingram: I think he wants top money, and he is not a top-money back. If you feel differently about him, that's quite alright. But to suggest I dislike a person who I have never met is not the way I work. I just do not think he is a very good back, or a back that would help this team. If Miami signs him, I would be disappointed, but I certainly hope he does well. I am just not sure Miami goes that direction. And I hope they do not.....
An upgrade over 5.1 YPC ? I would like to see that easily replaced, but I think if we add Frank Gore to our RB stable then Miller, Gore, Williams would be a pretty good group, EH ?
I didn't say upgrade 4ever, simply said josh Robinson would round out the stable nicely.. I wouldn't be opposed to gore, he and miller work out together now during the offseason..I just want josh Robinson.
He would complement Miller nicely, he hits the running lane with emphasis, his first few years were awful but he came into his own in last seasons playoffs. I said I watch ''tape'' not ''highlights''. I have NFL Sunday Ticket, I watch almost every game of every team. I'm a FOOTBALL fan, Dolphins just happen to be my favorite team. The guy has been a pretty good runner and he does break tackles despite what you might say. I watch NO games just like you. Also, I don't think anyone here is saying we should build an offense around the guy. We are saying we should bring him in to complement Miller (who also isn't anything special, you **** sure can't say Miller is something ''special'' after saying Ingram isn't ''special'' considering Ingram hits the hole with 2x the force that Miller does).
I agree with LBsFinest, lets just draft Melvin Gordon and get an elite talent in our backfield that can take an immense amount of pressure off our QB, OL, and Receiving core.
I do think we have toget a high level talent at receiver in case this is wallaces's last year..we will need a Kevin white or Parker to pair with landry if he get released next year.
Hmmm, not sure I want to go there for a guy sharing carries. He would bring a lot of professionalism to the team though. Cares for his body like Wake, understands the gift his career is.
I never really said much about Miller other than he surprised me in 2014. I am assuming you are talking about the Seattle game in Jan. '14? I do not recall Ingram's game, but if he had a good one, good. And he had a stretch of good games in '14. But I saw runs where he falls on first contact from smaller DBs. I saw runs where he could not outrun defenses for extra yardage. I saw a guy with no wiggle or open field vision. The Saints' O-line is nothing serious, so they did not really help him out too much, but when he got open, whether it was via run or pass, he was not overly impressive. He is small, and I suggested in another thread that I thought he ran too upright for a guy with his build. I thought that (from the majority of games I saw, which were the last quarter of the season) he could have benefited from running with a lower pad level because he did not look powerful. He looks like he has the potential for power, but the games I saw, he just lacked it. Now maybe he had some games in there where he looked powerful, hit the hole with a head of steam (vs GB maybe?), but this is NOT what you will get consistently from him. Just look at his previous three years. It took a contract year to get his butt in gear (in which he has been quoted as saying he used it as "motivation"), and his ENTIRE body of work in 2014 was just okay. So what happened the previous three awful years? You couldn't beat out a Pierre Thomas?? The Saints would not pick up his fifth year option of $5M, so what is he worth? I read comments where he is obviously proud of his body of work last year, so he thinks he may have some leverage in contract talks. Is he worth $4M? $3M? He has a couple of things going for him: he just turned 25, and he doesn't have a lot of mileage due to his injury history. Are you willing to pay $3M-4M a year (maybe more) for a guy who averages just 12.5 games a year? The money is more of my contention than anything else in this discussion. I am just not sure he is the type of back Miami needs in order to close out games. Miami needs a sledge hammer, not a ball peen. You can go ahead and have the last word. I am not arguing here. Some feel strongly about players, and I totally get it. But I am not putting any more effort into a player who is not even in Miami uni. If he is on Miami's radar and they sign him, I hope he proves me wrong.....
Plenty of players develop later into their careers then others. Also, Ingram is a guy you have to keep feeding so in his first 3 years when the Saints would give him a carry here and there, it was a hard for a player like him to get going, but none of that matters now because he was running harder then most of the backs in the NFL last season and was getting to the second line of defense better then most backs last season despite what you are trying to tell me. I will believe what I saw on tape before I believe what you are trying to tell me.
Why not? They did a good job feeding Knowshon and at the same time kept Miller involved in Week 1 last year, so what wouldnt Lazor be able to do the same this year with Ingram? BTW, I want Melvin Gordon who can just be our elite every down RB, but a Ingram/Miller combo wouldn't be a bad constellation prize.
Miami certainly started the first game giving Miller a series, then Knowshon a series. It kind of became a back-and-forth thing during drives later in the game, and I think this is what Miami wants. Or, at least, wanted last year. Moreno's injury forced the hand on Miller, and likely, forced the hand of Lazor throwing more than he maybe wanted earlier in the year, showcased by the average of nearly 39 pass attempts per game in the first quarter of the season. Breaking down the season by quarters, this was second to only the last quarter where he averaged nearly 42 pass attempts per game. What we saw in the first game is exactly the type of game I think this team wants. Now, with Tannehill's ascension later on, teams now have a little more to worry about because now, you have a QB who can complete passes in bunches. I think this will help the running game, but they are still missing that one back who punishes defenders later in the game and keeps the clock going. Miller certainly isn't that. But Miller can become an exceptional change of pace type of guy who now has rushed for 1,000 yards. So he can become a primary option if one of the 1A guy gets injured. Miami needs a 'vice versa'. I would be fine with a Melvin Gordon as some have suggested. I also hope Miami gets some help along the interior line.
This is how I feel when watching Ingram. He's not fast but he has some burst thru the hole and runs with authority. I all believe that not bring "the guy" hurt his production and attitude. He has a string of games when, due to injury, he was the alpha back and he seemed to raise his level of play significantly. Imo he and Miller would be a nice combo. We MUST run consistently to compete in our division, whether its Ingram or someone else, 30-35 runs should be the goal.
Totally agree on the offensive strategy. Can't have RT dropping back 35+ times every week, that was indeed the plan in 2014 before Moreno went down so I'm confident the staff is already looking at ways to get back to that.
I expected the Fins to at least offer Moreno a vet-minimum contract, but apparently the Fins arent impress with him. I am going to guess it has something to do with his rehab, considering he has recently been spotted working out at a team facility. Fins have the inside scoop on his health, so I trust them on this one. And whoever said Lamar Miller is becoming one of the best backs in the NFL...lets not get carried away.
