Merged: Ahahaha. Once a cheat, always a cheat / DeflateGate

Well, having balls deflated naturally is much different than someone tampering with them post-check. And does not justify the calling for TB or BB to be withheld from the Super Bowl, HoF, or other ridiculous things that were bandied about.

 

I now picture you as Charlie Brown.

 

Of course he denies it now, so would I. Hes saving his *** and letting the league handle it now. Think about it.

 

WTF, man.

It doesn't matter if the balls deflated naturally. It doesn't matter if BB himself invented a weather machine that lowered atmospheric conditions to the point that the footballs magically deflated to to precise decimal amount.

All that matters, is that the balls when effing checked were not regulation. Those are the balls the Pats are responsible for. It is their responsibility to keep them regulation. Do you think if you're speeding because you're going down a hill it matters to the cop pulling you over whether its because of the hill or if the car next to you was speeding before he got to the hill and then slowed down to inside the speed limit?

Now, you want to get into intent, then we can do that, but all you've brought to the goddamned table to prove the Pats intent is a hypothetical of what another team, not the Pats, did or didn't do, maybe or maybe or not. That's not evidence. That's not proof. That's not even a valid goddamned question to ask. It has no bearing on what happened. None.

 

Tapes what tapes?

 

This was taken at Kraft's house BTW.

 

You know you have to have big balls to come out and say that you have done your own investigation and concluded that you had follow the NFL requirements and there is nothing to talk about.
Hernandez should follow the same steps and conclude that he didn't kill anybody and therefore is innocent.
They know nothing is going to come of this and they will claim that spygate was bull**** too.

 

Ask every convict in prison, they will all tell you they are "innocent". Every single one of them.

 

When the Lions played the Pats in Foxboro in 2006, the same thing happened, Sports *Illustrated reported.
“ ‘There’s a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?’ a Lions employee asked in a call to the NFL booth. No, it certainly was not. So the videotaper was stopped. Then after a while he began again,” the magazine reported at the time.
Modal TriggerBrady chats with Belichick.Photo: AP

But it wasn’t just a matter of filming opposing team’s coaches — it was also how that information was allegedly passed to Brady.
As the scandal broke, the NFL was investigating a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during the Jets game, sources told ESPN’s Chris Mortensen, who reported at the time that the Pats did not “have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game.”
Quarterbacks communicate with the sidelines via microphones in their helmets that pick up an NFL-monitored radio frequency. An NFL sideline official cuts off communications on this frequency 15 seconds before the play clock runs out.
O’Leary — who uses data crunched by a Las Vegas bookie and a Ph.D. statistician from China with no previous familiarity with Spygate — suggests Patriots “director of football research” Ernie Adams, a prep-school chum of Belichick from Phillips Academy in Andover, Mass., was the nerve center behind the chicanery.
Offensive plays would be called based on stolen signals and the information relayed straight to Brady’s helmet, O’Leary theorizes.
In this scenario, the extra frequency is critical, as it allows the team to do something in real time with the stolen signals, out of earshot of the NFL monitor, and change its plays accordingly.
If there’s an open channel during the play itself, you can also alert the quarterback to open receivers he may not see.
O’Leary repeats a rumor that Pats backup quarterback Doug Flutie once said he accidentally picked up Brady’s helmet during the 2005 season.
“He was amazed that the coaches kept right on speaking to Brady past the 15-second cutoff, right up until the snap,” *according to O’Leary.
“The voice in Tom Brady’s helmet was explaining the exact defense he was about to face.”
That same year, Pats linebacker Ted Johnson told USA Today that an hour before game time, a list of the opposing team’s audibles — the signals a QB would use at the line of scrimmage just before a snap to change the play — would sometimes appear in his locker. He had no idea where the lists came from. Three years later, he said he was as surprised as anyone to hear about the cheating allegations.
Action from then-rookie  Commissioner Goodell  was suspiciously swift, critics said.


Less than a week after the tape was confiscated, Goodell on Sept. 13 issued an emergency order compelling the Pats to fork over any other tapes. Yet before receiving any of them, he handed down his punishment: taking away the Pats’ first-round draft pick the next year, while fining the team $250,000 and Belichick — who claimed he simply misinterpreted the rulebook and never used video to gain a competitive advantage — the league maximum $500,000.
On Sept. 20, the NFL announced the Pats handed over six tapes and two days later said little about what the recordings contained — only that they had been destroyed.
“When somebody has a hit that looks suspicious, it takes the league three to four days of looking at a tape, then they *issue a fine,” O’Leary said.


http://nypost.com/2014/10/12/they-are-cheaters-spygate-the-nfl-scandal-that-started-it-all/

 

And yet, so much of the **** I've been getting from you and from others is because I've been insistent that the Colts balls could have been deflated, when you all have been crowing about the Colts balls "NOT DEFLATING derp derp derp." All I've been saying is that natural causes very well may be the root of this, and the only way of knowing is to know the measurements of the Colts balls, and how they stored theirs. We can argue all day whether or not allowing nature to deflate the balls is cheating or not.

 

Do you think a cop would care that you are speeding if your car was being pushed by another vehicle so powerful that you could not stop yourself from speeding? According to you, you should still get a speeding ticket, but I doubt any court of law would allow that to stand.

Intent matters, and the way you and Stringer Bell are interpreting the rules makes it impossible for any team to follow the rules if the conditions outside prevent you from keeping the psi in the footballs within 12.5-13.5, unless you tamper with the footballs, which itself is against the rules. Just imagine a situation where it is so cold outside that the footballs will deflate below 12.5 before kickoff but after the refs checked the balls. You are not allowed to reinflate them, thus you are guilty (according to you and Stringer Bell) even though you could do nothing to stop it.

Don't get me wrong, I think the fact that the Colts' balls checked out AND the fact that the Patriots' balls checked out at the end of the game (standard procedure is for the refs to reinflate the balls at halftime if they find the footballs to be underinflated, so I'm assuming that happened) suggests to me it's likely someone on the Pats side tampered with the balls. So, while I am biased towards that hypothesis, I think you're absolutely wrong about intent not being important.

Oh, and the NFL disagrees with you too because they are looking for evidence of tampering. They aren't satisfied that the footballs were found to be under-inflated.

 

What blows my mind is that a convicted cheater has the balls to come out and say he did his own investigation, this is a guy that, the last time he was accused was found guilty he had to pay a fine of $500,000 and the team lost a first round pick. That means he was held personally responsible for cheating he paid the fine.
Having confirmed that he lies, now he expects us believe him.
This ****ing guy has a lot of nerve and is detached from reality.

 

I love that under no circumstances do you in any way suggest any action by the patriots. In no way do you ever entertain even the thought that maybe, just maybe the proven cheaters may be cheating.

It's nature, it's the refs, it's the Colts.

Not the team with the track record of doing things exactly like this inn the past. And any evidence which may suggests so must be strongly scrutinized.

 

Dear god that's just not true.

We have been telling you the Colts didn't deflate their balls to an illegal level. That's all that matters with the Colts. They didn't break any rules. The Pats did.

Natural causes didn't deflate the Colts balls into illegal levels. Your hypothetical is now pointless. It doesn't matter what the Colts balls were before they were checked, because when they were checked they were regulation. the Pats could have taken the same care to ensure their balls did the same. Either they didn't intentionally or unintentionally, but the indisputable fact is that they did not ensure the balls were regulation, which is what you're arguing.

 

Right, and that where we disagree. I think it does matter if the balls deflated due to natural causes. I don't think that constitutes cheating. I had you, and others, yelling at me that the proof of cheating was that the Colts balls didn't deflate...even though you have no proof that they did or didn't deflate. I was never arguing that the Colts balls were deflated below legal levels, that was a strawman in regards to the issue of whether or not they deflated.

 

reps from Wilson who makes the footballs say that belicek story doesn't hold up, I can't find an official release statement but suzy colder just said it.

 

Of course it don't, its the ******* Patriots, they are habitual liars/cheaters, it's part of what they do.

 

Per Mike Francessa on WFAN, NFL has video footage of a locker room attendant carrying the balls from The referees room after they were tested and entered a secluded area instead of bringing the tested balls DIRECTLY TO THE FIELD. This person is of strong interest to the league.

 

Jay Glazer says the NFL's investigation is now zeroing in on one particular Patriots locker room attendant who removed the footballs from the officials' locker room.

Sh-t just got real.

 

Patriots are gonna have the audacity to say the dude acted on his own too, that nobody ever told him to do this, you watch.

Then the dude is gonna write a tell-all book. Or threaten to write one, and receive a big secret settlement from Robert Kraft to never release that book.

 

It shouldn't matter to be honest. He is part of the organization.

 

Goodell will be satisfied to let Kraft punish this one individual and then declare the issue over. And the footage will be destroyed.

 

Here's the problem I have with your argument. We don't have full confirmation of exactly how much those 11 of 12 footballs were under-inflated, but for quite awhile the report was they were up to 2 psi below 12.5, and there's no official word saying it was only 1 psi or less (that I know of).

Well, if as you suggest, the Colts' footballs were at their maximum psi when checked (13.5), and the psi was still within legal limits when checked again (either at halftime or at the end of the game), then that says natural deflation during the game (the actual conditions of the game, not estimated through math or something done in a laboratory) can account for a loss of at most 1 psi.

The question you should be asking is not what the psi of the Colts' footballs were. That's actually irrelevant given that they check out. The question you should be asking is whether the observed deflation of the Patriots' footballs was really significantly greater than 1 psi. Given the information available, it looks like the difference was much greater than 1 psi.

Thus, given the information available, I think your bias should be towards something else in addition to natural causes being responsible for the observed deflation (such as tampering).

 

If the NFL tries to claim the team was not involved in this then they are frauds themselves. No locker room attendant in his right mind would alter the footballs unless directed to do so.

 

Here's what was said. I think the guy from Wilson, is confusing volume with pressure.

Despite reports that the cold weather or a player spiking the ball might have led to the deflation, the only way to remove that much air that quickly would be to put a needle in the valve and to let the air seep out, said Kevin Murphy, who runs the American football division at Wilson.
Wilson, he said, goes to great lengths to ensure the N.F.L. balls do not leak, even in extreme heat or cold. Every ball has a special three-ply urethane bladder inside, and during production, the balls are filled with 100 pounds of air pressure and then deflated to 13 pounds, the amount required for game balls.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/s...d-football-maker-says-wilson-did-its-job.html

 

How ironic would it be if video nailed the Pats??

 

Ah yes. The sacrificial lamb emerges.

 

Unless the attendant crumbles under pressure from the investigators and openly admits he was told to do it.

 

Well, this new info crushes Resnors 'weather argument'.

This guy isnt some rogue employee that is deflating footballs either, its obvious TB12 more then likely told this guy to do this as "that's how he likes his footballs". This random employee would have a lot of balls to just go doing something like this. But ill let the facts come out, although its hard to get the truth when it comes to the Patriots organization.

 

What pressure? The investigators will do what they're told.