I'm out on Tannehill

Sure...but when Albert was healthy, were they able to do more to support James on the right side? I really don't know, in just asking. Would make sense if it was the case. Maybe it wasn't though, maybe he didn't need help over there.

 

C'mon, deej.....it was his first year in this system. It sucks, but I have to say again, we all knew he was developmental coming out of college. I have seen marked improvement from a kid who is playing one of the most complex positions in all of major sports. That, enough, shows for something.

I guess I am cool with Tanny because I do see growth, real growth. I championed Henne when he came onboard because he made some throws not many people make. But he never improved. He'd tease you with a great throw or two in a game, but he never really seemed to take that next step. And he had a supporting cast! Tannehill does not necessarily have all of the pieces to work with.

He does need work, no doubt, but I have faith in the kid because of his improvements. That's all we can ask for given how green he was coming out.

 

It's been much talked about how we abandoned the run in the second half of games, for various argued reasons. Saying Tannehill didn't benefit seems a little preposterous, given that Tannehill had his best year yet.

 

Clay ran pass routes on over 380 plays, 189 of which were run from the slot. He pass blocked on 63 of them all year. And while it was better later in the year, it was clear the OL needed it more later in the year. So to your point, maybe they were doing it to support James on the Left side; they dont really break down which side he was on but as I said, James is a RT not a LT. Thats not really a secret.

Pass blocking numbers: https://www.profootballfocus.com/da...r&season=2014&surn=Clay&playerid=6326&pre=REG
Slot stats and passing route stats: https://www.profootballfocus.com/da...&wk=1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17

Sorry if I came across a bit harsh.

 

So basically if we resigned Clay, we could bring back our entire offense and focus the rest of the resources on upgrading the defense, and maybe have the best chance of making the playoffs.

 

Wallace ranks 8th in the QB passer rating when he is the targeted WR, among all WRs who played in at least 50% of snaps. Throwing to Wallace, RT has a QB rating of like 114. That stat is supplied by PFF, but it isn't some sort of unique rating method they dreamed up.

 

find some oline depth, find 2 guards and fix the defense and then the dolphins are a playoff team. offense could use a big bodies receiver to go across from wallace which would help get the ball downfield and also help in the red zone.

 

You have to take into account that their ratings are a cumulative number. James played 1069 snaps at OT and had a -25.9 rating. Thomas play 333 snaps at OT and has a -20.2. So, if Thomas played close to the same number of OT snaps one could reasonably conclude IMO that Thomas would have posted a much worse rating.
When you combine Thomas' G and OT snaps it is 695 and his combined rating between those positions is a -32.7.
James' 3 worst games were at LT, as were 5 of 6 worst games. So, one could also conclude if he'd of been left at RT all season, his rating would have been much better.

 

Do you believe in "intangibles?" And if so how do you think they would manifest themselves in terms of the teams performance? If "intangibles" actually do exist and with everything else being equal surely the team with the QB with the "intangibles" would have some sort of advantage over the team with the QB without the intangibles?

Maybe Wilson's defense plays hard for Wilson because of his intangibles, but they wouldn't play as hard for, say, Tavaris Jackson, is that even a possibility?

 

Good point. And just another reason PFF stats are an abomination.

 

not really, you have to understand them. There are some things they could do differently or better like separate offensive lineman snaps by position but their stats on the surface are pretty good. I dont take them as a gospel because theyre still being judged by a human but at face value the stats are fine. The problem comes in when people try and manipulate them or take them as gospel

 

James had played LT in high school so it wasn't completely foreign to him. I think Tennessee did him a disservice by not moving him to LT at the start of his junior year. His college tape only showed him at RT, so it would be hard to know exactly what he could have done at LT, but had he gotten the chance there it could have enhanced his draft value. I also would not judge his NFL potential as a LT on just his rookie season. Greg Robinson and Jake Matthews both had their struggles as rookie LTs too, and they both had college experience at that position. By the end of their 2nd seasons, neither Luke Joeckel or Eric Fisher have really lived up to their draft statuses either.

 

They run it way more than 2 times a game. Way more. I would say that most Dolphin run plays are some sort of read option. You also seem to be suggesting that Tannehill's strengths lie with the run game? If so, I would disagree. I remember how much you loved Ronnie in the wildcat. That ain't this.

 

Once again, I think the original poster is lamenting the state of the league, and the degree to which team success is related to great quarterback play, as much as or more than he is Tannehill.

 

From what I recall James was usually left on an island in pass pro at both positions. IMO, the main reason James struggled at LT is because it is a tougher position compared to RT, and most rookies struggle when they play LT. More so than they do overall at RT.

 

That could be said about any team. Seattle had the #1 defense in the league in points and passing yards surrendered, and the #3 defense in rushing yards surrendered (#2 in yards per carry surrendered). That's about like saying "the Dolphins would've been somewhere between 14-2 and 16-0 if it would've had the Pro Bowl roster."

 

IMO, at this early juncture, the most likely starting OL next season could already all be on the roster. We are set at both OTs and C, assuming Pouncey moves back there, and it would not be a huge surprise if the guards were Billy Turner and Shelly Smith. Hickey could try to upgrade the guard spot with a middle tier veteran free agent though too. The big DeVante Parker type of WR would be nice, but even if we don't find one, if the defense can be improved enough, the current WR corps, such as it is, could be sufficient.

 

What reason did I give that proves they're an abomination? That the ratings are cumulative? One does not prove the other. The reader just needs to take the accumulation aspect into account.

 

one of the reasons I was against taking James in round one is because I felt he was only a right tackle. His slide and his pass pro aren't good enough and his feet not quick enough to cover your franchise qbs blind side. That said I do think he's a fine RT and will be a ten year fixture there and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

that was said in terms of why tannehill is home and wilson is in the playoffs. wilson has the benefit of a dominate defense that shuts down teams where as tannehill had games that were lost on the defense inability to stop anything.

 

Right, but you could take any team that has an average or better QB, give it Seattle's defense, and it would likely be in the playoffs.

 

yeah and if tannehill goes to seattle and wilson comes here to miami nothing really changes. tannehill and wilson are good quarterbacks. one is surrounded by a great defense and one is surrounded by a mediocre one. my point in all this is teams win games not one player. tannehill isnt in the playoffs not because he is a crap qb who will never amount to anything and wilson isnt in the playoffs because he is superman who can do everything and is leap and bounds ahead of tannehill. the seahawks are vastly superior to the dolphins in terms of talent surrounding their qb's and this doesnt even get into coaching.

 

It's likely that Seattle would be in the playoffs with Wilson even if it had only an average defense, such as the Dolphins' defense, for example. Last year the Seahawks achieved one of the most lopsided Super Bowl wins in history precisely because it has a great quarterback AND a great defense. The Dolphins on the other hand are mediocre across the board.

 

i agree with some you said dj, i like wilson a lot i was really big on him in college and in the draft. to me tannehill isn't average i think right now he is a good qb and wilson is better no doubt but both are going to continue to grow, we will just have to agree to disagree on tannehill.

 

He is cause you saw it in your mind.

Problem is that your mind can convince you you it saw something based on your bias. Oh and this is a biased opinion.

Can't believe this thread is still going on as if anyone is trying to convince others there opinion is fact. Good luck you'll need it as you will be here awhile.

 

"Lower your shoulder"? In the last, meaningless game of the year?

24 points is enough to win most games in the nfl. The Pats only scored 17 the week before against the Jets at home. Tannehill did enough to win. He's fine.

 

Deej, you are judging Tannehill by an arbitrary trait and you're judging it by an arbitrary set of benchmarks.

Again, you are acting as if all pass rush is the same. You see Wilson run away from a single rusher and Tannehill get sacked on a jailbreak and count them as the same situation and they are not.

Then on top of it all, you're treating that one arbitrary trait as the single most important thing the QB can do, when at best, its just one tool that can be at a QB's disposal.

Lastly, seeing it "live", makes your take even less reliable.