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Why do we love Mediocrity

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    How do we win the ultimate goal - the super-bowl when the culture to win it is not here? When the goal for this team is set at just making the playoffs, that is failure. Why would anyone set themselves up to fail.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're basically slapping random words together hoping against hope they make a cogent thought.

    We are fans, regardless of what you think our hopes are or aren't, they have little to no bearing on the actual team. Every team plans on the SB.

    You don't believe in processes. To you, things either are or they're not. Which is great for you, but its also a lot like saying since my car won't start, I'll throw it out.

    Also, making it to the playoffs this year for the AFC does not equal mediocre.
     
  3. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I am not sure what is not to understand.

    If a coach or owner sets the bar at making the playoffs (which Ross did), That person has set the team up for failure. 99.99% of the time a team that has set its goal low will only achieve that goal and no more.

    This team will not over achieve and magically win the super-bowl.

    Most on this board are ok with getting to the playoffs, YOU HAVE BEEN SOLD MEDIOCRITY and didn't even know it

    There is no Trophy for second place. Only one team is successful per year and wins the super-bowl. Some are better then others at their attempts to achieve success. Those teams always have the "super-bowl" as their goal.
     
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  4. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    You are misunderstanding things.

    Ross set the bar at "seeing improvement" for "evaluation" purposes, as an expectation.
    The team set the bar at SB, as the goal, the team, from Ross all the way down. They said it clearly in interviews in the offseason, Hickey, Lazor, Philbin, Ross, everyone.
     
  5. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    You assume things about me based on a few posts you have read. You assume to much.

    Stephen Ross set the bar at the Playoff's. That is failure and is the point.

    You say every team sets the goal at the super-bowl --- well this one didn't and hasn't for a long time. Until the winning culture is brought back we will continue to under achieve.

    To say I don't believe in processes is ignorant. Everything is a process. It is what are you willing to do to achieve a specific set goal. If that goal is set low, the team if it can achieve the goal will only strive for that level - no more

    The goal of this team is only to make the playoffs, which we now have a 15.5% chance of doing.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That is not the bar he set. First of all, you have no real proof of that.
    Secondly, the "proof" you may have is about the benchmark at which Philbin should be fired. (And again, I don't think there's any hard evidence that's been said.)
    Lastly, the end result of your "logic" is that 30 coaches should be fired every year.
     
  7. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree...by the way 2 socks...you post much differently on here than you do on the phinsiders if you are one in the same lol
     
  8. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just wondering Fin D, what do you need to see over the next 3 games to decide on keeping him or not? Have you made up your mind up already? For me, I really can't decide. I probably leaning more one way than the other, but haven't decided. Good points on both sides. How much of last weeks loss took a toll on you? I noticed you did not post much this week, maybe to avoid the gloom and negative posts.
     
  9. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    You tell us what your plan would be? Simply stating "we want to win the sb" isn't a plan. There must be 20 mediocre teams out there by your logic if not winning the superbowl recently is the standard.
     
  10. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I did not say Philbin should be fired. I said Philbin does not IMO possess what it takes to get us where we all want to go. If that = for you he should be fired, ok. If you compare the culture and the expectation level between the Phins and teams such as New England or Denver it is quickly apparent we are light years from that level of expectation. I do not get to make the decision to fire Philbin only Ross does. I question a "Boss" who sets the bar at the playoffs when the real goal is to win the Super-bowl. We have NOT improved in 3 years, all we have done is juggle people around. How do you guys accept 21-22 as OK or a bench mark for improvement. Improvement over what?
     
  11. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    LOL

    I know all the guys on here are good guys and we all want the same thing. Some are a little out there, but are entitled to their opinion. It's years of being here and reading, and trying to hopefully post respectfully
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If somethings I've heard are true, I want him fired.

    If not, and we win out, then i want him retained.
     
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  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Jesus, prove right now that Ross set the bar for success of the team at Playoffs. I'll wait.....
     
  14. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    IS 3 games going to make your decision? The team is no further along. Philbin is 21-22. All we have done is shift guys around. A few coaches and a few players and we call it progress?

    Is this really Philbin's answer to getting to the super-bowl??
     
  15. Fin4Ever

    Fin4Ever Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, I enjoy reading your post and they always seem respectful to me.
     
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  16. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    My bad Ross set the bar even lower then the playoffs.

    DAVIE, Fla. -- For an owner who has endured four consecutive losing seasons, Miami Dolphins boss Stephen Ross sounded remarkably patient Wednesday. He resisted any temptation to say he expected a double-digit win total or playoff berth this year, even after committing about $150 million to free-agent acquisitions over the offseason.

    "You want to bring back the winning tradition. You want to see progress," Ross said. "We certainly want to make the playoffs, but I want to see growth in the team in building the foundation for this season and future seasons. I don't want to be a one-shot wonder."

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...s-sounds-note-of-patience-with-miami-dolphins

    so we don't even have to make the playoffs ....just show progress, what ever that might be:up:
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You honestly have no idea what it means to set expectations if you think that's what that was.
     
  18. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Scotty I have read a lot of your posts and I respect your input. Your statement that there are 20 mediocre teams out there is spot on. There are some less then mediocre.

    There are typically two types of people. Leaders and followers. A leader states the obvious and then surrounds himself with men more capable then him to accomplish what ever goal has been set.

    Do you honestly feel that Stephen Ross who is "Happy with just seeing progress" has surrounded himself with men more capable then others at accomplishing winning the super-bowl.

    Jeez Joe Philbin was like our 3 or 4th choice and we couldn't get a quality GM to come here to save our lives ---we also settled there. We have done zero to put this team in a better position then 3 years ago ----AGAIN. There is not a winning culture here. If there is please show it to me because I lost where it is and I am having trouble finding it.

    Other then being able to say Ireland is gone .....what have we accomplished? we are once again 21-22 with a 15.5% chance of making the playoffs. We still can't throw a deep ball to save our lives and our Defense is now suddenly giving up 30 points a game. We have shown that this is a very talented team against several very good teams. Denver, New England , San Diego to name a few. Yet for many reasons we are unable to get over the hump.
     
  19. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I will decide how I feel at the end of the season. I have felt differently at different times this season. A part of me thinks that Philbin is in over his head. Another part would hate to start over again. Could mean different players for different schemes....honestly torn. Not afraid of change. I hate to think we keep Philbin for another year, just to dump him at the end of next season. These last 3 games mean a lot to me. Want to see if it means a lot to the coaches and the players.
     
  20. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Fin D

    This is the leader of this team. The Head Honcho. Stephen Ross and he told the whole world he didn't want to be a one hit wonder. Really, you wouldn't take a fluke season and win the super-bowl.....**** I would.

    What message did this send to the entire team and staff? Mediocrity is ok and all I really expect. That is the exact message he sent.

    Do you honestly think the players on this team are going to push themselves. Hell no they are going to do what men do. Play and hope to not get injured. Most, with a few exceptions, are only going to perform to the expectation level set.

    Do you think it is a coincidence that Cameron Wake has become invisible as of late?? Now there is a loaded question.
     
  21. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not trying to be a jerk, but what if the things you heard are true and he wins out a make the playoffs?
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Then fired. WADR, that was fairly obvious by my post.
     
  23. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I am the same way. Torn. There has been improvements in some areas, regression in others and others completely ignored. Philbin has had three years. I am leaning on the side that we could give him 5 more and we probably would still be in the same boat. I just don't see over all how Philbin has been beneficial. I question some of the players who they got rid off and where we would be if they were still here. Especially Vonte Davis.
     
  24. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I have no problem with failure. Because when you fail, it teaches you what not to do the next time.

    Mediocrity on on the other hand teaches you nothing but to accept being average. It always surprises me when some fans will try and justify the fact that this team has been consistently mediocre for so many years.
     
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  25. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Uhh weren't you one of the guys who defended and thought we should have kept Jeff Millen Ireland?
     
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  26. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    They all were. I had like 50 posters on ignore 2 years ago, for real, calling me a troll for not supporting Ireland.

    I did not realize how entrenched Jeffy was. Firing that guy was like getting rid of Stalin or something.
     
  27. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I would start by deciding if Tannehill is the guy or not. If he is not I would trade him and build both offensive and defensive lines. Moore would be the man for now. Once I had the lines established it is receivers and Qb. My line though for the record would kick you in the teeth.....every time, every play. Then I would hire the best offensive and defensive line coaches in the NFL. It is no mistake that if you look at the best teams in the NFL they have several things in common, and they all have great offensive and sometimes defensive lines. Most have one or the other. But the ones that have both usually go far into the playoffs
     
  28. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    The whole mediocrity thing has turned into something I really didn't think it would. I was trying to demonstrate that men need leaders and leaders set the tone for the way things are going to be. If I was a player and heard my owner tell the media he didn't want to be a one hit wonder and all he wanted to be able to do is see some progress at the end of the year I would not be inspired to play hard that's for sure.

    The hole point was it is very hard to get to the super-bowl. Most teams are just that - one hit wonders and then it takes years to get back. Some never do. For an owner to openly say he doesn't want to be that one hit wonder tells me everything I need to know.

    This is the guy who hired Philbin and this is the guy who will decide the fate of this franchise for a while. Kind of scary when you think about it
     
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  29. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I know you can't seriously be asking me if I was an Ireland defender. I took heat on this forum for nearly three years because I wanted Ireland replaced after the 2011 season.

    In fact I refused to purchase season tickets in 2012 because Ross kept Ireland as the GM. You obviously have me confused with someone else if you actually think I was ever a supporter of Ireland. To me he was one on the worst GM's in the history of the NFL.
     
  30. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting thought. I agree with you on that. I think that Ross is a business man first. To him, it's about showing growth each year and that's totally understandable in his line of work.

    If anything, Philbin and Ross are much the same, wouldn't you agree? They are very unemotional types who are going to look at the stats and the facts in order to draw conclusions.

    You do need risk and you do need emotion and you do need momentum to get to the Super Bowl and win it. No question about it.

    Then again, coaches like Mike McCarthy are great examples of how success doesn't always come from a Bill Cowher type of personality That just shows you how important it is to have a great QB and a defense that can step up when it's time.

    That's why, for me, it's 100% about Ryan Tannehill at this point. I'm going to defend only what I think is best for him.

    The moment I see good a good argument for how replacing Philbin and Lazor will result in Tannehill getting better, I'll hop on that side of the debate.

    Until then, I can only conclude that this back and forth about Philbin is largely moot.
     
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  31. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I wasn't asking you, my reply was directed to the OP...which is why this thread being made by him is a bit funny.
     
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  32. DPlus47

    DPlus47 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Ross is a mediocre owner, and I think Philbin is a mediocre coach. I don't quite get who "we" is in the thread title, because if I'm a fan of the team and I "love" the team, it doesn't mean I love the mediocre state of things right now. I think everybody wants it to change, and we don't really feel empowered to bring about the change. How do we go about getting a new coach, let alone a new owner? We just have to wait or find a new passion.

    [EDIT: I'm not saying everybody wants a new coach and or owner. Everybody wants to win.]

    If you just look at football and fandom as a black/white "did your team win the Super Bowl or not?" then football itself is a pretty mediocre pastime. Talk about a low chance for payoff, anyway. As others have said, it's the frienships, the family bonding, the feelings of being part of a group, the memories, etc. that make it more than it is. Without these things, being a sports fan is one of the more shallow activities people can get involved in.
     
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  33. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In my experience dealing with a lot of 70s and 80s Dolphins fans, they seem to appreciate the team mostly because when they started following the team it was dominant or had strong advantages like Shula and Marino. They remind me a lot of Patriots fans of this generation who are growing up with a powerful team and who expect to see a Play-off run every single year.

    Now that the team has bottomed out and is attempting to rise from the ashes, its those same veteran fans that are the most cynical and the most intolerant. If I was used to winning every year, I guess I'd be angry, too.

    Me personally, I've never gotten to see the Dolphins get beyond the 1st round of the Play-offs, so I'm naturally just as interested in understanding why things do and don't work.

    I've grown up with a younger generation of fans who appreciate their own teams but who get to see all the others each week so we tend to appreciate great performances regardless of the team and are less "patriotic" regarding our own.

    I think the younger generation of fans who've grown up with Sunday Ticket and 24-7 ESPN coverage are very different.
     
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  34. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nice Post. The 70's and 80's were special. Where I received this passion I have felt for this team. I probably have some of that cynical and intolerant trait you speak of, being a veteran Dolphin fan. Comes with watching over 40+ yrs. Hope you don't mind if I ask you how old you are and how you became a Dolphin fan?
     
  35. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Haha...hey, it sounds like you've earned your cynicism my friend! ;)

    I'm 30 and inherited my fandom from my mom, actually. South Florida family and everyone on her side were big into the Dolphins. They watched the perfect season and the offenses of the 80s.

    I pretty much started around the late 90s when Marino was on his way out.

    It's been all downhill for you it sounds like and it'll be just the opposite for me...hopefully.

    I think Tannehill is the closest thing I've seen to legitimacy in a Miami offense since I've been a fan, so my support of anyone will always tie back to the that. I'm pretty much on board with anything I think can make Tannehill a long-term success. I think that's ultimately the future of the team right there...one way or the other.
     
  36. LI phinfan

    LI phinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I am totally with you on Tannehill. I know he is far from perfect, but some of the best QB play we have seen in a long while...and he seems like a good kid. Easy to root for on sundays. You grew up a tough time to be a fan. Lamar Smith's TD in the Playoffs might be your best memory! My son, who is 16, has followed me in being a huge Dolphin fan. I can only hope the next 10 yrs of his fandom are better than previous 10. Do you still live in Florida?
     
  37. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    well I for one like the O.P and he has valid points Joe Philbin I not a good coach I mean look at what Dave Wannstedt did he won more big games in one year then Philbin has n three years . what many people don't understand is we are getting older and some of us would love to see the dolphins win and become a great franchise instead of losing to bad teams and winning 7-9 8-8 and 9-7 those stats don't mean squat if we are constantly missing the playoffs .

    the Lions usually choke but they have talent , so does the Cardinals and Browns and we have some talent but we have players with character issues and we are a poorly coached team we have been lucky more then good .

    here is what frustrates me ,

    we had enough talent to make it to the super bowl back in 2002 and 2003 but we had no quarterback then instead of simply getting a qb we let our offensive players go and we replaced them with subpar guys WELKER for Bess are you kidding me all we had to do was get a freaking qb and Welker , Chambers and Ricky and if you add Donald Lee and Randy McMichael those guys were good enough to get us there. but the drawback to Wanny's system was he traded draft picks for aging veterans . Our defensive players all got old at the same time Madison , Surtain Taylor , Zach , and Marion left and instead of filling our holes we created more holes especially when Sparano and Philbin came on board.

    the bottom line to me is that I am a mere mortal and wont live forever. so I am tired of the dolphins just dicking around while Baltimore , Pittsburgh and Seattle are building a good solid base for getting to the super bowl . so if we could just find us a great coach that can draft and keep the better players then we could become relevant .
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    some folks need to stop babying this qb, I now he's got a subpar oline but lets go dude...when he starts to use his arm and legs properly, then he will have my confidence, at this point he has 0 situational awareness, and a very poor mental clock, and it all leads into being the worst team in football in big play outcome and I would guess, the most sacked qb for the past two years.

    when that is the case, you must manufacture your own.
     
  39. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Surely every team wants to hire the best coaches? Why keep Moore over Tannehill? If he's not good enough for us who is gonna trade for him? Surely while building these all pro lines the rest of the team is gonna suffer? Who is gonna play at LB or CB while our lines are being built? 4 years down the line when they get their first contracts for real how do we pay these 9 megastars? Regardless of your opinion Hickey probably did a good job this off season. We got a good LT, RB, CB and Safety. He brought in OL depth. We've been hit by injuries. The players signed had some injury question marks, that is true but they were still a worthwhile aquisition. I would love to be the gm who fulfills the pick and mix fantasy team. You've created a magical wishlist which doesn't really stack up. It's not too disimilar to just pointing at players and saying want. I'd like the team to be Rodgers, bell, Graham, Beckham Jr, Johnson and Nelson. It's not gonna happen though because there are 31 other teams all demanding the same and secondly it'd kill us cap wise.Without wishing to turn it into one of those threads in my opinion the best thing we could do this off season is dump Moore and find a rookie to sit behind tannehill. The idea that Matt Moore is some squandered talent is plainly ridiculous. If hoyer stays in Cleveland the exact same conversations will be happening there if manziel has ropey games next year.
     
  40. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Well-Known Member

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    Posting from my phone gets rid of all formatting. Sorry for the text block.
     

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