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So are you ok with extending Philbin and co?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dorfdad, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ...and I thought you were better than that to use a "Cmon man, you're better than that" statement in attempt to discredit my post.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Well, TBF, the Colts, are only a game ahead of us record wise. Its not like Pagano has his team all that better off than ours right now, and that's with the consensus best young QB ever and a considerably worse division.

    Its very likely, we'd have a better record if we weren't learning a whole new offense. Yes, I understand the need for a new offense is because Philbin made a mistake and went with Sherman, but I'm not holding Sherman against Philbin just as I'm not holding Olividatti against Shula.

    Also, there was a strong show of support for Philbin by the team when his dad died.

    I think there's a narrative (not saying its by you) that has been generated about Philbin that people are buying hook line and sinker and it just may not be the actual truth.
     
  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    If anything, we've seen a pattern of players publicly undercutting and outright disrespecting Joe Philbin. Jon Martin being the primary example. He essentially turned his back and sabotaged the team. You don't do that to a coach you care about. You're seeing some of that again this season, with players calling out coaches through the media. Thats not something you do to a coach you respect.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    One of my biggest pet peeves.
     
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  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    wow..that was an opinion three years in the making eh?

    would like to hear Fins response..

    I hear ya, and a lot of what you said makes some sense, but if we win the four were supposed to to finish, are you leaving any room that there might be some philosophies that are working?
     
  6. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would, as I said if Miami makes the playoffs I would begrudgingly accept Philbin and staff another year. I would not extend unless the success is replicated.

    I just think someone else is what will take this team over the top and/or if Philbin replaced Coyle with a Rex Ryan or carbon clones Vic Fangio to run the defense.

    Gotta win 4 of 5 first though.
     
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  7. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I read a recent quote from Mike Wallace lauding Joe Philbin, so take it for what it is. I mean, if Miami's pseudo-primadonna wideout can back him, I think other players might as well.

    I said this earlier in the year that he was beginning to "look and sound" more like a head coach. What that turns into on the field is ultimately what matters. I think he is doing 'better'. I do not know if it will ultimately mean anything with regard to winning consistently, but the team has changed. I firmly believe they are so close, but what will it take to make them dominant, consistently dominant?

    They now are competing with the big dogs. What do they have to do to beat them? Can Joe Philbin and staff push them all the way to the top? I guess we will find out later this year. I will be very pleased with a playoff appearance and one win. I think this team has what it takes to do it.
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    so his contract is up after this year, we haven't extended him, and if we make the playoffs you wanna put him on a one year deal?
     
  9. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    I had never heard of any "mandate" before seeing it in this thread from the "insider." So if it turns out to not be true then why wouldn't I assume it was made up?
     
  10. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    Yes and if Tannehill doesn't throw that pick in the final 4 minutes our defense likely does hold them to below average...
     
  11. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought he was hired on a 4-year deal back in 2012. If that's true, then next year would be his last year under contract, so yes. If not, then I'd just as soon let him walk barring a deep playoff run.
     
  12. keithjackson

    keithjackson Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd love a better coach. Who wouldn't?

    But who exactly are people suggesting? Aside from the off chance we land Harbaugh or Malzahn, I haven't heard anybody suggest a coach that would be an improvement.

    Offensive Coordinators?
    Adam Gase, Den
    Ben McAdoo, NYG
    Josh McDaniels, NE
    Pete Carmichael, NO
    Bill Lazor, MIA

    Defensive Coordinators?
    Todd Bowles, Ari
    Teryl Austin, Det
    Dan Quinn, Sea

    NCAA Head coaches?
    Kevin Sumlin, TA&M

    I'd guess Ross would want to go offensive minded, or maybe Sumlin would be a big enough name.

    Are any of these a sure-fire improvement over Philbin?
     
  13. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I think the current regime goes as far as Tannehill takes them. Last year he sh1t the bed down the stretch. Right now, he's playing his best football. If he can get his passer rating closer to 100 the rest should take care of it self
     
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  14. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, but a roll of the dice is still appropriate.

    Our current head coach should have been weeded out by a sound interview process.
     
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  15. Was the 3 turn overs and the 15min T.O.P. differental also the defenses fault? Before you go off the deep end my point is that the offense shares the blame for the loss.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What game are you talking about? We turned the ball over once and there was an under 10 minute time differential.
     
  17. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Under Philbin the past 2 seasons in the final 5 games:

    2012: 2-3 - Losses to NE, SF, and NE. Wins against Jax and Buff.
    2013: 3-2 - Wins against NYJ, Pit, and NE. Losses against Buff and NYJ.
    2014: ???

    We need him and the team to improve on that this season by 1 game to have 4 wins.

    That record doesn't instill confidence in him. Personally, my only interest is in retaining Bill Lazor, John Benton, and Mark Duffner... If we miss hitting 10 wins and the playoffs I think you look hard at a guy like Dan Quinn and talk to candidates about retaining Lazor as the key to the whole damn thing is the continued progress of Tannehill in this sort of system.
     
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  18. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Ben McAdoo Josh McDaniels and Pete Carmichael should not even be considered... in a million years..
     
  19. my bad I was talking about the GB game.
     
  20. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Bunch of you who were on "Fire Sherman" bandwagon, you don't get to complain about the record. You axd for a new OC, you got it!
    We lost two games because whatever he had in the offseason with depth of routes and QB drops did not work, so we got blown out in two games against the Bills and the Chiefs.
    Also, he failed to milk the clock to end the Green Bay game with the lead by using running game. Instead he put it in QBs hands and lost the clock.
    Also, he did not score squat in Detroit.

    You get to take the record and enjoy it, cause you asked for it!
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You do realize we're scoring considerably more points a game now then we were with Sherman, right?
     
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  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    How? I stated it was the Denver Broncos game twice in a 4 sentence post.
     
  23. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Didnt mean any disrespect, you know that I know that you know your stuff. But in this case you're out in center left field.

    The 4th quarter stuff is ridiculous. We have won and lost many close games. Atlanta, Cincy, Indy, Pittsburgh & San Diego were down to the wire wins. Buffalo, Baltimore, Carolina & Tampa were close losses. That's the NFL, it's not an indictment of anyone.

    This season we've lost a few close games vs some very good teams. But rather than give credit to those teams, and QBs like Rodgers and Manning, you're pointing the finger at the HC.
     
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  24. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    We are scoring more with a more experienced QB, better/deeper WR corps, OTs who can block DEs 1 on 1 and OGs who can make blocks on the 2nd level. The offense is better accross the board, its not the individual performance of one guy or the genius of a new OC. If we were putting up more points with last years players the Lazor lovers might have a valid point.
     
  25. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    2011 21.5
    2012 24.4
    2013 26.9

    miami
    2012 18.0
    2013 19.8
    2014 25.9

    Colts
    2012 22.3
    2013 24.1
    2014 30.3

    I would say the QB being in his third year, a better GM and Lazor all deserve some of the credit. It is interesting that Cincy is down to 22.4 in 2014 after having just replaced their coordinator. Its hard to say how our points per game would have looked with Sherman still here but I'm glad we got Lazor. I don't think Sherman was near the villain he's being made out to be but I believe that position is better suited for young, fresh minds. I'm sure Sherman was brilliant in his own right but I doubt he had the mental stamina required for the position.
     
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  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You're standing next to first base looking at a butterfly while there's a grounder coming your way.

    Atlanta & Indy were the 2nd & 3rd games of last year. What happened in a 7 game stretch shortly after that? Philbin went 2-5, with one of those wins coming from a Wake sack in overtime against Cincy after the team blew a 17-6 4th qtr lead. The 5 losses included a 4th quarter loss to Baltimore, 4th quarter losses to Buffalo, Tampa, and Carolina that Miami had 4th quarter leads in, and a 2nd half loss to New England after blowing them out in the 1st half. Philbin doesn't get credit for the Cincy game; he gets criticism for nearly giving it away. Excluding the 20-16 San Diego win, Philbin blew 6 of those 7 games. Then 4 weeks later he pulls out back-to-back stinkers against NY & Buffalo to cost us a playoff birth. 2014 arrives and he's 0-4 in close 4th qtr games. He might've won a few close ones, but he's lost significantly more than he's won. Over the past 24 games, he's 4-11 in close or critical games [critical being the last 2 against NY & Buffalo], with one of those wins being Wake's. I gave Joe credit for the Pitt game even though it saw a collapse on the final play that was saved by a Steelers' toe falling an inch out of bounds.

    Oh spare me. The win was ours for the taking against Green Bay, and Philbin's team gave up against Denver in the 4th quarter while we still had a 3 pt lead.

    What do think happens in the post season? Do you think we get to play sub .500 teams like Oakland & Chicago? If we earn a wildcard spot, we'd have to win 4 straight games against these good teams you speak of and want to give so much credit to. We could see Kansas City at KC in the Wildcard game, Indy on the road in the Divisional round, Denver on their home turf in the AFC Champ game, and then Aaron Rodgers in the Super Bowl. Guess what, other wildcard teams with no better team talent ours and with no better QB play than ours have been able to string together 4 straight wins against these types of good teams, yet here you are engaging in a bunch of excuse-making for Philbin losing winnable games to them.

    If you think we shouldn't be able to duplicate what other Wildcard teams have accomplished by winning 4 straight close games against these playoff level teams, let alone one against KC, then that's a testament to just how mediocre Philbin is. There's no excuse for this talented team being 6-5, nor losing every close game it's played this year, including the catastrophic 4th quarter collapse against KC. A good HC wins at least ONE of these damn games, and there's nothing you can say to sugarcoat it. When you go 0-4 in close 4th quarter games, three of which you had a 4th quarter lead in, you're not doing your job as a head coach.
     
  27. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Ok. We were minus both our starting OTs, down to our 7th CB vs an all time great passing team, couldn't or chose not to defend the run, and that's on Philbin? Did JP instuct Coyle to stay in base D while Denver used an extra OL and TE to gash us for 200+ yards on the ground?

    It's funny because most people had us as mediocre, missing the playoffs, a bottom 1/3 team that was destined for 8-8. Now we're the juggernaut team that only loses bc of inferior coaching, and it's not Coyle or Lazor, they're only responsible for wins, when we lose it's all Philbin.

    Not. Buying. It.
     
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  28. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Not speaking for todd phins but for me the bar was raised when the qb play improved .Tannehills play should have us better than 6-5.Yet here we stand.
    I cant help but go back to that greenbay game with 4min left both greenbay starting corners on bench and we run the ball 3 times into a stacked box and give the ball back to rodgers.Press conference philbin was asked why he was conservative and he said he felt queasy from what happended in buffalo the year before.Coaching not lose cost game and probally a wildcard spot.
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    this is very true and he's gonna have to face it if we don't win 4 out of 5..he also called a timeout on 4th down while we were on defense right after a sack and forced fumble and every fan standing in the stadium.
     
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  30. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Your right I forgot about that.
    You know its easy to coach when its 37-0 but when its a close game he sure seems to panic and make dumb decisions.I know belicheck would not have run 3 times into a stacked box pnly to give the ball back to the best qb on the league.Thats just plain stupid.
     
  31. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    The details sir, the details. We didn't run the ball three straight times, there was a pass on 2nd & 9. RT was immediately under pressure and lucky to avoid a sack before throwing the ball away, 40 more seconds for Rodgers. RT was sacked on the previous set of downs but there was an illegal hands penalty that gave us a first. The Packers were in all out blitz mode that whole drive and we were not picking them up, if Philbin was queasy he had reason to be.

    So on 3rd and 9 they went safe. A run guarantees there's no big loss, turnover or clock stoppage, if we get lucky and find a gap its a game ending first and probably a TD. Otoh we could pass, risking all of the above on the slim chance that we convert. Philbin made the call, to call that a mistake assumes we'd have gotten a better result and there's simply no way to know if that's true. What we do know is that Fields netted just 23 yards on his punt, giving GB the ball at the 40. An avg punt in that spot pins GB inside their own 20. Playing the result is easy but based on the info available at the time I dont see any rational reason for calling his decision a bad one. He's made plenty of questionable calls I just don't see that as one of them.
     
  32. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why DJ, why? This one still burns.
     
  33. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Its a tactic they've used before. Against the Pats in week 15 last year, before both 3rd and 4th down in the red zone on Brady's final drive. But no one remembers that because NE failed to convert.

    WADR give these coaches their due. Contrary to popular belief, coaching from the couch or on Monday morning is a lot easier than doing it from the sideline on game day.
     
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  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Stings the nostrils..

    if he has a good reason why he did I'd like to know..I believe anything outside of us being incredibly out of position, the circumstances screamed for us to do everything possible to NOT call a timeout in that situation.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    oh quit acting like coaches don't make mistakes and that were to stupid to rarely call them out on it, don't lump me into your common generalizations.

    Gms make mis evaluations all the freakin time and they run the damn team..lol.

    First off Instead of being lazy and lumping everyone into your groups, know the posters stance on things before you respond..

    2nd, I've written in this forum that I'm not inside the building enough to make an accurate decision on whether this coach should be retained or fired at this very point in the season, but I do feel that winning 4 out of five, and all our home games, especially the Ravens, is a fair set of obstacles relative to third year progression levels, and taking as much info as possible into account, I think they are musts if we are to continue on with this coach.

    3rd, when your a head coach, I think it's good acumen to take into account what is the apex level of your home crowd, the intangibles of what energy and noise and home crowd impact means in the moment, also, take into account the momentum of the previous play, the situation, when you add it all up and your philosophy is to ignore those circumstances and variables, then I disagree with that decision..

    Don't be an *** kisser in the face of legitimate controversy, it kinda makes your other opinions feel a bit slanted and robotic.
     
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  36. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Agreed. These coaches haven't earned anything as of yet. This isn't Bill Belichick and his staff we're questioning here. Philbin has no such pedigree.
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you going to preach to us about details then try to remember the circumstances both situations presented to our team....they were completely different situations that call for different reactions...assuming that the coach should call the same thing in two completely different situations shows that is a problem in itself and frankly debunks your whole stance on the matter
     
  38. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Im not preaching, I'm reminding those who may not remember the specifics. I remember bc I watch each game several times but I realize not everyone does that so I made a correction.

    I never said the coach should call the same thing, I said they have done it before and most don't remember bc it didn't fail or in part lead to a loss. Nothing controversial there, my friend. I'm here to talk football, if you want to have a pissing match do it with someone else bc I'm not interested.
     
  39. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Ok that's fine didnt remember all the details but with both starting corners out that's still a ***** move from a ballless coach.Everybody knew if Rodgers got the ball back game was over.
    Have faith in ur qb and go for the win.like I said bellcheick would have.No doubt because he's a winner.
     
  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    It doesn't take a coach from his couch to understand we're 6-5, have lost EVERY CLOSE 4th QTR GAME all season, and are currently behind 4 or 5 teams for a wildcard spot whom we're arguably better than. We're the ONLY TEAM in the league ranked top 10 in pts, scoring D, point differential, passer rating, passer rating allowed, and turnover margin, yet we're on the outside looking in on a playoff spot. Those are the facts. We're not the irrational ones. The irrational fan is the one who thinks the head coach is beyond reproach and is somehow doing a praiseworthy job despite hovering around .500 for the third straight year even though he's got a team that's significantly better and more talented than the 2012 squad he took over.

    And I give Lazor plenty of his due, so stop lumping all the coaches in with Philbin.

    BTW, your "coaching from the couch" comment is ridiculous. For every losing coach, there's a winning one. Philbin is 0-4 in close 4th qtr games this year. That means there are 4 head coaches who are each 1-0 against Philbin when the clock reaches the critical time in the game and one team needs to step up and get the job done. Those 4 coaches don't need all your excuse making, talking about "how much easier it is to coach on Monday morning than doing it from the sideline on game day". It's a level playing field dude, so stop acting like it's any different for Joe than it is the guy standing on the opposite sideline. Like I said, he's 4-11 in close 4th qtr games or critical games during the past 24 outings. Joe isn't going against the Deep Blue supercomputer version of an NFL coach. He's coaching against other friggin' NFL coaches, and those coaches are 11-4 against him in close or critical games.
     
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