Tannehill to Wallace 6-37 when attempting passes 40+ yards

I agree with this and have been saying it for 2 years now. The first point also means that the throws to Wallace have to be much further which makes them inherently less likely to be completed. Passes thrown 35-40 yards past the LOS are completed a lot more frequently than those thrown 45-50 past the line. The second point shrinks the catch radius bu roughly half (making it more of a semi-circle than a circle) and also diminishes the WR's advantage over the DB in tracking the ball.

 

It should be pointed out that the 6-37 number in the thread title is way off. According to ESPN, Tannehill has attempted only 17 41+ yd passes since Wallace has been here and Wallace has caught 4 of them. That's pretty close to the 25-35% range that represents the league average for those kinds of throws. They are hard to complete. Throwing them earlier, higher and more toward the middle of the field would result in more completions but can also result in more interceptions if the QB isn't careful about when to take those shots.

 

People are way too obsessed with this stuff. I mean its gotten to the point where its dragging the site down for me.

 

Ryan Tannehill's deep ball passes seem to be the Pink Elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about. It IS a problem. Whether the homers want to discuss it or not...

 

Playing the homer card.

 

LOL...

That was pretty funny. And I see what you did there.

 

An article on the value of deep passing attempts:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...the-deep-ball/2011/11/30/gIQA4JoQDO_blog.html

 

Most people who are labeled "homers" on here in regards to Tannehill are the ones who simply do not accept the erroneous theory that Tannehill is all to blame for the deep ball problems to Wallace. The statistics do NOT support the theory that Tannehill throws a terrible deep ball, no matter how many times someone says he does.

 

Do you HONESTLY think RT throws a good deep ball?

 

I don't honestly have a huge issue with his deep ball when thrown to those not named Wallace. I've posted stats several times in different threads over the last couple days, from Football Outsiders, showing Tannehill's stats from last season on short/mid/deep/bomb throws, and compared those stats to Brees/Luck/Manning, and there is nothing that says he is really any worse than any of them at any of those throws. In fact, his bomb percentage is right in line with all of them.

 

How is it the elephant in the room when its posted and talked about non stop on the site? Just because a lot of people don't think its a huge problem on the team doesn't mean they aren't talking about. They just disagree with the nonsensical posts about it holding us back from greatness. Its gotten to the point where there is a vocal minority on here that just will not stop obsessing about every deep pass from Tannehill. I mean we just won a HUGE divisional game against a team that has owned us for the last few seasons. We get a great hard fought victory and we get multiple threads from angry fans that Ryan missed one ****ing pass to Wallace that had little to no impact on the game.

This is the nonsense that "homers", ie reasonable people don't want to waste a bunch of time talking about things that don't really matter. We are literally two last second plays away from being 8-2 with a difficult schedule, this is the best this team has been in literally a decade and maybe some fans don't want to obsess over 5 or 6 passes that really haven't amounted to anything over the course of the season. Tannehill has been amazing the last 6 or so games, I mean he hasn't been perfect but he's shown great improvement but its not enough because he missed on 4 throws to Wallace. I mean the conversation here is just getting dragged down by this silly obsession by a handful of posters that don't seem to understand that games are won by who scores the most and playoffs are made by the win loss record, not the deep ball comp%.

 

The caveat being that Burke is classifying anything beyond 15 yds as deep.

 

This is very valid and important topic. The Dolphins are paying Mike Wallace a lot of money, and his best skill is getting open deep. This is something that should be explored deeply.

 

So if Derrick Rose was perfectly healthy, is he a failure of a pick because he's not as good as Jordan? This is bordering on inane. Dan Marino was great, top 5 all time. But he's retired and if you're going to judge Tannehill by his standards you're going to be disappointed.

 

Not yet but he has youth to hopefully get better at it with a good team around him.
Do you honestly think Wallace helps out TH by running routes with inconsistent speed and precision? I have seen some improvement this year as well as much more desire. Keep it up. Contract wise I think he has one more season to prove it.
Brady looks untouchable unless he's getting a lot of pressure which doesn't seem to have happened very often over the years (thank you NYG). Not saying he is Brady at all but TH has just started to see a cleaner pocket this year. Time will tell.

 

His deep ball is much better this year and overall hes been much more accurate. 3 of tannehills deep balls to wallace have been off his hands. Would of been hard catches but hes not underthrowing him anymore and for the modt part he gave wallace the chance to make a play. Plus lazors offense is very quick pass orientated. Options, screens, slants and crossing routes maje up a majority of the offense. Occasionally a playaction is called and thats where the deep ball is called but most of those have been blown up by crappy blocking. Either way he has 17 tds and only 7 ints, we are 6-4 (2 defensive stops from being 8-2, tannehill did his job and lead us to points to take the lead in both games) and hes completeing 65% of his passes ( up 5% from last year, like i said much improved accuracy) who cares about the deep ball? If you take the ones hes missed wallace on and spread them over all the games theyve played together then youre complaining about tannehill missing about a pass a game lol

 

Yeah, I mean its barely been talked about here on this site.

 

I think he throws a decent long ball, not great not bad. He usually gets it within a foot of where it needs to be which is why I don't like wallace hugging the sideline. He should be three o five yards off the sideline to give tannehill some extra field and allow wallace to adjust without stepping out of bounds

 

End/Thread

 

I think he's been much better this year. Reports out of TC were he was hitting them much more often, and his throws have just looked better this year. The one against Jax was great, and even some misses like the one were Wallace had one foot out, Hartline drop when it hit him in the chest, and even Thurs that was out of bounds but hit Wallace in the hands.

We really don't take enough shots to see it improve this year, one a game is not going to do it when it's such a low % play. Also, with Albert out and the D lines we will face, it wouldn't be a good idea to have to many long developing plays.mThe real plays I want Ryan to improve on are the throws like he missed to Wallace for the Td Thurs.

 

[video=youtube;nZi0Vnx15AU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZi0Vnx15AU[/video]

I just searched Mike Wallace highlights and posted the first video that came up. If you watch this video, which look to be highlights spanning multiple years at Pittsburgh, please count how many passes were these "perfect" in-stride passes. And then count how many he had to adjust/change his route, slow down and get caught, reach or accelerate, etc.

As I said in another thread, some of you guys think other team's QB's are hitting these perfect, in-stride TDs passes at 85% or something. But, it looks like even in Mike's "deep pass glory days" most of the passes weren't perfect and required some adjustment. I haven't watched hours of game film (which I would assume show some misses as well) but I would guess this is pretty representative of most of his big plays with the Steelers. Using the complaints I read here, Wallace should've had 25 TDs per year with the Steelers.

I do agree that he should be used away from the sideline, as he doesn't have the best field awareness. Even still, some of those sideline passes ARE caught by some WRs in this league. I heard over and over last year that Tannehill just has to toss it, and he can't overthrow Mike. Well I have seen it multiple times this year. Is he slowing up or what's the story?

The fact of the matter is that these 45+ yard passes typically aren't perfect. I'm not using stats, just my naked eye watching football games every week. This video with the same guy we'r discussing now backs that up a little.

 

Highlights are useless one sided argument. People don't usually make a video showing drops and out of bound catches. These highlights just show what he is capable of doing. You guys might be right about Wallace, but this isn't the way to prove it. I agree he needs to run with more separation from him and the sideline. We know what he does here and I guarantee he did that in Pittsburgh too but people don't make videos of stuff like that. Anybody can just as easily make a video of all of RT's long ball completions and give the impression that he is awesome at it.

 

Sort of the point...even in a highlight video of his glory days with the QB others call a top deep thrower in the game...most of the deep passes are a little off target and he is tackled and/or makes a contested catch. Some of the guys constantly harping on this deep ball connection probably don't want to go mine through the "non-highlights" from the same time period.

 

My bad, I honestly didn't pay much attention to what you said, I just saw the highlight video and fired away. lol

 

His best deep throw came in OT against the Bengals. I think that would have hit Wallace in stride for the game winning TD but the defender tackled him, because he knew it was game over if he didn't.

 

I wouldn't say "we" wait for him to get open. That is on one guy and imo that is the biggest reason for the suckage with the deep ball (and a lot of the sacks for that matter).

 

This is why I find it funny when people say he has a small catch radius. That might be true, but he gives a huge target area, if he didn't he wouldn't be able to make all of those adjustments to the ball.

I just noticed this this recently but did anybody know that Wallace was Football Outsiders top receiver in the NFL one year? And he was top ten in 3 of his 5 years in Pittsburgh?

 

And did you notice that last year Football Outsiders had Tannehill with Deep ball stats in line with Luck/Manning/Brees, and his Bomb percentage the same?

 

just out of curiousity.....

When Wallace was in Pittsburgh...did they throw the ball deeper alot more?

You gotta remember....the deep ball only became a big issue once Wallace got here. It wasnt an issue his rookie season. Last season....go back and look how much pressure Tannehill was under. First of all...it takes a bit for a WR to get open down field...the lineman have to hold their block longer. Then the QB needs time to step into the throw. And we tried it what...once...at most..twice a game.

Any chance Pittsburgh just utilized the deep ball MORE OFTEN. Im sure if people made a highlight reel of Big Ben missing Wallace deep, they would have missed their fair share as well.

Also...QBs throw to an AREA when throwing a deep ball. The more AREA...the more likely the catch.

 

This, times a million. This is the piece of information that is missing from this discussion.

What are Tannehill's stats attempting 40+ passes to Hartline, Gibson, and Matthews? All I keep hearing is that the 40+ yard incompletions are obviously Wallace's fault because Ryan can complete 20+ yards passes to all other receivers with ease.

PhinsMiami, when you watched the games, did you happen to make any such notes?

 

Those video's don't exist, if they did, they would be called lowlights.

 

CK had those figures actually....they proved out that Tannehill really was only having issues with Wallace...when he comes back in Ill try to get him to put them up

 

So....hopefully people see our point..lol.

 

I googled the article: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...olphins-quarterback-ryan-tannehills-deep-ball

As far as I can tell, it doesn't single out 40+ yard passes amongst all receivers (or 20-40 yard passes amongst all receivers). Perhaps he has those stats in his compendium however.

Even though it doesn't exactly answer the above question, it's a really awesome and well-written article that everyone should take a look at.

 

I watch every snap every week, I don't need CK to tell me anything or Google stats. Ryan isn't an accurate deep ball passer plain and simple. I have accepted it and moved on, it seems Lazor realizes this also and rarely dials it up. People can skew facts and pretend a,l they want but it is what it is, it's an obvious weakness when you have a top 3 deep threat in the NFL and yet you can't hit him deep, sucks but what are ha gonna do?? In Lazor's case he has simply found other ways to get the ball into 11's hands.

 

in pittsburgh it seemed to me most of the deep passing to wallace came on broken plays. ben would freelance the play and throw a bomb to wallace who was usually all alone.

 

How is the debate still going after this ^ post?

This proves EXACTLY what we're saying in regards to Tannehill not being nearly as bad as he's made out to be.