Let's be fair. It doesn't say groping. It just says touching. He simply could of been grabbing their arms. We don't know.
Doesn't matter. Most guys here, would be ready to fight a guy if he kept grabbing their arm. Now imagine how upset you'd be if that guy was also coming on to you and was drunk.
In light of recent developments I think it's smart on the team's part and they acted swiftly. Unfortunate for Shelby as he was ascending. Separately I'm glad Miami was able to get Fede and Deandre Coleman playing time against Oakland.
Or it could just be dancing up on a chick at a club... It doesn't mean he was reaching up their skirts or anything...
Well I think it does matter, I agree it doesn't mean he wasn't in the wrong. But you are making him out to be rapist like and saying he was groping women. We don't know that. There is a massive difference in groping and grabbing a chicks arm.
Like I said, imagine a giant guy comes up to you on the dance floor and starts grinding on you.....problem or no?
That's how dancing at clubs work? No it's not a problem... Now, if the girl is turned off by it, b/c he's really drunk or something, she goes and tells security like she did and it gets taken care of. We can't be cutting guys over misdemeanors... this reactionary climate is getting out of hand.
FTR, I said: I'm not condemning the guy without evidence. Having said that, just because it happens in clubs doesn't make it right. I believe the practice of touching women (or men or children) without their consent is wrong. I think its part of our culture that needs to change. The rule thumb for me is, unless you're ok having it done to you then you probably shouldn't do it to someone else. So, unless you're perfectly ok if a random guy just comes up behind you and starts grinding his junk on your butt or grabbing your arm when you try to leave while hitting on you, then you probably shouldn't do those things to a woman without her consent.
Women get drunk and get to groping and touching in the club too. It's kinda how I met my wife...but I digress. Most times I'll just say, "You play too much....chill." and it's left at that. Not like a dude going to a bouncer about chicks touching him is going to yield anything but laughter anyway. That's why it kinda had to be groping RE: Shelby I'm thinking....because bouncers aren't even checking for hand grabs. I think an altercation between Shelby and the girl had to pop off first because she didn't appreciate it and got loud. Shelby....being drunk...probably didn't appreciate her OR the bounces and then his decision making went downhill from there. Likely where he got tuned up by bouncers outside and eventually tazed by LEOs.
So... do you think proper etiquette at the club should be that a man walk up to a women and ask "may I have this dance?"
Yes. What's so crazy about that? Again wouldn't you want some guy to ask you permission before he just started grinding his junk on you? Hell it can even be a head nod and the woman accepts. Regardless, a person should have the right to be choose to not be touched without having to be touched first.
I agree regarding the climate getting out of hand. However, in said climate, i don't have a problem with the Phins suspending the guy for now to figure out what's what. Now if they cut him right away, that's different, although i wouldn't be shocked either.
Well, the team acted quickly as they should with the indefinate suspension. He will not be cut for this, just cant see it going that far unless there is a mysterious video that surfaces showing something shocking! The league and teams right now are hyper sensitive to any kind of arrest at the moment and with the added dimension of "touching" women without permission makes it that much worse. Still don't see much more than a two game suspension for this. From the looks of his face someone already checked his butt anyway. Give the man his punishment and move on.
Bottom line is (leaving aside all the 'club' etiquette arguments) - even if his actions initially weren't bad, Shelby screwed up by getting the police called and then getting arrested. He could have and should have walked away. If he was too drunk to do so, then that's also on him. It's just a stupid, stupid move and he has let his team and fans down (even if things were overblown). I have little doubt that Philbin told the team (as every coach does because it is their great fear) to stay out of trouble in the bye week. Just ridiculously stupid and irritating, to be honest.
Well, we should wait until the facts come out. He may be completely innocent. If he was groping women against their will then he should be in big trouble, however.
Hard to really see a situation where Shellby didn't warranty ejection from the night club. These clubs love having NFL players in there. They spend a lot of money, and are celebrities. If anything, clubs will let players get away with more.
I think you need to consider income/financial security, as well as economic background. My guess is that MLB and NHL players are coming from much better financial situations growing up. NFL players also have a lot less money guaranteed.
Situation too where a bunch of money is getting thrown on the laps of 21 year olds. But Getting to the big leagues in baseball in 21 is rare. So they largely dont have much money until then.
But hockey and especially basketball players are just as young if not younger when they hit the big leagues.
Id say basketball gets in plenty of trouble as well. Especially considering the amount of NFL players compared to the amount of NFL players. The other thing that corresponds with NFL and NBA is how they are treated in college. College football and basketball rules all. Their like celebrities. So it fills their heads with a sense of untouchable. Then they get a bunch of money dropped in their laps, when coming from a situation with no much money, its a recipe for disaster.
Likely more basketball goals and open grass than skating rinks in inner city neighborhoods. I would say that hockey equipment is expensive too. So is football equipment. Only thing is....more money in Football as a whole so more sponsorships to buy equipment for kids in inner cities. Every major college and cathloic school pours money into their programs so kids don't have to buy the stuff. All they need is for you to run the 4.4, they'll take care of the rest.
Just for informational purposes I did a little research and the bouncers approached an off duty Ft. Lauderdale police officer who was working nearby to help make Shelby leave the premises. The officer was an Officer Lauren Collins a female officer who gave Shelby a verbal command to leave the premises and he refused to comply and blocked an entryway and challenged her saying "What are you going to do?". She called for assistance and other officers arrived and he was again given a command to leave and he refused. The physical confrontation and the tazer use happened after that.
The FO moving this swiftly signals one of two things to me: (1) after Incognitogate and the Ray Rice incident, we're going to take swift action to stay out of the spotlight, or (2) the Dolphins know more than the public about what happened. It might be a combination of the two. It's a tough position to be in as a team because what if he says "yeah I'm innocent, didn't do it coach, the cops are just lying" and then it turns out later there are 3 witnesses? On the flip side, what if you suspend a player and then it turns out it was a situation like the Randy Starks truck incident -- you've just tarnished their reputation for false allegations. You can't always flee to "due process" (see: 49ers, R. McDonald) and keep a guy on the field, but you also can't always assume the worst. I think eventually you just have to start sitting these guys down and demanding the truth. Hey Ray McDonald, you hit your wife? Let me talk to her right now. Send me a photo of her. Show me the police report. Employers who pay $10M/year for guys to be the face of the franchise are not the police. They can just ask a question, no lawyers needed -- did you do this? If you lie to me, I will release you outright and seek your signing bonus back. Tell me what happened.
With Jordan expected back after the Dolphins sixth game, Shelby better hope this matter comes to resolution very quickly. He and Jordan play the same position and someone has to be cut to make room for Jordan once he is activated to the 53 man roster. I like Shelby as a player, but Philbin has shown in the past that he is willing to get rid of talented players merely because of their behavior.
There were charges filed, that's why he had to bond out of jail? Unless I just misunderstood your post?
It's Broward, they likely had no idea who he was. I've seen Cameron Wake in stores here and I was the only person stalking him taking pics.
If it was a strip club, and if they are like the ones here, the female employees can touch the customer, such as a lap dance, but the customer has to keep his hands to himself. The temptation to do so may have been too much, if he was drunk.
That's what a defensive player is supposed to do. Stand by the door and challenge you to get past him. **** philbin. He should have gotten a five thousand dollAr bonus for practicing after hours
