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Rewatched the buc game.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I guess Im reading alot of these..Tannehill had a lucky night...alot is being un noticed except for a few..

    Dont all Qbs have the exact same things happen? Just seems like a concerted effort to be the one who ..can say they have a tempered enthusiasm for Ryan Tannehill.
     
  2. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I don't buy the Hickey part either...GM speak maybe? I think those 4 will be on the 53 personally, just going by hearing about them doing good things.
     
  3. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Going back to our scrimmage..Tannehill by alot of accounts seems to really thrive in this offense.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What comment from hickey?
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Here is one of those questionable decisions I referenced. Squeezed it in to Dion Sims. Could have had the back in the flat.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I can criticize him, but if I'm going to look at the bad that could have happened I'm certainly going to look at the good that could have happened.

    My main issue is that we are projecting a trend based on one game. Even if he left plays on the field...sometimes it happens. I'm going to need to see it become a trend this season before I declare it an issue.
     
  7. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hickey didn't say anything. I just said I didn't want to hear any explanation from him or anyone else about how they thought they could get one of these guys on the practice squad. If I am any scout worth his title I have identified all of these guys as pickups.
     
  8. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Oh my bad...I took it to mean he made that comment.
     
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  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's no question about that, I think the evaluation is just very intense at this point, is about whether he's the guy that can lead a dynasty..it gets more intense than just can we win games or make playoffs, it's all about is he is the man..and I don't see anything wrong with looking into everything.
     
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  10. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Well Sherman certainly never utilized the backs out of the backfield. Hopefully lazor shows tannehill this in film. moreno is great in the pass game
     
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  11. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Pretty sure both McCain and Tripp played before Freeny. There is also no way Fede isn't on the team (barring injury), especially with Dion Jordan not counting against the roster for four weeks.
     
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  12. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But Freeny is a core special teamer. That is what concerns me. I think McCain and Tripp are competent enough to take his role.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    they did, they both played next to Misi on some reps, McCain looked real nice next to Misi to..he has the burst to come across the formation on the back and make the play behind the Los, I watched him do it from def end and at Sam.
     
  14. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I just rewatched the game and here are my thoughts.

    The runningback that impressed me the most was Orleans Darkwa. All of the other running backs seemed to leave yards on the field and not squeeze the most out of the plays. Heck on one play that looked like an outside run to the left, Lamar Miller runs it straight towards the three hole into defenders. Plus Orleans did a good job blocking as well.

    I don't understand people's obsession with Binns. Another game he looks like he should be cut. I understand that he is 6'3", however he just doesn't look that good at his job.

    Brady Quinn looks a lot more comfortable than Seth Laboto.

    I think the coaching staff has failed Dion Jordan. He doesn't have the explosion or fluidness anymore. His arms and legs are HUGE! I will never understand why they decided to go this route. Maybe it will pay off in the long run. it is not paying off in the short run.

    The Dolphins 1st half tackling problems were Louis Delmas. Yes Wilson had the flashiest missed tackle. Someone should tell Wilson that he isn't Troy Polumalu and wrap up every time. However every other missed tackle was by Louis Delmas.

    The pass rush in this game was a lot better than last week. By all players really.

    Sam Satale cannot run block.

    Daryle College is just a smidge better at run blocking than Sam Satale. College is lucky that Thomas looked so bad so people forget about what a poor job at run blocking he did.

    McCain looks so athletic. I look forward to the Dolphins bulking him up and slowing him down.

    FEDE! Nuff said. Just kidding. When he learns how to play his position well, watch out.

    Miami has six wide receivers worthy of a roster spot. When was the last time I could write that without laughing?

    Matt Moore looks to be worth a $4 million back up.
     
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  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Have you seen McCain play special teams? He has looked really good in both games.
     
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have to admit to missing on the evaluation of Dallas Thomas, I thought he could play at this level, however I did have a better grade on turner than I did Thomas coming out so I'm hopin I got one right.

    I can't stand what both staffs did to Dion..I would advise him to drop the extra weight whiles he on vacation, take that 5 weeks and slim it down....please.

    From some inside club info, it would behoove him to take the weight off..

    I was totally against this staffs direction of the player and nothing I've seen makes me think they were right.,

    How about Dion Jordan continuing to say, " I guess they brought me here to rush the passer, so that's what I'll do".... Not what I wanted to hear post draft and still don't..

    Let this kid go back to his natural weight..if he put on 3 to 5 lbs of muscle I would be stoked on that frame, I'm positive that 2olbs is mostly fat that just looks good on his perfect frame.
     
  17. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Both Tripp and McCain have been playing STs.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO, Fede and Tripp have definitely made the roster. 100% sure. The chances for the other two look pretty good, but I wouldn't say 100% yet.
     
  19. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    What was the result of the play?
     
  20. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I agree...I also believe very few are objective when it comes to looking at his play. Ill admit I see alot more good then bad...which isnt objective.
     
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  21. Dolphans Unite!

    Dolphans Unite! Banned

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    I think the issue is that Tannehill is still in the stage of development in which he isn't yet able to look at the number of defenders down the field and then realize that a later read in the progression is open. He's focusing on whether the first, then the second, then the third (etc.) reads are open, and moving through the progression, rather than seeing a number of defenders in an area of the field and then realizing that there must not be any defenders left to cover one of the other reads (in this case the back in the flat).
     
  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wish we could get gifs of the four plays that McCain made..the one in the fourth quarter where he beat his man out of a three point and got to the Qb was a very good play..
     
  23. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    In this play the DT was coming hard (you can see him getting just past the blocker, QB had to get rid of it and redirecting to find the RB... Not enough time. It is agenda driven "reviews" with static pics to attempt to make a point, useless.
     
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  24. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It was a completion. My guess is that RT went through his progression and thought he saw enough room to complete it to Sims. He was right. I'm not going to criticize him for not jumping to the what is most likely his last read. You'll see QBs who have been in a system 5 plus years do that just b/c they have so much experience, but that's not a reasonable expectation at this point. I won't call that a bad read and I certainly won't call it lucky.

    As for some of the other RT criticisms mentioned in this thread:

    I agreed on the rollout pass to Wallace. I thought that was clearly the wrong read.

    The curl to Hartline may not have been as open as Wallace and you point that out in film, but Hartline has been such a consistent safety net in that situation that I wouldn't call it a mistake. It was just a great play by the DB. Over the last two seasons we've seen that connection completed the vast majority of the time.

    I also don't think it's a given that the other pass to Sims that Matthews caught was such a bad decision. Even after the tip that pass had some zip. I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that it would have been picked. I could easily see that just being another one of the couple hundred completions that RT had last season where he zipped a pass into a tight window. On the broadcast I couldn't see if he had another better option, but since it seems likely that Matthews ran the wrong route, that's at least one option missing. RT may have just done the best he could out of a bad play. Maybe you have him throw it away, but it's not unreasonable to let him trust his arm either.

    As for the fumble, that wasn't a good play. You'd like him to hold on to the ball. But McCoy made a great play and was on him very quick. Reality is that bad things will happen in those situations more often than not.

    And on several viewings, I agree with Wallace that the long pass was well placed. I think without the PI he gets there and that that PI is called 9 out of 10 times.

    Overall I was pleased with RT's play in this game. I wouldn't call it lucky or characterize it as a stretch of bad decision making. In fact, I would argue that RT had more bad luck than good luck in this game. It certainly wasn't a perfect game, but he was sharp.
     
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  25. pdaj

    pdaj Well-Known Member

    I'd argue that Hartline didn't run the curl route as crisply as he has in the past. I don't think he's quite at 100% yet. Before in the injury, he stopped on a dime when running the curl route.
     
  26. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Watched the post up in Club and I concur with what you've said.

    I certainly didn't see a lot of negatives from 17 , and think the ball to 11 was well thrown and the tipped pass RM caught would have been completed to Sims if it had not been tipped. My take is that if or when the O lines play becomes a true positive we'll see major production from Tannehill. Nothing made me discouraged from yesterdays game for him.
     
  27. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Question here on this. Sims seemed to be the first read of the play design... and he had his man and quickly pulled the trigger for a solid 9 yard gain.

    Do you believe that he should have looked to the flat first based on a pre-snap read or something? Or that he should have turned down his first read even though he had him and kept looking at other options?
     
  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Damn near exactly what I was thinking, on pretty much every point. Although I'm not positive this experiment with Dion Jordan is a failure yet, but I can certainly see the logic of those that do.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He might of caught that if he extended his arms and hands, he's likes to catch that pass with the cradle catch.
     
  30. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Dion Jordan experiment is a salvage experiment gone awry. It is salvage because they tried to salvage the value of #3 overall pick who at that price should be your best player at position, and he is clearly not, and they experimented to make him useful. And it has gone awry because they attempted to make a lineman out of him when he was clearly best suited as a LB.
    Complete failure for #3 overall pick and the organization.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think you're thinking of it a lot more linearly than a quarterback or a coach does.

    The idea is to read the defense and to have an understanding of where the weaknesses will be based on the defensive movements and presnap alignments. In this case based on presnap alignment and post-snap movement he could have known that the most effective throw he could've made against that deep shell defense was a well timed outlet to the flat. Whereas rafael believes that's something only a veteran who has been in the same offense five years would be expected to do, I do not share that belief. I believe pointing out that this was Tannehill's second preseason game in a new system is certainly valid, but trying to say only a guy with five years experience in a specific offense knows to do that is a bit ridiculous, IMO.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    By the way Pro Football Focus gave Tannehill a -1.6 grade for the game.

    But I'm sure they're just biased too.
     
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  33. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    What was the down and distance there?
     
  34. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Ok, so you do believe he should have looked to the flat based on the presnap read...

    That's fine. Was just curious what your thoughts were on what the process should have been to have lead him to throwing the ball to the flat...
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Not based on the presnap read, no.

    Based on a combination of the presnap alignment, knowledge of the play, and the post-snap movement.

    People think a "read" is one player, like you check to see whether that guy's open and if he's not you move to a different guy. I've not found this to be the case. The first "read" is straight up the field, reading the safety movements and the middle of the field. That's what tells you where you're rotating. I think he could have read the defensive movement and skipped to the flat pass. It wasn't his most egregious error of the evening. He completed the pass. But it was a little more dangerous than it had to be.
     
  36. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Did the fumble hurt at all or is that strictly throwing?
     
  37. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    The only caveat I would add is that Moore is worth it relative to any other current options. IMO Moore is a good QB and I'd rather overpay a bit for a good QB than get a bargain on a bad QB. Now I do think Moore will be expendable if we could find a find a good young QB that fits the offense better, but I just don't know of any that fit the bill and are available (and this late won't be).
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's his Pass grade, which is also -1.6. The fumble probably went into that yes, but I believe that's only worth a -1.0, so even excluding the fumble he's in minus territory for the game.

    Just to put this into perspective, out of 59 quarterbacks that took at least 25% of their team's snaps in Preseason Week 3, Tannehill's -1.6 grade ranks #51-52. If you took away the -1.0 for the fumble (which really there's no reason to), the resulting -0.6 would rank #43 of 59.
     
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  39. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya I was thinking it'd be 1.0 compared to some of the other grading they do. Is there a way to find out how they got to the -1.6? I just got the premium sub but can't find that.
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We've heard some whispers that hickey was a dick in his last position, but if he aquires great talent I will forgive him for being a pric.

    I like to hear the players with the most snaps had the best grades.
     

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