It's been long acknowledged by Heat fans that LeBron played terribly in that Mavs final. And I saw Section126 criticizing LeBron's play a lot this season, basically saying that the team needs LeBron to be the player he is and he's not showing up at times.
Those 77 games at 38mins a night while posting a 29+ PER just weren't enough. Even if he did lead them in minutes, points, rebounds, and assists. Not enough. And even though he did all this while his running mate sat out one game every three nights. LeBron no-showed like a slacker.
You understand that you also have to have a "legendary" postseason to reach the finals...right? And yeah..what did i say that wasn't accurate? I said the Heat should have won three in a row. Now that is my opinion. If Lebron was the Lebron of 12 thru 14'..they win that mavs series. He gagged. No elegant way to say it. He was awful in that series. Now that...is not an opinion.
You can't quote stats and then say that Wade sat out 1 of 3 nights. Heat played 102 games. Wade played in 74 of them. Since you are into stats...Lebron was a horrific defender this year. By choice. I said it all year, and tracked his synergy numbers. They were awful. So lets not play the "he gave so much" card.
Pretty sure Ck was talking about the regular season...in which Wade sat out 28 out of 82, which is actually a bit worse than 1/3. Wonder what the Heat's record is if LeBron sat out like that. Guess we could use your win share stuff there. Or maybe observe the end of Game 1 vs the Spurs. I like how you said that I'm into stats and then didn't provide any. So anyway, he's a fine defender. Fine enough that in his case your beloved win share metric is #2 in the League. I get that people are upset that he left...but this dude logged the most minutes and was the most efficient player on a team that had its #2 guy on a maintenance program during the reg season. The nitpicking is ridiculous. It's pretty clear to me that it's driven by people being upset he chose Cleveland. If you think he no-showed here and there, how do you describe the rest of the team's performance this season? I'm not even sure what your point is. Other than to tear down the Heat's best player of the past four years simply because he isn't on the team any more. Do you think he played well enough to win vs the Spurs and just didn't have the help he usually does?
So the designated dnp's matter but the postseason games...don't? Gotcha. I have been quoting stats all year. People have "opinions" and just don't care. I am not tearing down anybody. You asked me if he played well enough to win...well...his counterpart won Finals MVP...so the obvious answer is..no. His scoring was fine...but having more TO's than assists was a killer.
Him being #2 in win shares is not an opinion. Seeing that he's that high up, his defense, however bad or not bad it was, didn't drag him down that list. That's why I said it was fine. I just don't get your point in all this. That LeBron wasn't that good this season? Is that it?
Stephen A. Smith had some interesting comments about that Mavs final, he said Wade's confidants blamed the series on him because he was too busy trying to get a dazed and confused Lebron into the game rather than taking over himself. It should also be noted that if Wade doesn't drop 32 points against the Spurs in San Antonio that series probably would've been over, not to mention Ray Allen's miracle 3 in a game that Lebron largely played like crap in. He was great down here no question but he also had a lot of help.
Not taking sides and I haven't read previous posts, but is this a blanket statement? If you're talking about this past postseason the Heat had a cakewalk to the finals. Including the mentally weak #1 seed.
I know some of you guys have decent NBA sources - hearing anything on the Cavs' front regarding a Wiggins for Love swap?
LeBron should be criticized for his defense this year. He was downright bad at times, mediocre most of the year. And on the minutes, he was on pace for a career low in minutes until Kevin Durant started scoring 40 points every night while Westbrook was out. Then LeBron realized that KD was running away with the MVP race so he publicly lobbied for more minutes, which Spo gave him. Then at the end of the year his camp complained that he was "worn out" from too many minutes.
My point is that he had a LOT of help these last 4 years, and Cleveland has a ways to go to duplicate that help. Getting Kevin Love is a great start.
I don't know anybody with that organization, and I never developed any connection with anybody in Lebron's entourage, although I know somebody that is close personal friends with his personal trainer.
No they were great overall but when a team doesn't win the Finals I don't think they can be considered great, 4 Finals in a row does put a team in the legendary run category for sure though. But this years team wasn't great, the East was weak and they got demolished in the Finals you can't claim greatness for this year's team.
So they're either legendary for making 4 Finals in a row, or they're not great because they lost the most recent Finals. Which is it? By the way, the Lakers and Celtics teams that made four Finals in a row also went 2-2 in those Finals. Are those teams disappointments?
No team that has ever lost a finals is a "great" team for that particular year. I am referring to the entire run. (the 4 years) That team was an all-timer. And as far as microwave dynasties it might be right up there with the very best ones.
I think Jordan's Bulls kind of ruined reasonable expectations. He played six full seasons out of eight from 91-98. They made the Finals in each of those six and went 6-0 once they got there. I don't think we'll ever see that degree of dominance happen again.
So where does this Heat run rank in the last 20 years? Teams (or versions of each team) in that span - Houston won 2 Chicago won 3 Lakers win 3 Spurs win 4 in 9 years Lakers win 2 (Finals 3 straight) I'd say behind Chicago and Lakers 3-peats and then if you can count a 9-year run for the Spurs as one version, behind them. Ahead of Houston for sure. That Lakers team that won 2 is an interesting one. If you expand it further, the 88-90 Pistons are an interesting comparison, too.
I think the point is that this "nitpicking" isn't something new. This isn't some reaction to him leaving or people being bitter b/c he left. The complaints or "nitpicks" were being discussed all along during the last four years. So the claim that these are just being mentioned as an attempt tear down a player b/c he left are unfounded. In fact the only reason they're being mentioned at all now is to dispute the revisionist claim that James had no help while he was here. People seem to only remember that last series. It's true that James was one of the few consistent players in that last series and he had less help than he enjoyed previously. But that doesn't change the fact that his defense declined this past season and that there were times over the past four years when he wasn't consistent and was propped up by a very good supporting cast.
According to ESPN, they plan to sign Wiggins this week. I'm not sure how that would affect the trade, but by league rules, they'd have to then wait 30 days before they could officially trade him. They could theoretically have a handshake deal and then wait a month for it to be official, but that seems strange.
Fair - was there much roster turnover in their 3 in 5 year span from '03-'07? I guess Parker and Ginobli weren't huge factors for the first one with Robinson still there. So just Lakers and 2nd Bulls' 3-peat?
Going by some of the logic in this thread, the Broncos werent/arent a great team since they got dismantled by Seattle, right? .................................. Its as if a lot of non-heat fans want us to feel like and say "we are now garbage because Bron left", and the sentiment isn't even slightly shared..... so it makes them angry. Its all good though. Some people are just in for a rude awakening.
Spurs were a great team last year when theh lost. If the Jordan/Pippen Bulls overlapped the Shaq/Kobe Lakers would one not be great?
Their run is legendary, if they could somehow make the Finals this year it would be on a completely different level but thats a bit far fetched. If Lebron had returned it would be almost a certainty that barring injury they would have made 5 straight and that is unreal.
I wouldn't say that Denver team was great. They got humiliated in the Superbowl, they had a great regular season but they are not an all time great team. You have to win a championship to be considered great.
You wouldnt say denver was/is great? Wow. Lmfao. Tell that to the record books they just literally destroyed. What a ridiculous stance to take. Greatness and championships are not mutually exclusive and its Beyond foolish to think otherwise. I guess Marino wasnt great either.
@AlbertRandom1 49m Earliest trade dates for Heat players: Cole and Hamilton anytime; Ennis 8/14/14; Napier 8/17/14; most others 12/15/14; Birdman 1/15/15. @AlbertRandom1 50m Only Cole, Hamilton, Ennis and/or Napier can be traded before the season starts; combined salary among all four is $4.6M. @AlbertRandom1 50m If the Heat sends out less than $9.8M in salary in any trade, can take back only up to 150% + $100K in salaries. @AlbertRandom1 50m Dwyane Wade reportedly has a no-trade clause. Luol Deng reportedly has a 15% trade kicker. @AlbertRandom1 50m Earliest first round pick Heat can trade is a conditional 2017 pick (on condition that Cavs receive Heat’s 2015 pick). Albert Random @AlbertRandom1 50m I might’ve started w/ this http://bit.ly/1pUTTMi , moved to this http://bit.ly/1odpLHj . RT @berkeley223 can u explain what u would've done @AlbertRandom1 49m Yes. Most first round draft picks earn 120% of their rookie scale amounts. RT @sydneysdad1 that's the 120% rookie scale option media talks? @AlbertRandom1 49m But since rookie scale amount stays on the cap until signed, better to not sign such a player until after cap space is used up. @sydneysdad1
I'd place the Bad Boy Pistons above LeBron's Heat. They didn't go to 4 straight, but their competiton was tougher. And they had to beat MJ's Bulls every year. 88-89 - Lost in the Finals to the Showtime Lakers in 7. 89-90 - Champions - Beat the Showtime Lakers in 4. 90-91 - Champions - Beat the Trailblazers in 5.
it was 87-88, 88-89, and 89-90. Their first championship where they swept the Lakers, Magic was injured and missed a game in the series. Kareem was DONE. That was a diminished Laker team. Their second championship, was against a bad Blazers team with 1 hall of famer. The Heat beat OKC with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. Then Beat the Spurs. If you are counting, they beat at least 5 Sure Fire Hall of famers, and a total of 8 Potential Hall of Famers.
LeBatard saying that Riley texted LeBron multiple times during the first week of free agency to get his opinion on free agency but that the texts were never returned and that LeBron's crew was "problematic" While on one hand, it should have been obvious that something was up, I don't know what Riley could have done about it. No choice but to proceed as if he was coming back. What was he going to do, renounce his rights?
