A Closer Look at Philly's Offensive Philosophy

yup, excellent observation, Great word to describe that lateral quickness of James, "unusual".... it jumped out the other day at me and I was like WHOA!!!

 

Kelly and Lazor had Nick foles use his average athleticism in play design way more than Sherman had Tannehill use his above average athleticism...makes no sense.

Glad he's gone..

 

And I would argue it wasn't the players on offense or the scheme..dude is just great, creator of offense all by himself.

 

Seattle could have won a title with half the QBs in the league. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, P Manning, E Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Newton, Luck, Kaepernick, Stafford, Cutler, Tannehill, Palmer, and Wilson makes 16...

Russell Wilson is a decent QB but please don't be fooled into thinking he's the reason for his team's success, while throwing 25 times per game.

 

Yeeaah right. You guys act like you've never seen a QB scramble around and make plays before. Like standing in the pocket, reading the defense and throwing accurately on a consistent basis is small potatoes compared to what Wilson does. It's nonsense.

 

At 14.4 pts per game in the reg, and 13.3 in the post, yeah they just needed someone who didn't turn the ball over needlessly. Stafford ... borderline. Everyone else, yeah. Not to take anything away from Russell as I really like him and hope he does become elite for selfish reasons (dynasty team) but that defense though

 

I think you said it in that first sentence, 13-14 PPG. When you have a defense like that and a viable running game, it's easy to play it safe. In fact, playing it safe is the best option. Guys like Stafford, Romo, Cutler, with bad defenses have to force the issue b/c the pressure is on them to put up 24-28 PPG. Wilson can put up 16-17 points and more often than not it'll be enough, he only throws 25 times per game. Tannehill has thrown 25 times or less once in his entire career, the Jets game where he was knocked out in the first quarter. The level of pressure on Wilson to make plays for his team isn't even comparable to what most of the better QBs in the league face on a week to week basis.

 

Their OL was at least as bad as Miami's, but instead of just saying, "all we can do throw short passes", they put defenses on their heels by running options with the QB and limiting his passes. Their per rush avg. was almost as bad as Miami's yet they stuck with it to keep the pressure off their young QB. I love Wilson but the fact is that he was asked to only make a few plays per game. To his credit, he often made those plays, but IMO RT made far more plays. Unfortunately, RT was basically asked to make almost every play or the offense stalled. Seattle did have a better D, but they were also helped by the extensive use of the running game on offense. I believe Miami's D would have been good enough if the O had been maximized. But that was the difference. Seattle's coaches helped their O by masking their deficiencies and highlighting their strengths. Miami's coach's offensive ingenuity was limited to throwing quicker passes.

 

Can't measure what Wilson does..situational football expert...A sense of urgecy on every play...

 

No offense DJ but to me when I hear you can't measure what a guy does....to me it means he doesn't do much and his supporters need a way to justify their support.

 

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lol
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And you act like putting together 100+ passer ratings is easy so long as you don't have to throw the ball more than 30 times. Except it's not. There's a reason no quarterback has ever put together two consecutive 100+ passer rating seasons to start out his career.

It's amazing that somehow this is turning into a situation where Russell Wilson's contributions are immeasurable and just subject to emotional guesswork. What a hock of total bullsh-t that is. The man has set RECORDS for passing efficiency. He brought his team back twice in the playoffs and put them in position to win at the end of the game as a ROOKIE, and followed that up with a Super Bowl title in his second year, both playoff runs coming off the back of 100+ passer rating seasons which oh by the way has never been done in the history of the NFL.

/immeasurable

 

Haters gonna hate.

 

He may have the best statistical start to his career of any QB ever?

 

coulda swore you predicted 12 wins last year lol.

 

I gave GM a short answer because I think his stance against Wilson is nonsense and arguing it with long worded rebuttals is nonsense.

But if you want to go there, he has the deadly combination of being one of the most efficient passers the league has seen ( If not the best) from a Qb in his first two years, aka, he doesn't make mistakes while completing his passes at an efficient rate, AND!!! he's the best playmaker at the position in the league right now..and no one can argue with those two points, unless they wanna look silly.

When I say you can't measure, I mean I would be willing to bet he leads all other qbs in clutch plays when protection breaks down..every time protection breaks down, for Russell Wilson the play begins, for our Qb for example, it's over..you can't measure that type of impact on the game.

If you ask me long term who are the elites, Russell is elite..he's approaching top 5 right now if you have to win one game.

Don't have any idea where the lack of respect is coming from..

 

Ah great, we've turned this into another Russell Wilson debate thread.

I'm discontinuing the subject, personally. When he's in the Hall of Fame y'all can call me and apologize.

 

Isn't this fact the reason why we should just end this silly debate.

 

You would think....

 

It's the percentage measuring how often pressure got there in that specific category. I'm inferring that from their comments and that it doesn't add up to 100%(which would suggest a distribution of when pressure occured).

Here's their comments:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/06/20/qbs-in-focus-tendencies/2/

 

There are statistical treatments that need to be done to that data that would be a hell of a lot easier if they posted those results as a table rather than pictures. I'm not sure I feel like doing it. The most obvious is they're simply stating what percentage of a player's drop-backs resulted in a pressure in such and such a time range without considering at all how often the player held the ball in that time range.

If all the data were laid out I think you would find that for the number of times Tannehill actually held the ball 2.6 seconds or longer, Tannehill faced a higher pressure percentage than all but a few quarterbacks.

I think what is particularly notable is the 2.6 to 3.0 second range. Only 15.3% of Tannehill's throws came in the 2.6 to 3.0 second window, yet 10.1% of his total drop-backs resulted in a pressure at 2.6 to 3.0 seconds.

 

They've got numbers for that as well:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/TTT.png

Tannehill had relative to the rest of the league a below-average percentage of drop-backs where he held the ball more than 2.6 seconds, I don't think that can be true.

 

It's true BECAUSE he had a low percentage of drop-backs where he held the ball 2.6 seconds or longer. He didn't hold the ball long very often, but when he did he was pressured consistently because the OL couldn't hold their water.

 

Yes he did those things. Did he have to do those things though? That's the question. Their opponents score 14 points a game. In the playoffs, with sudden death, sure. But Kaepernick almost beat them if his pass was a foot higher. That defense of Seattle shut down two premier scoring teams in the playoffs. 15 pts from Brees, 8 pts from Peyton. Two of the best of all time. In the NO game Russell did ... nothing basically (yes I know conditions weren't ideal).

Russell did those things. Did he have to is the question. Could Flacco win on that team? Kaepernick? Lesser play by Kaepernick has gotten SF pretty far. Although SF has a better Oline, their defense isn't was good IMO. Matt Ryan? Hell Ryan Tannehill?

This coming from a huge Russell fan. I want him to become elite. I want him to score 25+ fantasy points week in and week out (selfish reasons). But I also saw a team where, maybe they still win it all with a lot of other QBs. That said, I think Wilson is awesome and a lot of people might be discounting what he does because we took a QB in the same draft ... higher. Just a little.

 

I went ahead and did it anyway.

According to them Ryan Tannehill was pressured at 2.6+ seconds on 13.9% of his drop-backs. Also according to them he only held the football 2.6+ seconds on 39.9% of his drop-backs (according to the Signature Stats section of their subscription-only section). The resulting percentage of the former divided by the latter was 3rd highest in the league.

He didn't hold onto the football very long, but when he did...he was pressured.

Only Geno Smith and Robert Griffin faced pressure more often on the occasions they held onto the football.

 

Wilson makes his share of mistakes just like every other QB. He doesn't make a whole lot of them, most of them probably go unnoticed if you're not seeing the whole field/coaches tape, and he's rarely in a spot where he HAS to make a play so I can see how you'd be so wrong w/o realizing it.

Yeah he's efficient, good for him. That doesn't make him elite. And some of that efficiency comes from scrambling for a few yards, making a short throw, playing it safe etc, when a better QB would have made a chunk throw down field to a receiver that Wilson either didn't see or chose not to throw to. Again, you'd need to study coaches tape to know the difference.

His style of play is geared towards being cautious and avoiding mistakes, at the expense of throwing lasers into tight windows down the field or even staying in the pocket long enough for plays to fully develop the way QBs do. That's his game and there's nothing wrong with it but to confuse that with superior play making ability is just plain naive.

 

I guess the Seahawks have some magic formula then, if you think 58 TD passes in his first two seasons all went to guys who were just by themselves in the endzone. Our coaches gotta study that tape, eh?

 

I remember reading on here that Lazor wouldn't be using the no huddle. Chip is basically the king of the no huddle, he even gave Belichick some pointers on how to perfect. I really don't know how similar our offense will look to Kelly's.

 

Is this one of the 58?



Better make it 57 then

 

Seahawk fans notice them. First season spent over half of it discussing benching Wilson and a lot of last season was a discussion of what is wrong with the passing game and why isn't Wilson stepping up.

Winning the Superbowl does help, however now there is a discussion of if he is worth 25 million a year.

 

your saying that Rusell Wilson is not an elite playmaking Qb?


Tell me your not saying that.... he's shown to be one of the most efficient anyone has ever been at the position in their first two years..and he's the best playmaking Qb in the game..

Dont compare him now to manning and Brady..how bout we do just a passing efficiency rating for all of their first two years.

 

I'm not ready to label him elite yet. He's very good. The best playmaker, as in make something out of nothing? I'll leave that to Big Ben for now.

Not taking anything away from Russell. But to me, elite can carry a team on his own. Maybe he can, we just haven't seen it yet. Elite to me, with a crappy defense, no run game and so-so wide receivers, will still get his team to the playoffs and threaten.

Brady is an excellent example of someone who did just enough his first years and developed into a great QB. You can't compare Brady/Manning to Russell. Before 2004 DBs were basically allowed to butt rape receivers down the field. PI is now called when you so much as sneeze on the WR. Very hard to compare. Think about it. Nobody threatened Dan's records until Peyton cried like a baby after a playoff loss and they changed the rules. Then he immediately goes and breaks Dan's single season record and then Brady breaks that one, and then Manning breaks it again. Before that nobody smelt it for 20 years, closest anyone got was Favre. He got within striking distance of Dan's 2nd most TDs record. But that's what Brady and Manning played with before 2004. All of the other rules freeing up the middle of the field make it easier on QBs now too.

 

Yes, as in extending the play, breaking the pocket when protection breaks down, finishing impact out of nothing, yes, Big Ben is right there, but Wilson is very precise in his playmaking, to call it naive to say that he is a supreme playmaker at the position is a bunch of bologna sammiches.

 

By the time Brady became a "great" QB, he was done winning Super Bowls. He won 2 with game manager numbers and won another one with pretty good numbers. The records came later. This point isn't particularly relevant to the conversation, but it's fun to make.

 

I think you can argue that they did. I think that if Wilson had been drafted by Miami that he would have performed less efficiently than RT did for us the last two years. That's not to say that I don't love Wilson's game, I really do. In fact, DJ and I were among the few who argued before that draft that Wilson was a good bet to come in and be that franchise QB for us. But I believe that there are some things that RT does better than Wilson and there are some things that Wilson does better than RT and I don't believe that Sherman would have done nearly as good of a job as Seattle did of utilizing those skills. RT is a much better passer, particularly for the types of passes that Sherman required, than Wilson. I believe Wilson is a good passer, but that he's a level below RT in that regard. I think that it's likely that in our offense Wilson would have been forced to make far more plays from the pocket and that he would have made fewer than RT did. I think Wilson could/would have escaped the pressure a few more times but would have been told by Sherman to trust the system and pass into really tight windows rather than escaping as often. I don't believe that Wilson would have been given as much of an opportunity to utilize his very good decision making on the perimeter, been protected as much by the running game or benefited from the impact the read-option has on the defense like he was in Seattle. All of those things helped Wilson be the incredibly efficient QB that he has been the last two seasons. That was Seattle's magic formula. They did a fantastic job of maximizing Wilson's considerable skills and not forcing him to carry the team 100% of the time.

 

True, but the Great QB was a once in a lifetime helmet catch away from 19-0. They didn't get it, but don't take that away from him. He was that close to the greatest season ever. 99 out of 100 Tyree doesn't make that catch. Luck for us Phin fans, that was #1 out of 100. Winning a superbowl is a team effort of course. But I wouldn't go so far as to say, Brady's great period wasn't enough to win a superbowl. Technically they didn't win it, but I'm not using that Tyree catch against him. Most exciting Super Bowl in recent memory. I lost my voice when Plaxico caught that TD

I think that's what separates Brady from Manning IMO. I think Manning has prolific numbers but cannot dissect great defenses. The no contact rule in 2004 came about because Manning cried about New England's defense in the playoffs. I think Brady is better at navigating tough defenses, just my cursory observation.

 

You guys don't want to follow Philly's philosophy. That means losing lol.

 

What's naive, IMO, is your definition of play making.

 

you must be talking about the throws themselves as "plays" and that's fine, I get it, in this case I used "playmaker" as in when protection breaks down..

Very efficient passer + Best playmaker at the position= best start ever for a Qb.= not how you described the young Qb.