The flaw in your logic is that Philbin felt like he could go to Ireland about Cogs. He did so with a strong opinion on Cogs' status on the roster. Clearly they did have talks about personnel. Philbin voicing such a strong opinion suggests that Philbin's voice has mattered before, and that Philbin felt like he could play a part in decisions. Clearly the HC and GM had conversations about personnel. Philbin clearly felt like his voice matters...so it probably does.
Let's also not forget we kept Randy Starks. We were told he hated Philbin and would never come back, yet he came back much cheaper than expected. No offense Disgustipate but you were just owned in this thread.
That makes no sense. That would be like saying you only argue with me because you've changed my mind before.
We aren't working together at building an organization. What makes no sense is Philbin getting shut down and ignored over and over again...and yet still trying to sway Ireland. What you're arguing is that Philbin's opinion has never mattered when it comes to personnel. To say that about an NFL coach to me is crazy.
That qualifier of us working together or not doesn't matter. Your stance is that a person wouldn't keep trying if he was constantly shot down. You act as if Philbin was repeatedly shot down by Ireland. Maybe he wasn't, because maybe Philbin didn't go to him all the time trying to get rid of player after player as has been assumed (without any evidence to do so).
If he was truly motivated by the "no one else to play" mentality, he never would have asked for Incognito to be released. I am fairly confident he would have been unable to play him if he was released. Similarly, if he felt so strongly about his duty to play the best players he would have wanted to keep guys like Marshall, Bush, VDavis, etc.
The only player we know he wanted gone that you just mentioned was Marshall. And let's not act like there wasn't a reason for that.
There was a reason for wanting Marshall gone. And I don't have a big problem with that. But that reason likely would have been trumped by the "obligation to play the best players" if that is really Philbin's primary motivation. I find it hard to believe he felt compelled to start Incognito every single week simply because he was the best he had at that position, but wanted to jettison Marshall who was also quite clearly the best player we had at his position.
So...you're saying that an NFL head coach has no say in personnel he didn't want on his team? That's ridiculous. (part of a HC's job is to help with personnel decisions.) What's more ridiculous is that you used one story/occurence to establish an absolute rule about how a big organization with several important people makes decisions. Talk about oversimplification.
Um...ok...sure. The accusation is that Philbin getting rid of players instead of dealing with them, so I bring up the time he actually did want a player gone and the GM said no. But that's unrelated?
The accusation is that Philbin wanted them gone and made them gone because that is apparently the extent of how Philbin knows how to deal with a player. The only evidence there is, says Philbin couldn't get players off the team he didn't want.
You do remember the reason we have Philbin and not Fisher...right? I mean you are aware there was a power struggle because the coach and GM weren't on the same page? Yes, I'm ridiculous because I'm basing my opinion off the only facts we have but you guys aren't ridiculous for basing your opinions on literally nothing other than "coincidence". Puh=leeze.
Only evidence there is says, "player". To put it on the other players is a leap. If you see me hug a man, and that is the only time you have on record of me hugging anyone, it is not a good conclusion to say that, "I only hug men." We also have evidence of Vontae's trade and how Ireland and Philbin discussed how he was not in their long term plan.
He didn't want to keep Incognito, though. We have legitimate reports he wanted Incognito gone and was denied that wish. At that point he's in your roster so you might as well play him.
You have no evidence to say Philbin wanted all those players gone. So before you lecture me about evidence, look at your own argument that was essentially made up out of thin air. We do know there was a power struggle because Ireland & Philbin weren't on the same page. That happened. And "player" is not the only evidence there was. Cogs was named, numerous times.
my argument is that you are making a jump in conclusion. I just pointed out another scenario that was just as plausible as the one that you created and was just as grabbed out of thin air. We also do not know when the power struggle happened and for all we know that it could have started because of the Incognito incident.
Look, here's the post you started in on me over: There's no reaches in that. There's no grabs. There's a statement of facts as we know them and questions based on those facts. I never stated Philbin did or didn't want those players on the team. I'm merely stating it doesn't add up, because it doesn't. Regardless, even if I had made a definitive statement about Philbin's intentions it would still be based on more evidence then the counter, which you aren't taking to task even though its a significant grab.
